God made me that way...

[Peacefully]

19 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Its interesting how people just assume that the way they see things now are the way they have always been seen.   

Western colonialism at its finest. 

I’m not sure what you mean. 

[Nofear]

5 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I just try to be kind to everyone and leave judgment to God.  

Of course. Nonetheless, we do have some judgments in place, for examples a practicing homosexual can't have a temple recommend and a trans individual can't hold the priesthood.

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Of course. Nonetheless, we do have some judgments in place, for examples a practicing homosexual can't have a temple recommend and a trans individual can't hold the priesthood.

And for what?? What's the profit of preventing or prohibiting love and personal identity? It's a net negative. Those judgments are in place--doesnt make them right--and they hurt people.

[Durangout]

“God made me that way” is simply a justification for knowingly committing sin.

 

 

 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

It's fairly well-known and well-established that LDS thought classifies homosexual behavior as a sin.  We can have a discussion about whether or not that's appropriate.  But we can't have that discussion if, every time this one sin is compared to other sins, someone takes offense. I've seen it happen dozens of time. 

I understand not wanting to compare homosexual behaviors to murder.  I try to avoid that comparison myself.  Even though I have defended such comparisons as LOGICALLY valid, they are too emotionally charged to generate much light in the ensuing discussion.  But I've also seen posters compare homosexual behaviors to other sexual sins and get the same offended response.  And here, it was compared to some relatively minor sins (greed, selfishness, laziness) and the comparison still draws fire.

Are there ANY sins that LDS commenters can use as a comparison to homosexual behaviors without offending the other side?  If not, then the problem is not with the comparison itself, but with the very belief that such behaviors ought to classified as sins. So, let's have THAT discussion instead of diverting down irrelevant side corridors of which sins can justifiably be compared to other sins. 

All I did was line up the list that was presented. 
 

I get that it’s hard though. I too am friends with people I disagree with morally. Latter-day Saints and/or murderers. No offense intended. 

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Durangout said:

“God made me that way” is simply a justification for knowingly committing sin.

 

 

 

Says the straight person.

[Danzo]

2 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I’m not sure what you mean. 

Sexual Identity is a relatively new concept invented by western societies.  You really cannot find it in historical documents.

Although all types of sexual behaviors (same sex and opposite sex) have been around since man has been around, people didn't really find it necessary to identify what "team" they were on until late 19th century.   Even societies that embraced same sex activity (The Greeks were famous for it) didn't find it necessary to choose a "team".

Its only in the modern era western society that is so sex obsessed where people must choose a "team".  Until recently, many non western societies didn't even have a term for it.

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Sexual Identity is a relatively new concept invented by western societies.  You really cannot find it in historical documents.

Although all types of sexual behaviors (same sex and opposite sex) have been around since man has been around, people didn't really find it necessary to identify what "team" they were on until late 19th century.   Even societies that embraced same sex activity (The Greeks were famous for it) didn't find it necessary to choose a "team".

Its only in the modern era western society that is so sex obsessed where people must choose a "team".  Until recently, many non western societies didn't even have a term for it.

Which explains why in the 19th century men held each other's hands, and slept in the same bed holding each other and didn't think anything of it. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

The Lord testified that there are some citizens of the kingdom of God for whom lives of lifelong celibacy or abstinence — whichever  the case might be — would be a requirement. A great sacrificial offering indeed, but one that will turn out to be much more than worth it in the end.

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19)

“He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

A comment that some may be called to such a life but we are talking about what amounts to compulsion. If you can be celibate do that. The reply of many is:

“I can’t.”
”Well, then marry.”
”But I desire another man.”
”Oh, well then you have to do it even if you can’t.”

That scripture doesn’t fit. The only people in the greater LGBT community that can take solace in this teaching are some of the asexuals, those who don’t want sex or romance or the desire for them is so weak it is easily dismissed. 

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

All I did was line up the list that was presented. 
 

I get that it’s hard though. I too am friends with people I disagree with morally. Latter-day Saints and/or murderers. No offense intended. 

I want to hear the story of you being friends with murderers.  I want to know who I'm keeping company with in your friend list.   

Edited July 18, 2022 by bluebell

[Danzo]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

“He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

A comment that some may be called to such a life but we are talking about what amounts to compulsion. If you can be celibate do that. The reply of many is:

“I can’t.”
”Well, then marry.”
”But I desire another man.”
”Oh, well then you have to do it even if you can’t.”

That scripture doesn’t fit. The only people in the greater LGBT community that can take solace in this teaching are some of the asexuals, those who don’t want sex or romance or the desire for them is so weak it is easily dismissed. 

Not Being with the person you want to be with is a first world problem. I suspect most of our ancestors are going to roll their eyes when we tell them how much we suffer 

[pogi]

35 minutes ago, Durangout said:

“God made me that way” is simply a justification for knowingly committing sin.

Actually, I think it is a healthy and critical mantra that Christian gay people need to remind themselves to maintain psychological well-being and prevent the all-too-common self-loathing and self-condemnation for who/what they are. 

Whether or not some use it to justify sin doesn't diminish from the value and truth of the statement.   

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Not Being with the person you want to be with is a first world problem. I suspect most of our ancestors are going to roll their eyes when we tell them how much we suffer 

Okay, pull up your big boy pants and marry a male.

[Meadowchik]

6 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Not Being with the person you want to be with is a first world problem. I suspect most of our ancestors are going to roll their eyes when we tell them how much we suffer 

On the other hand, they might scoff at the way some of us pedestalise suffering as if it's a virtue.

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Sexual Identity is a relatively new concept invented by western societies.  You really cannot find it in historical documents.

Although all types of sexual behaviors (same sex and opposite sex) have been around since man has been around, people didn't really find it necessary to identify what "team" they were on until late 19th century.   Even societies that embraced same sex activity (The Greeks were famous for it) didn't find it necessary to choose a "team".

Its only in the modern era western society that is so sex obsessed where people must choose a "team".  Until recently, many non western societies didn't even have a term for it.

The Greeks allowed it but only in heavily constrained ways. Attempting to live some kind of monogamous homosexual life in Ancient Greece would have been a source of shame to the practitioner except in very specific circumstances.

While the concept is new the predisposition behind it is very real.

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Latter-day Saints and/or murderers. No offense intended. 

None taken.  

[The Nehor]

19 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Not Being with the person you want to be with is a first world problem. I suspect most of our ancestors are going to roll their eyes when we tell them how much we suffer 

“You wanted to be happy? What do you think this Earth is? A vital part of some hippy dippy ‘pie in the sky’ Plan of Happiness? Grow up and accept misery.”

Edited July 18, 2022 by The Nehor

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

Actually, I think it is a healthy and critical mantra that Christian gay people need to remind themselves to maintain psychological well-being and prevent the all-too-common self-loathing and self-condemnation for who/what they are. 

Whether or not some use it to justify sin doesn't diminish from the value and truth of the statement.   

At the very least, God allows us to be knowingly made, whether by him or circumstances allowed by him and by ourselves, into creatures of weakness. Which means to me he has no problem loving us as we are, even if he wants us to become much more (like any proud and loving parent does).

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

Actually, I think it is a healthy and critical mantra that Christian gay people need to remind themselves to maintain psychological well-being and prevent the all-too-common self-loathing and self-condemnation for who/what they are. 

Whether or not some use it to justify sin doesn't diminish from the value and truth of the statement.   

This. The idea that you chose this trial through your own sinfulness is a fast road to suicide. We get back to ‘better to be in a pine box’ than slip up and fall. So when they are about to fall they go to the rope store and the rickety stool store.

[The Nehor]

34 minutes ago, Durangout said:

“God made me that way” is simply a justification for knowingly committing sin.

Also a justification for returning the defective body they were given and demanding to speak to the manager immediately about why they were knowingly given a faulty model.

Suicide.

[pogi]

42 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Not Being with the person you want to be with is a first world problem. I suspect most of our ancestors are going to roll their eyes when we tell them how much we suffer 

I don't think you are being fair, at all, with your assessment.  

It is not just about not being able to marry and have a romantic relationship with the person you want, it is about not being able to do so with the gender/sex that you are attracted to. 

That is no insignificant thing.  I don't care what world you live in, that should not be diminished and needs to be acknowledged.    We all have probably experienced rejection from a person we have wanted to be with at some point in our lives.  While that hurts, the hurt is dulled by the hope of finding someone else that we will be attracted to and want to be with.  There may be no such hope in the case of homosexual people.   That lack of hope deserves compassion and is not a "first world problem".  I think that comment is totally out-of-line.  

For those who do choose to make the sacrifice - they deserve every acknowledgment for the monumental significance of the sacrifice they have made.  I think your comment unfairly diminishes their sacrifice. 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by pogi

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I don't think you are being fair, at all, with your assessment.  

It is just about not being able to marry and have a romantic relationship with the person you want, it is about not being able to do so with the gender/sex that you are attracted to. 

That is no insignificant thing.  I don't care what world you live in, that should not be diminished and needs to be acknowledged.    We all have probably experienced rejection from a person we have wanted to be with at some point in our lives.  While that hurts, the hurt is dulled by the hope of finding someone else that we will be attracted to and want to be with.  There may be no such hope in the case of homosexual people.   That lack of hope deserves compassion and is not a "first world problem".  I think that comment is totally out-of-line.  

For those who do choose to make the sacrifice - they deserve every acknowledgment for the monumental significance of the sacrifice they have made.  I think your comment unfairly diminishes their sacrifice. 

 

This. The idea that you chose this trial through your own sinfulness is a fast road to suicide. We get back to ‘better to be in a pine box’ than slip up and fall. So when they are about to fall they go to the rope store and the rickety stool store.

Double "Like"!

[Duncan]

49 minutes ago, Durangout said:

“God made me that way” is simply a justification for knowingly committing sin.

 

 

 

or justifying your sin of judgement of people of people you don't know. How do you know people "knowingly " commit sin"? you don't

[Peacefully]

47 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Sexual Identity is a relatively new concept invented by western societies.  You really cannot find it in historical documents.

Although all types of sexual behaviors (same sex and opposite sex) have been around since man has been around, people didn't really find it necessary to identify what "team" they were on until late 19th century.   Even societies that embraced same sex activity (The Greeks were famous for it) didn't find it necessary to choose a "team".

Its only in the modern era western society that is so sex obsessed where people must choose a "team".  Until recently, many non western societies didn't even have a term for it.

I still believe there were “gay” people but because it was so taboo they wouldn’t have even thought to name their “team.” 

[california boy]

3 hours ago, Nofear said:

In many ways, I suppose I'm asking the wrong crowed. There are those that are homosexual who have heard the Savior's voice and been given comfort. I can look for it. Anybody have some links?

My relationship with Christ has been a hundred times better since leaving the Church.  His voice is much more clear without the constant stream of guilt for being gay coming from the Church.