How Bad Is the Exodus?

[LoudmouthMormon]

10 hours ago, Moneymaking said:

That guy sounds like a real piece of work. Nice way to bolster an exmo talking point of the church being more worried about tithing than it is about the member. 

*shrug*.   Folks looking for offense will find it anywhere.  Dude was sharing his frustration with the rest of the bishopric.  I'm the one who told the story on a public forum, so if anyone's the piece of work, it's me.    God loves me, and you should try.

http://d2f0ora2gkri0g.cloudfront.net/bkpam2204708_pow_newlogo_web3.png

 

[Stargazer]

17 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Post-temple lunch was pretty fantastic, too! Freshly cooked crispy egg noodles topped with tender beef and veg, a side of excellent chilli sauce (OK, I had three serves of chilli sauce ...), and a peach smoothie with passion fruit bubbles.

Looks delish! 

Tomorrow's my wife's birthday, and she has specified an American cowboy-themed restaurant for her birthday meal (it's called "Smith and Western" as a play on "Smith and Wesson"). They don't serve the above, unfortunately.

[Stargazer]

16 hours ago, Thinking said:

Only the Church knows how many people have officially left, so anecdotal is pretty much what we have since the Church doesn't publish those numbers.

Anecdotes from my world:

My daughter married in the temple. She is active if you count attending 1 or 2 times per month as active. She also drinks cold coffee. My son has left the Church officially. He is gay.

My younger brother has left, though not officially. He doesn't think that part is necessary.

At least seven of my nieces or nephews have officially left or no longer attend. Some of them don't talk about it, but others have been vocal.

The three nephews who most recently graduated from high school chose not to serve missions.

I don't doubt that as we approach the end times more closely, we'll be somewhat repeating that flip-flop between Nephites and Lamanites that occurred in the Book of Mormon, when Samuel the Lamanite came to exhort the Nephites from the walls of Zarahemla. The church outside the US may be much stronger than the church inside the US in time.

My brother, who lives in the Portland, Oregon metropolitan area, reports to me that a lot of members have simply moved away from the area because of all the BLM and Antifa rioting. Reminds me of Revelation 18:4 - "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her [Babylon], my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." And there may be some members who prefer Babylon, and therefore leave the Church.

[MustardSeed]

Once again, Hamba, your experiences outshine any that I have seen.   Not only is your cafeteria food appealing to look at, but you actually HAVE a cafeteria.  Ours was closed recently, permanently. 
 

How fortunate that your area is untouched by the trends local to me, particularly with activity loss. 

[Tacenda]

25 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Once again, Hamba, your experiences outshine any that I have seen.   Not only is your cafeteria food appealing to look at, but you actually HAVE a cafeteria.  Ours was closed recently, permanently. 
 

How fortunate that your area is untouched by the trends local to me, particularly with activity loss. 

Wait, that's Hamba's temple cafeteria food? I don't think any temples in Utah have cafeterias anymore, unless I'm mistaken. And yes that food looks wonderful, I thought he just hit a restaurant on the way home. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

We live in very different worlds.

I would imagine that’s what most American saints think when they read your posts. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Not only is your cafeteria food appealing to look at, but you actually HAVE a cafeteria.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! That's the food I ate for lunch after we left the temple on Saturday. Our temple used to have vending machines, but even they are gone now.

Quote

How fortunate that your area is untouched by the trends local to me, particularly with activity loss. 

We have people who go inactive here, too, though many of them come back ... especially when we minister to them in sincere love. I think we see that pattern all throughout scripture.

A family were in sacrament meeting last Sunday who haven't been there since the beginning of Covid. I was super happy to see them. I set up an appointment to visit them in their home this Sunday. They are one of the families whom the Lord instructed me to reach out to whilst I was in the temple, in fact.

Another one I was told to check on is a migrant from Mexico (convert and returned missionary) who hasn't been to church in five or six years and who has posted on social media that he no longer believes. I reached out to him online Sunday evening, and we ended up having a great chat. At the end, he asked me to send him days/times when I'm free because he'd like to catch up in person. I'd love to believe that he's ready to come back, but only time will tell.

We also have an inactive brother in our ward who came here as a refugee two decades ago. He joined the Church about 20 years before that and even helped translate the Book of Mormon into his native language. I sent him a text a couple of weeks ago to let him know that I'm his new elders quorum president. No response. Then last Thursday I bumped into him at the shops. He immediately apologised for not responding, and I invited him to join us on Sunday for stake general priesthood meeting. He said he would, but I only half believed him. Then he showed up and sat with us! At the end, he thanked me for always 'encouraging' him. I assured him that I would never stop.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Tomorrow's my wife's birthday, and she has specified an American cowboy-themed restaurant for her birthday meal (it's called "Smith and Western" as a play on "Smith and Wesson").

I just looked at the menu. I'd go for the full rack of pork ribs with Southern Comfort glaze, followed by Biscoff cheesecake ... if I had the room!

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Once again, Hamba, your experiences outshine any that I have seen.   Not only is your cafeteria food appealing to look at, but you actually HAVE a cafeteria.  Ours was closed recently, permanently. 
 

How fortunate that your area is untouched by the trends local to me, particularly with activity loss. 

I thought there was a recent announcement to the effect that all temple cafeterias were being closed. We even had a thread about it here on this board. 
 

Added later:  OK, I found the news release:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/temple-cafeterias-closing
 

It does say that all temple cafeterias would close in early 2022. 
 

It said there were two exceptions that would require a transition period. One was Hamilton New Zealand. I thought that might have been Hamba’s temple, but I just read his post wherein he said he had his meal at a restaurant outside the temple. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I just looked at the menu. I'd go for the full rack of pork ribs with Southern Comfort glaze, followed by Biscoff cheesecake ... if I had the room!

Does it matter to you that Southern Comfort is a brand of whiskey and is likely an ingredient in the glaze? 

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Does it matter to you that Southern Comfort is a brand of whiskey and is likely an ingredient in the glaze? 

Nope.

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wait, that's Hamba's temple cafeteria food? I don't think any temples in Utah have cafeterias anymore, unless I'm mistaken. And yes that food looks wonderful, I thought he just hit a restaurant on the way home. 

Looks like you were right. 

[HappyJackWagon]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Does it matter to you that Southern Comfort is a brand of whiskey and is likely an ingredient in the glaze? 

That's an interesting question and I'm curious what kind of percentage of people would have a problem with food cooked with alcohol, coffee, tea etc. I wouldn't have a problem but I know my parents would.

I seem to remember a story about David O McKay and Rum cake.

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's an interesting question and I'm curious what kind of percentage of people would have a problem with food cooked with alcohol, coffee, tea etc. I wouldn't have a problem but I know my parents would.

I seem to remember a story about David O McKay and Rum cake.

For me it just depends.  Coffee tastes disgusting (at least it smells disgusting) so I'm a solid no on food with that in it.  I've never come up against food with tea in it but I guess it would depend on it's form.  But with alcohol it depends on how it was cooked.  If the booze is cooked off (like in most sauces) then I'm good, but if it's a baked good then no thanks.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

For me it just depends.  Coffee tastes disgusting (at least it smells disgusting) so I'm a solid no on food with that in it.  I've never come up against food with tea in it but I guess it would depend on it's form.  But with alcohol it depends on how it was cooked.  If the booze is cooked off (like in most sauces) then I'm good, but if it's a baked good then no thanks.

I know it’s a common belief that the alcohol is quickly cooked off, but I found this from the Food Network:

Myth buster

Sorry to spoil the party, but here's the real deal: Simply heating alcohol, or any other cooking liquid, does not make it evaporate as quickly as a child's allowance in a candy store. The longer you cook, the more alcohol cooks out, but you have to cook food for about 3 hours to fully erase all traces of alcohol. A study from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Nutrient Data lab confirmed this and added that food baked or simmered in alcohol for 15 minutes still retains 40 percent of the alcohol. After an hour of cooking, 25 percent of the alcohol remains, and even after two and a half hours there's still 5 percent of it. In fact, some cooking methods are less effective at removing alcohol than simply letting food stand out overnight uncovered.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/cooking-wine-does-alcohol-burn-off

Edited September 27, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[OGHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I know it’s a common belief that the alcohol is cooked off, but I found this from the Food Network:

Myth buster

Sorry to spoil the party, but here's the real deal: Simply heating alcohol, or any other cooking liquid, does not make it evaporate as quickly as a child's allowance in a candy store. The longer you cook, the more alcohol cooks out, but you have to cook food for about 3 hours to fully erase all traces of alcohol. A study from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Nutrient Data lab confirmed this and added that food baked or simmered in alcohol for 15 minutes still retains 40 percent of the alcohol. After an hour of cooking, 25 percent of the alcohol remains, and even after two and a half hours there's still 5 percent of it. In fact, some cooking methods are less effective at removing alcohol than simply letting food stand out overnight uncovered.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/cooking-wine-does-alcohol-burn-off

Well crap, no more vodka sauce for me. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's an interesting question and I'm curious what kind of percentage of people would have a problem with food cooked with alcohol, coffee, tea etc. I wouldn't have a problem but I know my parents would.

I seem to remember a story about David O McKay and Rum cake.

I don’t know the provenance of that story, but I was at lunch in a hotel restaurant in Columbia, South Carolina, with President Hinckley and members of his traveling party and personally witnessed him opting for a different dessert selection from the buffet table after his daughter realized that what he had chosen was mocha flavored and thus likely contained coffee. 
 

Clarification: I wasn’t traveling with the prophet. I was there in the city covering a temple dedication for the Church News. His personal secretary, who knew me, spotted me in the buffet line and invited me to join them. 
 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t know the provenance of that story, but I was at lunch in a hotel restaurant in Columbia, South Carolina, with President Hinckley and members of his traveling party and personally witnessed him opting for a different dessert selection from the buffet table after his daughter realized that what he had chosen was mocha flavored and thus likely contained coffee. 
 

Clarification: I wasn’t traveling with the prophet. I was there in the city covering a temple dedication for the Church News. His personal secretary, who knew me, spotted me in the buffet line and invited me to join them. 
 

Cool experience!

[Saint Bonaventure]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I know it’s a common belief that the alcohol is quickly cooked off, but I found this from the Food Network:

Myth buster

Sorry to spoil the party, but here's the real deal: Simply heating alcohol, or any other cooking liquid, does not make it evaporate as quickly as a child's allowance in a candy store. The longer you cook, the more alcohol cooks out, but you have to cook food for about 3 hours to fully erase all traces of alcohol. A study from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Nutrient Data lab confirmed this and added that food baked or simmered in alcohol for 15 minutes still retains 40 percent of the alcohol. After an hour of cooking, 25 percent of the alcohol remains, and even after two and a half hours there's still 5 percent of it. In fact, some cooking methods are less effective at removing alcohol than simply letting food stand out overnight uncovered.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/cooking-wine-does-alcohol-burn-off

 

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

For me it just depends.  Coffee tastes disgusting (at least it smells disgusting) so I'm a solid no on food with that in it.  I've never come up against food with tea in it but I guess it would depend on it's form.  But with alcohol it depends on how it was cooked.  If the booze is cooked off (like in most sauces) then I'm good, but if it's a baked good then no thanks.

Good coffee is wonderful. I drink coffee ground by monks in Wyoming that is just heavenly. During the Crusades, some folks though coffee was evil because the Muslims drank it. But heaven intervened with Pope Clement VIII, who said "it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it."

As far as alcohol in sauces.....you're getting a little bit in there, but it probably isn't very much. Anyone who gargles with Listerine probably gets as much alcohol in their system.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Cool experience!

I’ve been thinking about the contrast between what you related about President McKay (I think it’s from Greg Prince’s biography) and my personal observation of President Hinckley. It may have to do with individual backgrounds. 
 

I think President McKay was already serving as a general officer in the Church very early in the 20th century. I remember him clearly; I was in my teens when he died, but he was already in his latter 90s by then. 

The early 1900s was a time when faithful members were far more casual in their Word of Wisdom observance, which became more rigorous in later years. I know this from conversations with my parents, who were born in 1903 and 1908 respectively. 
 

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

 

Good coffee is wonderful. I drink coffee ground by monks in Wyoming that is just heavenly. During the Crusades, some folks though coffee was evil because the Muslims drank it. But heaven intervened with Pope Clement VIII, who said "it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it."

As far as alcohol in sauces.....you're getting a little bit in there, but it probably isn't very much. Anyone who gargles with Listerine probably gets as much alcohol in their system.

 

The degree to which the alcohol is burned off would obviously be a bigger issue for an observant Latter-day Saint than it would be for others. It’s like the relative importance of kosher foods to observant Jews compared to others. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I know it’s a common belief that the alcohol is quickly cooked off, but I found this from the Food Network:

Myth buster

Sorry to spoil the party, but here's the real deal: Simply heating alcohol, or any other cooking liquid, does not make it evaporate as quickly as a child's allowance in a candy store. The longer you cook, the more alcohol cooks out, but you have to cook food for about 3 hours to fully erase all traces of alcohol. A study from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Nutrient Data lab confirmed this and added that food baked or simmered in alcohol for 15 minutes still retains 40 percent of the alcohol. After an hour of cooking, 25 percent of the alcohol remains, and even after two and a half hours there's still 5 percent of it. In fact, some cooking methods are less effective at removing alcohol than simply letting food stand out overnight uncovered.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/cooking-wine-does-alcohol-burn-off

It all depends on how much alcohol, the method of cooking, and what temp you are cooking.

From the same link:

In the same study, the extent of alcohol loss depended on a couple factors:

First – how severe the heat was when applied in the cooking process;

Second – the pot’s surface area. The bigger the pan, the more surface area, the more alcohol that evaporates during cooking.

James Peterson, a cookbook writer who studied chemistry at the University of California at Berkeley, stated in his encyclopedic cookbook called Sauces:

You need to cook a sauce for at least 20 to 30 seconds after adding wine to it to allow the alcohol to evaporate.  Since alcohol evaporates at 172°F (78°C), any sauce or stew that is simmering or boiling is certainly hot enough to evaporate the alcohol.

😊

[Senator]

40 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The degree to which the alcohol is burned off would obviously be a bigger issue to some observant Latter-day Saints than it would be for others. It’s like the relative importance of kosher foods to observant Jews compared to others. 

FIxed it

[ksfisher]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Does it matter to you that Southern Comfort is a brand of whiskey and is likely an ingredient in the glaze? 

I personally avoid things such as this.  I know that what I do really doesn't make much of a difference to these companies, but I don't like the idea of my money going into the pockets of liquor manufacturers. 

[SkyRock]

56 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’ve been thinking about the contrast between what you related about President McKay (I think it’s from Greg Prince’s biography) and my personal observation of President Hinckley. It may have to do with individual backgrounds. 
 

I think President McKay was already serving as a general officer in the Church very early in the 20th century. I remember him clearly; I was in my teens when he died, but he was already in his latter 90s by then. 

The early 1900s was a time when faithful members were far more casual in their Word of Wisdom observance, which became more rigorous in later years. I know this from conversations with my parents, who were born in 1903 and 1908 respectively. 
 

Let's remember that wine wasn't banned for temple recommend holders until prohibition or around there and beer until around or after WW2.

I have talked with people who went to ward parties back in the day where the active holders of the priesthood were drinking beer.

Different times for sure, but now anyone can toke up as long as it is "medical".