Horns of a dilemma, moral obligation?

[Duncan]

I found out some information about a local church leader that could, if true, get them released and I know someone in the past who got exed for it. The thing is though there is one piece of information I don't have and wouldn't have access to but if if found it they could face serious consequences churchwise. That last piece of the puzzle could mean it's nothing or something really big. It isn't anything illegal and no one is in harms way but should I say something to the Stake President? I think he would be interested in knowing and could find out the one piece of information I don't have-which, again, if it's true then heads could roll or not, I don't know. Should I tell what I know to the SP? 

[blackstrap]

Unless you have personal direct knowledge   , no.   

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, blackstrap said:

Unless you have personal direct knowledge   , no.   

Not from them orally but legal documents they created, which, if that last piece of info is known may indicate an ongoing situation

[gav]

I have heard it said that it is not our calling and responsibility to "confess other people's sins" but I don't know what that piece of advice would be worth in this situation...

[Calm]

You said no one in harms way…not sure what that means.  Why are you concerned if no one is being harmed?  Not rhetorical question, trying to understand what is at issue.  I understand you are trying to keep it vague, but it’s too vague imo to give you appropriate advice.

[Duncan]

51 minutes ago, Calm said:

You said no one in harms way…not sure what that means.  Why are you concerned if no one is being harmed?  Not rhetorical question, trying to understand what is at issue.  I understand you are trying to keep it vague, but it’s too vague imo to give you appropriate advice.

it's not like someone running an illegal daycare. or human smuggling or an abuse situation. This situation, potentially, could and has led to excommunication in the past or membership restriction of some kind at the very least.

[blackstrap]

Financial hijinks ??

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

it's not like someone running an illegal daycare. or human smuggling or an abuse situation. This situation, potentially, could and has led to excommunication in the past or membership restriction of some kind at the very least.

Could you go to them personally and find out, maybe there is a story that will help clear things up? Things that come to light can be a great thing, maybe this person needs some help and really wishes someone would call them out so they can get some help.

[Duncan]

18 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

Financial hijinks ??

marital! and the cover up of it

Edited December 26, 2022 by Duncan

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Duncan said:

marital! and the cover up of it

Ugh….difficult subject.  Lose-lose situation.

Maybe list pros and cons of each action and then pray about what seems to be the best solution from that to see if confirmed by the Spirit.

Or speak hypothetically in vague terms to the one you would report it to in order to see how they feel about it if you are pretty sure they won’t pressure you or get angry if you decide best not to say anything.

[rpn]

When someone offends us, we have scriptural duty to go to THEM first to try to resolve it.  When the meeting is finished send a letter describing what happened during the meeting, the documents and evidence you provided the bishop, the responses, what you asked him to do,  and how you left it with him.      If you still think you need to after having discussed it with the bishop,  (and having giving him a week after receiving your written mailed letter), THEN go to the SP and  take a copy of your letter describing what happened during the meeting, copies of all the documents to give to him.    (Follow up the SP meeting with the same kind of letter which you will then send to the Area Presidency if you feel inspired to do so.   And then to the First Presidency.  (again accompanied at each level by the follow uip letters and documentation.   At that point everyone will know what you know and it is no longer your concern.

[manol]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Maybe list pros and cons of each action and then pray about what seems to be the best solution from that to see if confirmed by the Spirit.

Imo this is great wisdom.  You can give each course of action a thorough mental trial run, more than one if necessary, and see how it feels. 

 

[The Nehor]

Leave the poor polygamists alone.

[CV75]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:37 PM, Duncan said:

I found out some information about a local church leader that could, if true, get them released and I know someone in the past who got exed for it. The thing is though there is one piece of information I don't have and wouldn't have access to but if if found it they could face serious consequences churchwise. That last piece of the puzzle could mean it's nothing or something really big. It isn't anything illegal and no one is in harms way but should I say something to the Stake President? I think he would be interested in knowing and could find out the one piece of information I don't have-which, again, if it's true then heads could roll or not, I don't know. Should I tell what I know to the SP? 

Is it possible to have a conversation with the church leader you are concerned about (could make some money off it! j/k)? But really, maybe a private conversation. I'm assuming both he and the SP know you well enough.

[Tacenda]

And for Duncan's sake, I wonder if this person would go after him for breaking up a marriage or something like that.

[Duncan]

Just now, Tacenda said:

And for Duncan's sake, I wonder if this person would go after him for breaking up a marriage or something like that.

well, funny you should say, as it involves a breakdown in a marriage, but no I doubt he would know who informed the Stake President! 

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

well, funny you should say, as it involves a breakdown in a marriage, but no I doubt he would know who informed the Stake President! 

That's a good thing. Thus, don't go to him personally. Which was something I suggested, to go to him personally. Don't want you in between that mess!

Edited December 27, 2022 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's a good thing. Thus, don't go to him personally. Which was something I suggested, to go to him personally. Don't want you in between that mess!

I think it's best for the SP to get involved and that situation, not me! I emailed him and told him everything and sent some documents and he said that it's something to look into and he thanked me for telling him. It's not illegal but depending on the situation, has led to someone I know years ago getting exed from the church for the same sort of thing-but that person wasn't a leader in the church so who knows what will happen, but not my call!

Edited December 27, 2022 by Duncan

[MustardSeed]

I would never get involved in something like that unless it affected me personally.  

[John L]

15 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think it's best for the SP to get involved and that situation, not me! 

But you got involved. In a matter that was none of your business. 

15 hours ago, Duncan said:

I emailed him and told him everything and sent some documents and he said that it's something to look into and he thanked me for telling him.

What a big man you are. Do you realize your Stake President wishes you would of manned up and not done anything about the "situation?" It was none of your business. 

15 hours ago, Duncan said:

but not my call!

But you made it your call by emailing the Stake President. You should do some research into Scientology or the Jehovah Witnesses to learn how they are encouraged by leadership to rat out their friends. I think you'll find what they do to their friends and family under the direction of their brethren, is no different than what you just did. 

[Duncan]

36 minutes ago, John L said:

But you got involved. In a matter that was none of your business. 

See something say something, I was waffling on what to do on a situation that is currently ongoing-

 

40 minutes ago, John L said:

What a big man you are. Do you realize your Stake President wishes you would of manned up and not done anything about the "situation?" It was none of your business.

How do you know what he thinks? It's none of my business about what happens to the people involved, next steps

 

41 minutes ago, John L said:

But you made it your call by emailing the Stake President. You should do some research into Scientology or the Jehovah Witnesses to learn how they are encouraged by leadership to rat out their friends. I think you'll find what they do to their friends and family under the direction of their brethren, is no different than what you just did. 

So we allow sin to continue then, nobody cares, it's all meaningless. A 15 yr bawls his or her eyes out to the leaders, all the while, they are doing something multitudes worse?  I won't follow your advice and research what other organizations do. It's not my call if they should be exed or released or what happens

[Dario_M]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:37 AM, Duncan said:

I found out some information about a local church leader that could, if true, get them released and I know someone in the past who got exed for it. The thing is though there is one piece of information I don't have and wouldn't have access to but if if found it they could face serious consequences churchwise. That last piece of the puzzle could mean it's nothing or something really big. It isn't anything illegal and no one is in harms way but should I say something to the Stake President? I think he would be interested in knowing and could find out the one piece of information I don't have-which, again, if it's true then heads could roll or not, I don't know. Should I tell what I know to the SP? 

What is the point of that? If it is not something illegal or something that would harm others then it is not on you too interfere with this matter. You don't even have all the info so you can easily make an mistake and spread lies. And that is against the commitments. 

With other words. Leave people alone or so. And mind your own buss. 😖

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

I am sure you would not agree with me. But you need to understand that spreading misinformation about somebody is against the 9e commitment. Did you not know that? 

That is how it is basically. ✝️

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dario_M

[rodheadlee]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:15 AM, Duncan said:

marital! and the cover up of it

MYOB

[rodheadlee]

Yeah it's no wonder you're divorced. You have no idea if the people involved repented and were forgiven or not. You're sticking your nose in where it does not belong.

Edited December 29, 2022 by rodheadlee