Des News Article Re: "Under the Banner of Heaven" Mini Series

[bluebell]

17 hours ago, Calm said:

The book is a documentary.  The actual detective in charge was Terry Fox.  The two detectives and probably all the police are fictional characters in the series.  At this point I am thinking everyone is except the Laffertys and Wrights.  This is more fiction than real imo.  Kind of like the Titanic, but not quite as frictional.  Maybe Hidalgo, which presented itself as more or less true to actual events iirc, but was way off by some reports.(added:  just refreshed my memory and that is worse than Titanic, which at least actually sank…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidalgo_(film)#Fact_and_fiction )

I may have to read the book, but I am less interested in interviews from DL and RL and more from everyone else. Plus I just purged my shelves and it would have to be from the library and won’t be likely to get a copy for too long.   Hanna Searic says she is pulling material together about Brenda, hoping that is sooner than later.  

The book is annoying so be prepared if you decide to read it.  You'll want to be able to rebut some of the accusations and things that Krakauer presents as facts and you won't be able to.  

[katherine the great]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

threaten and still “men with beards” only.

 

10 hours ago, Calm said:

 I am wondering if Allen’s crisis of faith is made up.

Who knows? That family seems to have been highly dysfunctional and Ron’s ability to flip a switch and fully embrace the dark side so quickly kinda makes me go “hmmm”. Humans…

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The book is annoying so be prepared if you decide to read it.  You'll want to be able to rebut some of the accusations and things that Krakauer presents as facts and you won't be able to.  

Do you get more/any background on Brenda and the actual detectives?  A play by play for what happened with the investigation?

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you get more/any background on Brenda and the actual detectives?  A play by play for what happened with the investigation?

I read it somewhere around 2005 so I don't remember the specifics anymore.  It was an interesting and well-written book and I finished it.  I just remember it was also very frustrating at times.

[webbles]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you get more/any background on Brenda and the actual detectives?  A play by play for what happened with the investigation?

I found a copy at https://archive.org/details/underbannerofhea00krak/mode/1up?view=theater.  You can create a free account and check it out for an hour at a time. I've started reading it and so far it doesn't have much more detail.

[webbles]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you get more/any background on Brenda and the actual detectives?  A play by play for what happened with the investigation?

I read/skimmed through the book.  Only chapter 7, 8, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23, and 24 are about the Laffertys, Brenda, and the murder.  The rest is either church history or various fundamentalist groups.

Chapters 7, 8, and 13 are mostly about the Laffertys, their interaction with Onias, and their beliefs.  Chapter 13, 14, 15 have a lot about Brenda.  Chapter 15 is about the few months before the murder.  Chapter 16 is the murder.  Chapter 22 is after the murder till they get arrested.  Chapter 23 is about the retrial in 1996.  And Chapter 24 is about Dan's new beliefs.

There is hardly anything about the detectives or the investigation.  There is hardly anything about the original trials.  But there is decent background on the Laffertys and Brenda.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, webbles said:

I read/skimmed through the book.  Only chapter 7, 8, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23, and 24 are about the Laffertys, Brenda, and the murder.  The rest is either church history or various fundamentalist groups.

Chapters 7, 8, and 13 are mostly about the Laffertys, their interaction with Onias, and their beliefs.  Chapter 13, 14, 15 have a lot about Brenda.  Chapter 15 is about the few months before the murder.  Chapter 16 is the murder.  Chapter 22 is after the murder till they get arrested.  Chapter 23 is about the retrial in 1996.  And Chapter 24 is about Dan's new beliefs.

There is hardly anything about the detectives or the investigation.  There is hardly anything about the original trials.  But there is decent background on the Laffertys and Brenda.

Thank you. Very helpful. 

[Peacefully]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-04-29/hulu-under-the-banner-of-heaven-mormon-church-andrew-garfield-true-story%3F_amp%3Dtrue
 

A provocative title, but also a good read. Explains some of the thinking behind choices made, such as the fictional detectives. 

[Teancum]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:34 PM, Amulek said:

Another problem is that, in an apparent effort to stay true to the book, the showrunners have decided to keep all of these weird flashback sequences depicting the founding era of the church. I never read the book, but I strongly suspect this sort of thing worked much better on the written page, because on screen it has been pretty jarring, and not in a good (or even impactful) way. Instead, they tend to be mostly a distraction from the action taking place on screen (which is another example of the pacing problems I mentioned before). Also, the production values on the historical scenes are markedly worse than the rest of the show which serves to take you out of the story as well.

The flashback scenes are mostly annoying. They just pop up, not much context, are very short mostly and you sometimes wonder who it is in the flashback.  There were two with I assume Brigham Young.  One seemed like he was in England preaching and the other he was leaving Kirtland in a wagon stashing guns.  Huh? Who is this guy with a hat and long unruly hair? Anyone not familiar with the LDS history would wonder what the heck these flashbacks are all about.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Teancum

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

The flashback scenes are mostly annoying. They just pop up, not much context, are very short mostly and you sometimes wonder who it is in the flashback.  There were two with I assume Brigham Young.  One seemed like he was in England preaching and the other he was leaving Kirtland in a wagon stashing guns.  Huh? Who is this guy with a hat and long unruly hair? Anyone not familiar with the LDS history would wonder what the heck these flashbacks are all about.

Seriously. There's also the one with Joseph Smith looking into a hat and dictating scripture to Emma. I'm sure there are a handful of guys over on the exMormon reddit channel happy to see "the hat" make an appearance, but the vast majority of people are just going to be confused by this. There's no real context for what's happening (or why any of it is meaningful), so it's just going to be one giant WTF as far most folks are concerned.

And to make matters worse, for those of us who are informed enough about LDS history to not be confused by what's going on (i.e., Joseph translating the Book of Mormon with Emma as scribe) we are still thrown for a loop because it turns out the words Joseph Smith is dictating aren't actually part of the Book of Mormon. Instead, we end up getting a repeat of the error that takes place during the family picnic scene, where they are quoting from the Book of Mormon but actually using text from the Times and Seasons instead.

Maybe these scenes will tighten up (or, better yet, drop off) as the series goes along, but as of now they seem to be a net negative for the show.

 

[Tacenda]

There's the scene of Joseph right before they were to tar and feather him and after or before they almost castrated him, they mention something about a sexual indiscretion with a female or something, now can't remember. I wonder why no one has brought that up on this thread. Is this now a common knowledge, I thought it was discredited. 

[cinepro]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

There's the scene of Joseph right before they were to tar and feather him and after or before they almost castrated him, they mention something about a sexual indiscretion with a female or something, now can't remember. I wonder why no one has brought that up on this thread. Is this now a common knowledge, I thought it was discredited. 

That story is actually found in the scriptures, so we are sure it happened.

And by "scriptures", I mean "No Man Knows My History", which is scripture to exMos.

[jkwilliams]

39 minutes ago, cinepro said:

That story is actually found in the scriptures, so we are sure it happened.

And by "scriptures", I mean "No Man Knows My History", which is scripture to exMos.

Painting with a broad brush, aren’t you? 

[webbles]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

There's the scene of Joseph right before they were to tar and feather him and after or before they almost castrated him, they mention something about a sexual indiscretion with a female or something, now can't remember. I wonder why no one has brought that up on this thread. Is this now a common knowledge, I thought it was discredited. 

The book had that story in it.  But it is a bad sign to me if they put that story in the TV show even though it is discredited.  Both Todd Compton and Brian Hales have shown that it was most definitely made up.

The female was Marinda Johnson who later married Orson Hyde and also married Joseph Smith while Orson was on his mission.

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, webbles said:

The book had that story in it.  But it is a bad sign to me if they put that story in the TV show even though it is discredited.  Both Todd Compton and Brian Hales have shown that it was most definitely made up.

The female was Marinda Johnson who later married Orson Hyde and also married Joseph Smith while Orson was on his mission.

Thanks for the serious answer. I've probably lost respect from quite a few here, but appreciate you always being a good soul.

[webbles]

After reading/skimming the book, I can't find any obvious references to the temple, its ceremonies, and its penalties.  It isn't talked about in the murder chapter or in the earlier chapters about the Laffertys history.  In fact, the book points out that the murders were more related to Nephi and Laban than to anything else.  The Laffertys reference that story to explain the removal revelation.  And when they get a weapon to consecrate, it is to be similar to Nephi.  Oddly enough, they don't use the consecrated weapon in the murder, just a knife that Dan happened to have on him.  So I don't understand why the show would include it.

I am curious, though, on whether they'll use wording from the pre-1990s or if they'll use wording from the more recent version.

[Hamba Tuhan]

21 minutes ago, webbles said:

After reading/skimming the book, I can't find any obvious references to the temple, its ceremonies, and its penalties ...  So I don't understand why the show would include it.

I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count ...

Edited May 3, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Painting with a broad brush, aren’t you? 

Not really.

Go to any exMo forum and say "Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?"

You will get dog piled by people trying to out do each other with their praises of the book (and the idea of a faithful LDS reading it will move them to a state of ecstasy). From what I can tell, there is zero awareness that there are any problems with the book.

Edited May 3, 2022 by cinepro

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Not really.

Go to any exMo forum and say "Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?"

You will get dog piled by people trying to out do each other with their praises of the book (and the idea of a faithful LDS reading it will move them to a state of ecstasy). From what I can tell, there is zero awareness that there are any problems with the book.

Right...because "any exMo forum" is representative of the population of all exMos. 

[InCognitus]

Dan McClellan and Brad Kramer are doing a live stream multi-part discussion on the series.  Their first episode streamed this evening.  I like their approach:

 

[Calm]

Ach, I hit down instead of up and I am out of points, so can’t change it yet

Added:  Fixed it

Edited May 3, 2022 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

7 hours ago, cinepro said:

Not really.

Go to any exMo forum and say "Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?"

You will get dog piled by people trying to out do each other with their praises of the book (and the idea of a faithful LDS reading it will move them to a state of ecstasy). From what I can tell, there is zero awareness that there are any problems with the book.

I haven’t been on an exmo forum in years, so I wouldn’t know. But we apostates are no more a monolithic group than are church members. I would have thought that you understood that. 

[Analytics]

11 hours ago, cinepro said:

Not really.

Go to any exMo forum and say "Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?"

You will get dog piled by people trying to out do each other with their praises of the book (and the idea of a faithful LDS reading it will move them to a state of ecstasy). From what I can tell, there is zero awareness that there are any problems with the book.

That's correct. The seventh article of our non-faith is that we believe everything Fawn Brodie has written, everything she now writes, and everything she ever will write. If anyone claims that Fawn Brodie's masterpiece is anything less than the pinnacle of historical perfection, we excommunicate them from ExMormonism and force them to rejoin the Church.

ExMormons are generally free to believe and say a wide range of things, but there are two lines they are not allowed to cross:

1- They aren't allowed to say anything good about Mormons.

2- They aren't allowed to say anything bad about Fawn Brodie.  

Edited May 3, 2022 by Analytics

[Analytics]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:26 PM, cinepro said:

Not really.

Go to any exMo forum and say "Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?"

You will get dog piled by people trying to out do each other with their praises of the book (and the idea of a faithful LDS reading it will move them to a state of ecstasy). From what I can tell, there is zero awareness that there are any problems with the book.

By pure coincidence, yesterday somebody posted the following on the mostly-atheist, bitter ExMormon, Peterson Obsession Board:

Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?

What are the odds?

It turns out that the mostly-atheist anti-Mormons ended up trying to outdo each other with extortions that No Man Knows My History is "one sided and hostile," and that Rough Stone Rolling is actually a better book. Specifically, the following four comments were made, with emphasis added:

Quote

ExMormon 1: 

It is decidedly non believing and a bit brutal. I had stopped believing and been away from the church for some years before I read it. I found it a bit shocking.

It is clear, well written, well researched, and a thoughtful presentation which I think is of some value.

I have heard complaints that it attempts to understand Joseph's internal psychology. There is uncertainty in any such reading but I doubt that any biography can completely avoid such reading. Even if not explicit I think such reading of the person would determine which events are presented in what manner.

You might consider Rough Stone Rolling as less one sided and hostile.

ExMormon 2:

I thought it was a fairly enjoyable read, Brodie is nothing if not a skilled writer. I think [ExMormon 1] nails some of the issues you may encounter, especially if reading from a faithful perspective. The good news is there is lots of counter material (some much more balanced than others) out there that could be consumed as a rebuff to the work if that is something that is important to you.

I will say that I didn't really recognize the Joseph Smith I was familiar with from my own study in Brodie's writing. Personally I'm more in the "pious fraud" camp and that isn't the Smith portrayed. I recognize that is likely my own biases at play though and I could be totally off. I also know there is some criticism concerning the handling of some sources, mainly what is counted as primary vs not, but most of that discussion is beyond my church history knowledge so I'll leave it to much smarter folks here to cover that if it is worthwhile.

I'll also second [ExMormon 1's] recommendation of Rough Stone Rolling as a more faithful option that still gives you a lot of the "dirty" details.

ExMormon 3:

I would simply add Rough Stone Rolling is also a must read if you are going to read Brodie first. By all means read them both if possible, but I think Rough Stone Rolling has more pazzaz, and historical analysis to it. Perhaps I should say it is more sophisticated. I mean, any book written such as Rough Stone Rolling by a faithful temple attending Mormon historian and the riff raff of the rest of Mormonism (i.e., chapel Mormons) scream it is anti-Mormon has simply GOT to be thoroughly studied... 😄

ExMormon 4:

Just wanted to add, the 3 comments and recommendations above are spot on. Happy reading and come back and tell us what you think.

So where do I need to go, specifically, to find these exMormons who think No Man Knows My History is scripture?

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Analytics said:

By pure coincidence, yesterday somebody posted the following on the mostly-atheist, bitter ExMormon, Peterson Obsession Board:

Hey, I've been a member my whole life and am just now exploring church history because I saw an ad for that 'Banner of Heaven' show on Hulu. I'm thinking of reading 'No Man Knows My History.' Is it any good?

What are the odds?

It turns out that the mostly-atheist anti-Mormons ended up trying to outdo each other with extortions that No Man Knows My History is "one sided and hostile," and that Rough Stone Rolling is actually a better book. Specifically, the following four comments were made, with emphasis added:

So where do I need to go, specifically, to find these exMormons who think No Man Knows My History is scripture?

Amazon reviews?

Quote

The “official” history/biography of Joseph Smith that I have grown up with as a Mormon is incomplete and sanitized. I kept reading this book and saying, “I knew that but not THAT.”

I am in awe of Fawn Brody as the author of this epic book. That the first accurate & complete biography of Joseph Smith was written by a woman in the 1940s blows my mind. Going against the misogyny that discouraged women to have careers in the first place, and then having a successful career as a historian and author is admirable enough for that time period. But it is a whole other level of achievement to be the niece of David O. McKay, president of the LDS church, walk against the current of patriarchal culture, AND write a serious scholarly biography about one of the most controversial figures in American religious history.

This book reads like a novel. At times I couldn’t put it down. I absolutely loved it. It was FASCINATING!

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I know she is no longer with us, but I would personally like to express my appreciation to Ms. Fawn Brodie for compiling such an exhaustive account of Mr. Smith's life. I spent the first 45 years of my life attending Mormon church, seminary, marrying in the temple, etc. The LDS Church withheld relevant information from me, which had I known, I most likely would have made different choices. Lack of full disclosure equals dishonesty. I just wish the LDS Church would follow their own advice and: #1 Be honest. #2 Repent. But, they can't. They are in it too deep. Best wishes to all you young kids. Thank God for Google. You can have full information. It's all "out there" now.

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Fawn Brodie did her research and cites primarily sources from LDS sources such as journals from people who knew Joseph Smith and from Joseph Smith himself. I trust that the information is reliable. I learned more about Joseph Smith than I was ever taught in Sunday School or LDS seminary.

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As a former Latter-day Saint, I was taught the Church-sanctioned history of the prophet that came from official church sources. This biography introduced me to little-known sources outside the Church that caused me to see his history in a new light and in a fuller context. The research is meticulous and authentic.

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If you like history, this is a great book for you. It gives the most objective view about the founder of the Mormon religion (actually religions as there were many break always after he died) and explains the culture and dysfunctional roots of the church. I was very faithful and well taught and informed (I ask lots of questions) in the religion for over 30 years and this book helped me understand why the church had caused me so much emotional turmoil by understanding the real beginnings of this church and that it wasn't the nice version of the history the church teaches investigators and members. 

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Published in 1945, yet still a classic, her psychobiography was the first work to hint that Smith was a narcissist who used his vivid imagination to create the Mormon religion. Her book remains the best analysis of the facts giving birth to Mormonism and of the key events that took place in its founding prophet's life.

(Kay Burningham)

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Having been born and reared in the Church, it was not merely a "church," but it was "The Only True Church on the Face of the Earth." It was my identity, I served a misson, Branch President, H.P., Stake Mission President, sending my son on his mission next week, so imagine my sense of betrayal, and the helplessness and confusion I felt after reading this book. My three (3) pillars were: (1) a young man may spawn a lie, for personal motivations, but he can still be a Prophet, and nobody would carry a lie so far as to be killed for it; (2) No man could have written the Book of Mormon; and (3) the Temple Ceremony is so sacred and unusual that it could not have been imagined or contrived. Well, this most carefully documented, carefully written, carefully researched book, has all but destroyed my pillars. Fawn Brodie, Niece of the Prophet, David O. McKay, has done meticulous research and I have searched for but never found or read an official LDS Church response or debunking of it...

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If you want to know the real truth about the book of Mormon, you must read this book. While living in Salt Lake as a recent convert, I was curious about the origination of the Book of Mormon. I looked for this book but it was never available because the LDS people would buy up all of the copies from the Christian book stores. That sent me on a quest to find it and it took me a year. After reading this book and several others, I decided to "withdraw my membership" . It's a long drawn out process but worth the hassle to feel free again and worship a God who is " large enough to rule the universe and small enough to fill the human heart". (This is a phrase use with sarcasm in the LDS church.)

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This book was responsible for me leaving the LDS religion. It is academic, it is not a anti-mormon book, Fawn Brodie gives the historical context and facts researched from church documents and historical records about a cult leader...I thank Fawn Brodie for her work...because it is a book built on research, not a book of rhetoric.

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If you are a mormon and you read this there is no doubt it will change your view of your church forever. Many have read it and gained or lost faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet but none will finish this book without a closer understanding of what kind of a guy he was and what made him tick. Brodie had such unprecedented access to official church historical records and wrote such an honest portrayal that it changed the face of mormon historical writing forever (essentially the LDS church locked the archives forever). I was a mormon for 15 years before reading this book and I was learning things we were never taught about JS on every page. Do yourself a favor, just read it.

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As an ex-mormon it was good to read some of this -, but I no longer anything this man brought to mankind and I thank God everyday that I woke up.

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Coming from a very orthodox LDS upbringing, this book was always considered taboo and that it should not be read. That it essentially distorts the picture of Joseph Smith to make him out to be less of a man than he was. But long since breaking ties with the Church, the taboo still played on me until relatively recently. In which I sat down and read it through.
...
The book was actually very well balanced, Brodie used sources from both inside and outside the Mormon Church, allowing for a more complete picture of what transpired.
...
I would recommend this book to both non-Mormon and Mormon alike it is important to have a full picture of the origins of a religion not just the rose colored picture the religion has created. As with all historical books you have to weigh the evidence for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

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The Best Most Informative Book On The Foundation Mormon Religion.

The Best Book On Mormon History still. I first stumbled on this jewel at our local library in 90s, I have checked it out & reread twice, always learning more. I come from a Mormon or L.D.S. family, with roots back to building Salt Lake City & of course a Polygamist Great Grandfather. Not only did alcoholism run back several generations on my father's side, he was born & raised in Utah. Our family was greatly impacted by my father's taking on a Mistress when I was 6 & fathering 2 children w her, he already had 4 children w my mom, his wife. Our entire family, I have well over 100 1st cousin's, all of us have suffered from sexual abuse, physical abuse, very sad family history. I have been deeply suspicious of Joseph Smith's supposed visions & prophesies since I was quite young. I was forced to be baptised at 8, against the so called edict (Mormon) that Babtism should wait till the age of reasoning so a person can choose. I sat my parents down at 14 for a deep talk about my beliefs & painfully explained I was not Mormon, I didn't believe it to be a true church, nor did I accept the Book Of Mormon & I would not live that hypocrisy any longer. I searched for year's for answers to my many questions & Fawn's book answered them so eloquently & with a wealth of background research. She gave time's, name's, dates & so much more, finally I had answers to so many spiritual questions. My life has been greatly enriched from reading her wonderful book. Sure I've read the jibes about her "amateur psychology", written by brainwashed Mormons, I have a whole family of these brainwashed people whom I love dearly with my whole heart and soul. 

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This is the definative Joseph Smith autobiography, Brodie is famous for the portraits of men of power and Joseph Smith is far more interesting then Richard Nixon. Brodie really is viewed as an absolute evil in the Mormon church, there is no doubt about that, I remember hearing her name sworn at long before I ever heard of the book. 

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I grew up "in the Church" as Utah Mormons say and have heard about Fawn Brodie for years. I was actually quite disappointed that the book wasn't the wicked diatribe that I had been told.  It is very well written. It does NOT make "claims" it simply reports the facts in the context of the times. Even by 1945 when the book was published "just the facts" had been long lost.  Contractions and changes of the various accounts are presented as if in a court of law. Speculation is limited.  I learned things that I didn't know and have little doubt as to their veracity.  Mormon's relay on "the still small voice" or "the warm feeling in their heart" NOT facts.  I am grateful to Ms Brodie for her work and brave effort.

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Brodie's work is really indispensable for anyone who is considering either joining the Mormons or leaving the faith. Also good for anyone who is curious about Joseph Smith or about Mormonism, or interested in why and how good people get drawn into ridiculous belief systems.

I come from a long line of Mormons. I recently read the biography of an ancestor of mine, a woman who joined the LDS Church in England with her husband and children. She was smart enough to realize that the religions she knew about, like the Church of England, were false--but didn't realize that the Mormons were just more of the same. During the journey to America the family lost all their savings to some unscrupulous Mormon missionaries (note that when someone tells you God requires all your money, it is perhaps wise to be cautious). Eventually they made it to the U.S., where her husband promptly died. She crossed the plains to Utah in a handcart company, nearly starving to death on the way. If she could have had access to the facts about Joseph Smith and his checkered past before she joined up, maybe she would have avoided a lot of pain and suffering.
 

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For ex-Mormons and Mormons who aren't happy in their religion:
This is the group that I fit into. This book helped me to finally break away from the Mormon church. There were so many things that never made sense, but once you can better understand Joseph Smith and how he founded his religion you can better understand Mormonism today. Knowing the truth about Mormonism makes it so much easier to to leave because when it comes down to it Joseph's stories were lies and he constantly did things to better his own position in life. Joseph Smith was the first major cult leader in America and understanding that can help you get away. So I definitely recommend this book for people who are having a difficult time leaving the church or have had a difficult time staying away.

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I was a lifetime Mormon till I went through a divorce and decided to take a critical look at my own beliefs. Having been born in the Church, serving a full time Mission and marrying in the temple I thought I knew all about Joseph Smith and the history of Mormonism. This book changed my life more than the Book of Mormon ever could have. For the first time many missing parts of the Mormon puzzle began to fit together and my life, as I understood it came crashing down. I literally threw up as I discovered what a ******* Joseph Smith was. No, this book isn't perfect, but having been written in 1945, it has proven itself to be the definitive expose of Mormonism's founder. I bear witness it has more truth in it than you will find inside the whitewashed history of the Mormon Church. I found myself unable to return my copy to the library and chose to pay the replacement cost. It is one of my most cherished possessions.

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 Yes Ma'am, That IS History !

As a former Mormon, I found this book to be extremely eye-opening and it answered many of the questions that the Missionaries could not or would not answer for me. I have read many reviews of this great book calling it tripe and that it is a rag written by a someone with an axe to grind. Sorry, but if you read, REALLY read this book, then you will see that it was not put together on a whim and that it was footnoted and researched to the nth degree. The only reason that this book gets negative reviews is that the people reading it giving those reviews do not WANT to accept the truth and want to keep their minds closed. I have not seen one valid argument from an opponent of this book other than to say it is trash and is full of lies and half-truths. Well, back those statements up with facts as Ms. Brodie has done in her wonderful book. I recommend this book wholeheartedly to people wishing to know the truth about the birth of Mormonism. Don't take my word for it though, read it through and make your own judgement, but I think you will see that at a a time when America was gullible and open to new religions, Joseph Smith took advantage of that and preyed on the minds of those people and many an individual, myself included, have been lured into it since that time.

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How I wish I had read this book 35 years ago before going on a mission. I have many regrets for people that I have misled with my ignorant blind faith. This book was a real wake up call for me, along with Todd Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness."

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Fawn Brodie was light years ahead of her time. She was by no means some whacked out disgruntled female liberal rebel without a cause, as the Mormon Church would like to paint her. She was a credible scholar, Ph.D from UCLA. A master of history and a person who had the mega courage to expose the Mormon Church as a Fraud! As an EX Mormon of over 46 years, a former High Priest and former Mormon Temple worker, I thank God that I finally had the courage/curiosity to read this landmark book on Mormonism. Written over 60 years ago in the 1940's, Fawn Brodie NAILS Mormonism founder Joe Smith to the cross of truth. The Mormon apologists can only make desperate agonal jabs of ignorance in an attempt to counter punch the world class fighter arguments of Fawn Brodie as she systematically dismantles Joe Smith and his fraudulent Cult.

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First, let me say that I am a 'recovering Mormon.' This book helped me open my eyes and step into the light, and out of the darkness in which I was raised. The light of truth is invigorating and refreshing.... I think it must have been similar for people in the former Soviet Union when their blinders were finally pulled off, and they saw that they had been living... and believing in...the fiction that was the USSR and its banckrupt ideology/false history since they were children.

And I'm sorry if it will offend believers, but Mormonism really is 'out there' on the fringe, if you will, with Wicca and Scientology. A close reading of this book and other non-apologetic works on the development of the church, as well on the character and personality of Joseph Smith, shows that the Mormon religion is essentially rooted in magic and the occult. There are many 'cult-like' activities and practices established within the church and among its adherents as well.

No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie shows that the emperor (Joe Smith, the great American heretic and apostate) has no clothes. It's the one book Mormons don't want the rest of the world to read, because it conflicts with the official, sanitized, fictionalized version of Joseph Smith's life promulgated by the LDS church.

Thanks,

-Smac