President Hinckley: "Bring Your Good" and Conversion

[MiserereNobis]

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

Quote

President Hinckley: Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service.

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

[Calm]

There is definitely seems to be an assumption that any good you have will naturely fit into our faith if it isn’t already here and you will recognize anything that conflicts as false/not good.  I am not sure if he just wasn’t thinking of religious beliefs such a veneration of Mary or having a family shrine or wearing a cross because he referred to the good that they do, which sounds like actions, so maybe he was referring to charitable works and family practices like prayers, etc., but that seems too tight of an interpretation to me.
 

He seemed a very open man to me, so personally maybe he didn’t see an issue with such things though he might have had an expectation that those ‘goods’ would be eventually replaced with others as converts became more knowledgeable.  Perhaps someone more familiar with Pres Hinckley’s words over the years knows of other things he has said that can help explain the quote above in more detail. 
 

My brain has been turned off this week so I may be wrong, but wasn’t Pres Hinckley the one who said our form of wearing the cross was our lives…if so, it would seem to suggest that you (speaking generally) would find something to replace veneration of Mary such as our belief in Heavenly Mother (though that feels so much more passive to me) or family history work instead of veneration of ancestors/family shrines, etc. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Calm

[Rivers]

You should bring your Eucharist wine to our sacrament meetings.

[MiserereNobis]

9 minutes ago, Rivers said:

You should bring your Eucharist wine to our sacrament meetings.

If only it was the wine from the Wedding at Cana...

Edited September 11, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[MiserereNobis]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

He seemed a very open man to me, so personally maybe he didn’t see an issue with such things though he might have had an expectation that those ‘goods’ would be eventually replaced with others as converts became more knowledgeable.

This would make sense to me. Like I said, my understanding of conversion is that one leaves non-compatible beliefs at the door.

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

you (speaking generally) would find something to replace veneration of Mary such as our belief in Heavenly Mother (though that feels so much more passive to me)

I'm obviously not well versed in the LDS view of Heavenly Mother, but from what I gather, it is very much more passive than the Catholic veneration of Mary.

ETA: I don't think an LDS view of Heavenly Mother and a Catholic view of Mary are compatible.

Edited September 11, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[Bernard Gui]

The best motivation to be baptized into the Church is when the Holy Spirit witnesses the truth of the Book of Mormon to a person.

[MiserereNobis]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The best motivation to be baptized into the Church is when the Holy Spirit witnesses the truth of the Book of Mormon to a person.

No disagreement there. But that doesn't address President Hinckley's statement.

[The Nehor]

Bring all the good you have.

Wait, you think this is good?

DIE HERETIC!

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

President Hinkley’s words can simply be interpreted as meaning, “bring everything with you from your religion that’s in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.” And since the extra-Biblical/extra-Apostolic practice of venerating Mary is something that prevents individuals from gaining a testimony of the restored gospel and joining the Lord’s one true and living Church, strictly speaking the veneration of Mary as an object essential to worship can’t be understood as being something that’s good. Whatever isn’t true isn’t good, no matter how good and benign it may seem. But simultaneously it’s also true that your deep love and respect for Mary can indeed be brought with you because the Latter-Day Saints are taught to deeply love and respect the Lord’s mother, but not to take that love and respect for her so far that she becomes an object essential to proper worship, 

12 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look! And I looked as if to look upon him, and I saw him not; for he had gone from before my presence.

13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of ^aNazareth I beheld a ^bvirgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

14 And it came to pass that I saw the ^aheavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?

15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the ^acondescension of God?

17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.

18 And he said unto me: Behold, the ^avirgin whom thou seest is the ^bmother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the ^aSpirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a ^achild in her arms.

21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the ^aLamb of God, yea, even the ^bSon of the Eternal ^cFather! Knowest thou the meaning of the ^dtree which thy father saw?

22 And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the ^alove of God, which ^bsheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the ^cmost desirable above all things.

23 And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most ^ajoyousto the soul. (1 Nephi 11)

Edited September 11, 2022 by teddyaware

[Meadowchik]

I see my atheism as a good, Mormonism in full will contradict that, and won't add to it and would detract from it.

President Hinkley's invitation does indeed make some some major assumptions. And in consequence, they do appear to gloss over the real work of human collaboration when we have opposed values. It's not an easy task but I'd say it's worthwhile and the social institutions which undertake it will be a positive force for good.

[Jerry Atric]

9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

You can't. First, mormonism teaches the "goods" you're referring to are the very small amount of "truth bits" left in your apostate religion. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what we're taught.  We have the full truth. We have the true and living gospel. We have 100% authority from God. Starting from around 50AD to 1830, there wasn't a Christian church on earth, just apostate churches. Very few truths remained during that time. That's the truth Hinckley is talking about.

Think of it like this. After the original apostles were killed,  God removed all priesthood authority from earth. Men were left to figure out religion without any divine help from God. Today's "Christianity" has a lot of Paganism engrafted into it. We're are here to pave the way for the return of Christ. No other church can do this. We are Latter-day Saints. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Jerry Atric

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

You raise a valid point. To use the words that Smac might use, I’ll “have to think on it.”

I have repeatedly quoted the statement in question from President Hinckley. I note that the sentiment didn’t originate with him; as I recall, President George Albert Smith expressed it as well, and it stems back to Joseph Smith. These would be my early thoughts regarding your comment: 

In context, the quote from President Hinckley strikes me as pertaining to that which not only is good but is true as well. 

So how does this relate to beliefs about the mother of Jesus?  To answer that, I might draw a comparison to a false criticism leveled with some frequency against the Latter-day Saints, namely that we place Joseph Smith alongside Christ as an object of our worship and veneration. 

We are (at least, I am) inclined to earnestly and vociferously deny that criticism. No one other than the Father Himself — and certainly no mortal individual — does or should occupy that place in our esteem. 

But this should in no way diminish the respect, admiration and love we do feel for the prophet of the Restoration for what he accomplished. I’m inclined to declare with the author of the passage in our scriptural canon, written in the wake of Joseph’s martyrdom, that he lived great and he died great in the eyes of God. 

The point of my comparison is that we do esteem the Virgin Mary as one who is worthy of our fullest respect, admiration and love, but who should not be placed in our esteem alongside Deity as an object of worship, a bestower of divine gifts, etc. One might say that the invitation to “bring with you all the good you have” applies to a sublime respect, admiration and love for Mary, while  our “seeing if we can add to it” might include a corrected and clarified conception of the role of Mary in the gospel panorama. 

Undoubtedly, you will disagree with me in concept, and that’s fine; I can with good will recognize our disagreement as a sincere and honest one. It comes down to our respective individual understandings of what is both good and true. 

[Tacenda]

I would have got more out of attending and interacting if there were more of converted members bringing in the good they have. It was a first time for me at around 30 to hear of giving all my burdens and placing them at the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ while being in a RS meeting on a Sunday that I'll never forget when a woman who grew up in the south taught it that way. She taught it in such a way that it is permanently placed in my soul. 

Please and hopefully they continue to do that, I'd maybe go back into activity.

[CV75]

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

You may be missing the good faith expressed in the bolded part part below:

"President Hinckley: Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service."

No judgement. Either "the people" who share the good they have with missionaries (and members of the Church in general), and who consider what might be added by the missionaries, decide to unite with the Church of not.

How might we add to the devotion you have to the Blessed Virgin Mary? You describe practices and observances, which I'm supposing must be rooted in a much deeper spiritual commitment to her, rooted in an even more fundamentally essential and significant spiritual experience with God. So, how might you obtain this new level of personal experience with God when you bring your devotion to the table with our missionaries? That is the kind of "adding" I believe President Hinckley is referring to. If we can give you  a nudge toward obtaining that deeper personal spiritual experience with God, you are welcome to it, and mission accomplished!

[MiserereNobis]

9 hours ago, teddyaware said:

President Hinkley’s words can simply be interpreted as meaning, “bring everything with you from your religion that’s in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.”

Yes, that's my point. His statement appears misleading and is often used to downplay what happens when one converts to your church. I am in no way implying that he said it intentionally misleading or that it used intentionally misleadingly. It just always stuck out to me when I've read it here many times over the years.

Edited September 11, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

You can't.

My point exactly. So the quote is kinda meaningless.

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In context, the quote from President Hinckley strikes me as pertaining to that which not only is good but is true as well. 

I agree that this makes the most sense.

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The point of my comparison is that we do esteem the Virgin Mary as one who is worthy of our fullest respect, admiration and love, but who should not be placed in our esteem alongside Deity as an object of worship, a bestower of divine gifts, etc. One might say that the invitation to “bring with you all the good you have” applies to a sublime respect, admiration and love for Mary, while  our “seeing if we can add to it” might include a corrected and clarified conception of the role of Mary in the gospel panorama. 

This also makes sense.

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Undoubtedly, you will disagree with me in concept, and that’s fine; I can with good will recognize our disagreement as a sincere and honest one. It comes down to our respective individual understandings of what is both good and true. 

Yes, exactly. Thanks for your respectful reply -- I've always appreciated how members of this board have treated the Catholics very well, which is certainly why now three of us (with the addition of St. Bonaventure) stick around to learn and share.

Edited September 11, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

From what I know of the Catholic Church (Faith) devotion to Mary would suggest admiration, which any Christian would love and revere the Mother of Jesus Christ, who according to scripture, “is a woman bless above all others” (to paraphrase). However, as scripture teaches, prayer should always follow the example Christ gave to all, “Our Father in Heaven”, if “prayer is what is taught”, this would be a problem. However, I think you would agree, the reason many pray, or talk to Mary, is to seek God’s blessings. In short, all heavenly blessings come from God the Father, and then (again scripture) at the request of Jesus Christ. As the Book of John states, in three different chapters, “The Holy Spirt, speaks only the words of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ speaks only the words of the Father”. Therefore, everything we receive from our Father in Heaven. Also, if you came to believe that The Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints, is indeed the restored Gospel again upon the Earth, what would it matter in the Eternities. Also worry not, you will know Mary from eternity to eternity, as she will be there.As a covert, once I was converted, I would have happily give up my former Faith, but I did not have too, I was still a Christian, as would you. More than one Pope have taught, is that Mary is co-equal to God. No one is co-equal to God, unless you speak of “The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. 

[Teancum]

14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

I have responded to this quote before, but thought a thread devoted to it might be good.

Here's what I said:

I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

How is my conversion to your faith taking the good I have and letting you add to it? It appears to me that a conversion to your faith means letting go of the things I thought were good but were actually contrary to your beliefs, and then adding your beliefs to what was left. In other words, the only "good" I bring is that which is already LDS.

I'm ok with that as a definition of conversion. That's what it definitely means to convert to Catholicism -- you gotta leave your non Catholic beliefs at the door. But President Hinckley's words seem to try to hide that fact in order to appear softer or more inclusive or more ecumenical. How can I bring non-LDS "goods" to my conversion to being LDS?

The remarks are really rather patronizing and as you note, they often do not work. Anyone who has been a devote believer in their own tradition will have to leave a lot behind to join the LDS Church.  Really most converts have little religious background or if they do have some religion, they are not all that devout.

[Teancum]

13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The best motivation to be baptized into the Church is when the Holy Spirit witnesses the truth of the Book of Mormon to a person.

How is that comment relevant to the  opening post?

[Teancum]

7 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

You can't. First, mormonism teaches the "goods" you're referring to are the very small amount of "truth bits" left in your apostate religion. I know that sounds harsh, but that's what we're taught.  We have the full truth. We have the true and living gospel. We have 100% authority from God. Starting from around 50AD to 1830, there wasn't a Christian church on earth, just apostate churches. Very few truths remained during that time. That's the truth Hinckley is talking about.

It was a pretty crappy plan for Jesus to come to the earth, set up a church, allegedly give his priesthood to the leadership of that church and have it all gone in a few short decades?  What really was the point an that? Even when I was and LDS believer I always thought that did not make sense at all.  And it doesn't.  And if there was priesthood brought, and if it was needed, then it really likely was not lost at all.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Teancum

[Saint Bonaventure]

What you've written, MiserereNobis, resonates with my experiences with my Latter-day Saint family members (the adults, anyway).  We're all trying to be very open to the good that one another brings, but it can just feel too narrow sometimes. I think my SiL has been alluding to the quote you mention, as she's said she's glad for the good I can add to the family, but....yeah....that good doesn't include me offering a prayer at meals at her home (something about the sign of the cross and an electric chair), and she's made it clear that she doesn't want me talking religion when her children are within earshot. She did accept herbal tea from me, so maybe that's a start.

My BiL, has been different, though. He's come to Mass a few times and has apologized for the "Church of the Devil" stuff. He drinks Mountain Dew and listens to Aerosmith when his wife isn't around, and those are "good" things in their own way. 

Life's just messy, and while a mixed-faith family isn't the same as a convert to a church, I couldn't help but notice the parallels. I hope my in-laws don't feel that I'm rejecting the good they're trying to bring. Something to mediate on during Adoration this week. 

 

[manol]

16 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In another thread, I responded to a quote from President Hinckley where he said:

"Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service."

... I have an issue with President Hinckley's statement. It appears very open and inclusive. However, I doubt it as a practical matter. It seems rather rhetorical. This is something I've commented on before. He says to bring the good that I have and let the LDS church add to it. One of the "goods" I have is my devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She has been with me from the beginning of my conversion to Christianity to the present moment. In a short post I cannot explain how much Our Lady has done for me. She is so good to me. I would not be Christian without Her intercession.

Yet, if I were to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I would have to leave that behind. No more rosaries. No more candles lit to Her Honor. No more prayers to Her. No more devotion to Her.

Let me suggest an alternative interpretation of President Hinkley's "let us see if we can add to [the good you already have]":

You could also REMAIN Catholic, fully retaining your relationship with the Virgin Mary, and ADD TO your personal beliefs whatever you find good within the LDS Church.  For instance if something feels right to you about the "nobody gets cheated" aspect of baptism for the dead, add "nobody gets cheated" to your personal beliefs, even if the mechanics of how that works are not clearly taught within Catholicism.  If something feels right to you about the "plant the seed" teaching on how to recognize what is of God in Alma chapter 32, then add that to your beliefs.  If the LDS practice of not only praying for the sick but also actively blessing them feels right, then there you go.

And just ignore anything within Mormonism which does not speak peace to your soul, because that means it does not "add to" what you already have.  

I assume you don't mind if various Mormons and ex-Mormons borrow from Catholicism here and there... like the idea of advanced spirits on the other side, aka "Saints", being able and happy to assist us mortals is one I have incorporated.  Likewise the practice of having a few memorized prayers just a thought away which can very quickly shift one's energy away from the fearful and into the peaceful.  And imo the Catholic idea of "having Christ form within us" is not incompatible with the LDS idea of becoming "the same manner of man or woman that Christ is." 

Edited September 11, 2022 by manol

[CV75]

7 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I see my atheism as a good, Mormonism in full will contradict that, and won't add to it and would detract from it.

President Hinkley's invitation does indeed make some some major assumptions. And in consequence, they do appear to gloss over the real work of human collaboration when we have opposed values. It's not an easy task but I'd say it's worthwhile and the social institutions which undertake it will be a positive force for good.

This is where the "let us see" recognizes the real work involved (and he does use the word, "work"). He is talking about the spirit and essence of the work. This leaves room to  collaborate on remaining congruent beliefs. But the OP is about conversion and adopting expanded primary beliefs, which can alter secondary beliefs.

[CV75]

25 minutes ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

What you've written, MiserereNobis, resonates with my experiences with my Latter-day Saint family members (the adults, anyway).  We're all trying to be very open to the good that one another brings, but it can just feel too narrow sometimes. I think my SiL has been alluding to the quote you mention, as she's said she's glad for the good I can add to the family, but....yeah....that good doesn't include me offering a prayer at meals at her home (something about the sign of the cross and an electric chair), and she's made it clear that she doesn't want me talking religion when her children are within earshot. She did accept herbal tea from me, so maybe that's a start.

My BiL, has been different, though. He's come to Mass a few times and has apologized for the "Church of the Devil" stuff. He drinks Mountain Dew and listens to Aerosmith when his wife isn't around, and those are "good" things in their own way. 

Life's just messy, and while a mixed-faith family isn't the same as a convert to a church, I couldn't help but notice the parallels. I hope my in-laws don't feel that I'm rejecting the good they're trying to bring. Something to mediate on during Adoration this week. 

 

I think these examples have more to do with personality and Fowler's "Stages of Faith" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._Fowler (or similar models) than the Church's more formal vision of missionary work.