Former Primary Teacher sentenced to jail/probation for child sex abuse during sleepover

[smac97]

Here:

Quote

A man who formerly served as a teacher for children with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was sentenced Thursday for sexually abusing a child while hosting sleepovers at his home.

Sean Sund will serve 364 days in jail followed by four years of probation.

The sentencing comes after Sund pleaded guilty in June to one count of sex abuse of a child. As part of the plea deal, other charges against Sund were dropped.

In 2018, an 8-year-old girl reported Sund had sexually abused her "multiple times" during sleepovers he would host at his home with children from his church.

During the investigation, Sund told police that he often had children over to his home and had sleepovers where the children would occasionally sleep in his bed. He also admitted to two sexual abuse incidents similar to the ones the victim described to police.

"Multiple" sleepovers.  "Multiple" instances of abuse.

I am somewhat cloistered in my ward, having been in it for 17 years.  In all that time I have never heard of the ward authorizing / endorsing / facilitating / allowing a sleepover.  I am, instead, quite confident that any such request would be immediately denied.  

The news item above is unfortunately (but not surprisingly) opaque on whether these "sleepovers" were a ward activity, but it sure seems to go out of its way to suggest that.

What is your experience?  I've never heard of a ward-sponsored/authorized "sleepover" of children at Primary teacher's house.  Is this a thing in other wards?

My sympathies to this man's victims.  The biblical imagery involving millstones comes to mind every time I come across an article like this.

Thanks,

-Smac 

[webbles]

We discussed this case before. They really aren't sleepovers. He was babysitting the kids for mothers in the ward. One woman would occasionally sleep over as well. The "sleepovers" were not church related at all.

I've never heard of church sleepovers unless we are talking about campouts.

[JustAnAustralian]

There was some discussion a few months ago 
 

 

From the discussion there, it looked like he held sleepovers that happened to include his primary class (as well as other neighbourhood children).

[MustardSeed]

We have had sleepovers in the past.  Boys have a lot of campouts, girls have had overnights at my lake house, no men allowed. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

Here:

"Multiple" sleepovers.  "Multiple" instances of abuse.

I am somewhat cloistered in my ward, having been in it for 17 years.  In all that time I have never heard of the ward authorizing / endorsing / facilitating / allowing a sleepover.  I am, instead, quite confident that any such request would be immediately denied.  

The news item above is unfortunately (but not surprisingly) opaque on whether these "sleepovers" were a ward activity, but it sure seems to go out of its way to suggest that.

What is your experience?  I've never heard of a ward-sponsored/authorized "sleepover" of children at Primary teacher's house.  Is this a thing in other wards?

My sympathies to this man's victims.  The biblical imagery involving millstones comes to mind every time I come across an article like this.

Thanks,

-Smac 

Not Primary, but YM and YW’s quite a few sleepovers over the years, my mom told me of some we had at our house when she was a leader before I was old enough to remember.  I participated in one myself, back when I was a sophomore or junior in 1974 I think.  But the dad and brothers vacated early on.  Wait…Achievement Girls with my daughter’s group had a sleepover now I think of it.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Calm

[smac97]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not Primary, but YM and YW’s quite a few sleepovers over the years.  I participated in one myself, back in 1974 I think.

We were doing a lot of dumb / lax things in the 70s and 80s that, in hindsight, created opportunities for predators to ply their trade.

Regarding sleepovers, I guess I had in mind the last 20 years or so.  Anyone?

Thanks,

-Smac

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

We were doing a lot of dumb / lax things in the 70s and 80s that, in hindsight, created opportunities for predators to ply their trade.

Regarding sleepovers, I guess I had in mind the last 20 years or so.  Anyone?

Thanks,

-Smac

Yes, like I said, boys have always done camp outs and still do, girls do overnights as well. Not as much as we used to do . 

[bluebell]

14 hours ago, smac97 said:

We were doing a lot of dumb / lax things in the 70s and 80s that, in hindsight, created opportunities for predators to ply their trade.

Regarding sleepovers, I guess I had in mind the last 20 years or so.  Anyone?

Thanks,

-Smac

In the early 2000s the YW in our then ward would sometimes have sleepovers at a leaders house as an activity.  When I was in YW in the 1990s we would go on trips and sometimes stay at people's homes with our leaders.  This was true for temple trips (the temple was 5 hours away) and also true when we drove to GC one year.

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

In the early 2000s the YW in our then ward would sometimes have sleepovers at a leaders house as an activity.  When I was in YW in the 1990s we would go on trips and sometimes stay at people's homes with our leaders.  This was true for temple trips (the temple was 5 hours away) and also true when we drove to GC one year.

A few years ago, the Young Women in the ward I was in in Arizona had to do their summer camp overnights by sleeping at a few of the homes of the leaders because the camp was closed due to fire danger.  But the Church Handbook provides instructions on how those situations should be handled:

Quote

Male and female participants and leaders should have separate sleeping accommodations. However, a married couple may share the same room or tent. Each youth should have his or her own bed or sleeping bag.

In most cases, a youth may not stay in the same tent or room as an adult unless the adult is his or her parent or guardian. An exception may be made if there are at least two adults in the tent or room who are the same sex as the youth.

If adult leaders and youth share other overnight facilities, such as a cabin, there must be at least two adults in each facility, and they must be the same sex as the youth.

All Church overnight activities must include at least two adult leaders.

But for Primary activities, the handbook says overnights are not allowed.

When I was 16 years old (in the 70's), the youth in the stake I was in in Arizona held fundraising activities sufficient to charter a full-sized Greyhound bus for a two-week trip to tour the church historical sites at Nauvoo, Palmyra (we watched the Palmyra Pageant), Sharon, Vermont, and some national historical sites in Boston and Washington D.C.  We had to be at least 16 years old to go on the trip, and there were young men and young women between 16 and 19 on the trip, as well as our leaders. We slept in National Guard Armories and similar facilities along the way (we were keeping it cheap), and most of the time we ate food prepared by ourselves or our leaders.  We had good leaders with us, of course, and the sleeping arrangements were carefully monitored.  Those kinds of activities would not be allowed these days, not because of the overnight situations, but because of the budget and travel restrictions. 

One of the things about that trip still sticks out in my mind:  We were scheduled to tour the White-House in Washington D.C., but for some reason it was closed on the day we were there, so instead of going to the White-House we went to the Smithsonian, but we only had one and a half hours of time to spend there, and we were set free to explore on our own.  I managed to see all the space stuff in the Air and Space museum and the dinosaur bones in the Natural History museum in 1.5 hours.  I think I also managed to see some of the art exhibits too.  But I regret that we didn't plan to spend a whole day at the Smithsonian, I would have loved doing that.

Edited September 3, 2022 by InCognitus

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

A few years ago, the Young Women in the ward I was in in Arizona had to do their summer camp overnights by sleeping at a few of the homes of the leaders because the camp was closed due to fire danger.  But the Church Handbook provides instructions on how those situations should be handled:

But for Primary activities, the handbook says overnights are not allowed.

When I was 16 years old (in the 70's), the youth in the stake I was in in Arizona held fundraising activities sufficient to charter a full-sized Greyhound bus for a two-week trip to tour the church historical sites at Nauvoo, Palmyra (we watched the Palmyra Pageant), Sharon, Vermont, and some national historical sites in Boston and Washington D.C.  We had to be at least 16 years old to go on the trip, and there were young men and young women between 16 and 19 on the trip, as well as our leaders. We slept in National Guard Armories and similar facilities along the way (we were keeping it cheap), and most of the time we ate food prepared by ourselves or our leaders.  We had good leaders with us, of course, and the sleeping arrangements were carefully monitored.  Those kinds of activities would not be allowed these days, not because of the overnight situations, but because of the budget and travel restrictions. 

One of the things about that trip still sticks out in my mind:  We were scheduled to tour the White-House in Washington D.C., but for some reason it was closed on the day we were there, so instead of going to the White-House we went to the Smithsonian, but we only had one and a half hours of time to spend there, and we were set free to explore on our own.  I managed to see all the space stuff in the Air and Space museum and the dinosaur bones in the Natural History museum in 1.5 hours.  I think I also managed to see some of the art exhibits too.  But I regret that we didn't plan to spend a whole day at the Smithsonian, I would have loved doing that.

I would love to see the Smithsonian some day. I feel like church was a different level of fun in the past for youth than it is now.

I don’t blame the church for that, but it still makes me sad.

(my husband and I are on our way to England tomorrow and we will be going to the British Museum while we are in London. I’m so excited but already have anxiety about everything I’m going to miss because there is no way for us to see everything). 

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, smac97 said:

We were doing a lot of dumb / lax things in the 70s and 80s that, in hindsight, created opportunities for predators to ply their trade.

Regarding sleepovers, I guess I had in mind the last 20 years or so.  Anyone?

Thanks,

-Smac

When my grandfather was a deacon’s quorum advisor in California in the 60s he decided to take his quorum to Salt Lake to watch a session of conference. He was tired on the way there and decided to let the boys take turns driving and then let them drive on the way back. Also talked to one of his deacons who was convinced he was going to die on another trip when my grandpa suddenly turned to him, pulled his gun on him, and fired. Then he saw that my grandpa had just shot a rattlesnake at his feet.

It was a different time.

[Amulek]

21 hours ago, smac97 said:

Regarding sleepovers, I guess I had in mind the last 20 years or so.  Anyone?

Not primary, but our YW group had a few overnights at a leader's house as part of an abbreviated girl's camp this year. 

The leader's family all slept upstairs and the girls (plus the YW leaders) were all downstairs. 

I don't believe there were any concerns with respect to the arrangements. 

The only overnight events which have involved primary age kids have been ward campouts (e.g., daddy/daughter, father/son). But those always have kids with their own families.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Amulek

[Bernard Gui]

Sister Gui and I can’t remember any kind of sleepovers in adult leaders’ homes in any places we’ve lived either for ourselves or our 7 kids. This is the first time I’ve heard of it. Very, very unwise.

I took a lot of orchestra kids on long trips, but we were extra diligent in room arrangements and had lots of parent chaperones. I’m sure shenanigans went on even despite our best efforts. Years after the deed, my son Abogadissimo told us that he and his school sweetheart Preciosissima (now his wife) had their first kiss in the Victoria BC Butchart Gardens behind a  big rhododendron while I was on the other side of the bush looking at the fountain in the sunken garden. Oh well.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

first kiss in the Victoria BC Butchart Gardens

What a beautiful place for a first kiss! 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

One year and probation!!! Some attorney, and the DA (or solicitor) pled these charges down to a simple misdemeanor. They should serve his sentence with him!     

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

One year and probation!!! Some attorney, and the DA (or solicitor) pled these charges down to a simple misdemeanor. They should serve his sentence with him!     

He will get to negotiate with trying to survive while being a registered sex offender if that is any consolation. I would admittedly rather kill the sex offender lists (which are largely worthless) and up the prison time a bit in this case.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 9/4/2022 at 6:46 PM, The Nehor said:

He will get to negotiate with trying to survive while being a registered sex offender if that is any consolation. I would admittedly rather kill the sex offender lists (which are largely worthless) and up the prison time a bit in this case.

They work more often than you might know, and it is a way to rearrest, via probation violation, etc. Even if the only purpose they often serve is to inconvenience them for the rest of their lives, it is better than nothing. In Police work, we often knew them by the way they acted. Very often after the Hell they endured in prison, it is often very hard for them to make eye contact, with anyone with an alpha personality, male or female. This leads to red flags in many cases, via traffic stops, especially when they are they in a neighborhood (especially at night) to do harm to another. Also when probation officers show up without a schedule to someone’s home, if they protest too much! 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Quote

Sean Sund will serve 364 days in jail followed by four years of probation.

The sentencing comes after Sund pleaded guilty in June to one count of sex abuse of a child. As part of the plea deal, other charges against Sund were dropped.

 

Huh.  A year in jail, and some probation.  For multiple abuses, pled down to one count.  That's interesting.  And too light, IMO.  I see Sund only copped to the 2nd degree felony charge of "regular old" sexual abuse of a child.

In the 2000's, I helped put a guy behind bars in Utah for the same thing.  Also in Salt Lake City.  Also multiple abuses, also a young girl, also pled down to one count.  Also, the plea deal had the other dozen or so charges dropped.  Dude was an uncle, who babysat, so there was an "aggravated assault by someone in a position of trust" rider, which made things a 1st degree felony. 

My guy was sentenced to 5 years to life in county prison.  We attended a parole hearing at 4 years, where the judge refused parole.  Then a 2nd hearing at 5 years, where they let him out with a few years of probation.  He remains on the Dept of Corrections website as a sex offender to this day, and I see there's a fairly recent photo, so it looks like he's continuing to check in appropriately.

That was the late 2000's.  How odd that such a similar crime, gets such a reduced sentence here in the 2020's.  I wonder why Sund didn't get a full 1st degree felony charge?   Perhaps Sund's nasty specific details weren't quite as bad as my guy's. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[Tacenda]

Utah stinks as far as punishment, IMO. Here's how easily they let off the fundamentalists. https://therevealer.org/polygamy-incest-and-mormons-in-the-media/?fbclid=IwAR3uwb-JC1l9zyl19BC0ym95iUhei_BuzuQilLB-6nWVBf4GMFRdHqW9ntA

Jeremy Kingston’s trial for felony incest made headlines for many reasons, including the rarity of the conviction. For years, former members of the Kingston group sought prosecution for incestuous marriages with little success. Jeremy Kingston’s prosecution offered brief hope. Around the time of the trial, former members of the community approached Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff about incest in the community and put together a “family tree” to document the crimes, saying they had “compiled enough incest evidence to lock” up the perpetrators “for life.” But no prosecutions took place.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

Just found out a guy from my home town was found guilty of sexual abuse with several children, this was a shock since I knew him, not personally. 

https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/former-west-bountiful-mayor-lds-bishop-arrested-on-child-sex-abuse-charges

Edited September 9, 2022 by Tacenda

[webbles]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:34 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

 

Huh.  A year in jail, and some probation.  For multiple abuses, pled down to one count.  That's interesting.  And too light, IMO.  I see Sund only copped to the 2nd degree felony charge of "regular old" sexual abuse of a child.

In the 2000's, I helped put a guy behind bars in Utah for the same thing.  Also in Salt Lake City.  Also multiple abuses, also a young girl, also pled down to one count.  Also, the plea deal had the other dozen or so charges dropped.  Dude was an uncle, who babysat, so there was an "aggravated assault by someone in a position of trust" rider, which made things a 1st degree felony. 

My guy was sentenced to 5 years to life in county prison.  We attended a parole hearing at 4 years, where the judge refused parole.  Then a 2nd hearing at 5 years, where they let him out with a few years of probation.  He remains on the Dept of Corrections website as a sex offender to this day, and I see there's a fairly recent photo, so it looks like he's continuing to check in appropriately.

That was the late 2000's.  How odd that such a similar crime, gets such a reduced sentence here in the 2020's.  I wonder why Sund didn't get a full 1st degree felony charge?   Perhaps Sund's nasty specific details weren't quite as bad as my guy's. 

The evidence against him was extremely weak.  Without a plea deal, they probably wouldn't have been able to convict him.

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Just found out a guy from my home town was found guilty of sexual abuse with several children, this was a shock since I knew him, not personally. 

https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/former-west-bountiful-mayor-lds-bishop-arrested-on-child-sex-abuse-charges

The sickos are good at blending in and fooling people. Expert manipulators. A mayor and a Bishop. Sick and sad.

[2BizE]

It seems like there are so many sexual predators in the church. Just this week, another bishop was arrested for sexual abuse.  Why is the church such a magnet for sexual predators?

https://apnews.com/article/religion-utah-salt-lake-city-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-4c889c88a1f3c4e4d00502abbbefd737

[smac97]

Just now, 2BizE said:

It seems like there are so many sexual predators in the church. Just this week, another bishop was arrested for sexual abuse.  Why is the church such a magnet for sexual predators?

https://apnews.com/article/religion-utah-salt-lake-city-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-4c889c88a1f3c4e4d00502abbbefd737

From "it seems like" to "why is the church such a magnet" is a huge leap, in both logic and evidence.

First establish that the Church has disproportionate numbers of "sexual predators," then - having established that necessary premise - we can proceed with examining the "why."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

It seems like there are so many sexual predators in the church. Just this week, another bishop was arrested for sexual abuse.  Why is the church such a magnet for sexual predators?

It's men who are sexual predators and it's the planet that's full of them.