Des News Article Re: "Under the Banner of Heaven" Mini Series

[Rivers]

I looked at some of the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.  A lot of critics are saying the show gets bogged down by too much backstory.  I assume they are referring to the church history scenes.   Those scenes feel like they are ripped straight from September Dawn.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Rivers said:

He didn’t mention the ridiculous french fry scene.  Apparently mormons shouldn’t eat french fries. 

 

Dang…haven’t got to that yet.

It is not as bad in details as I was thinking overall besides the really weird Mormon vibe they have got going….when did Idaho become a den of sin so that a good Mormon girl would head to BYU to help build Zion?  

Did have a Greg Olsen picture on the wall, O Jerusalem, that looks like it was done in 1995 if the comment on Olsen’s site was written to introduce it.  So proud of myself I spotted that, lol.  I also guessed it was Pioneer Day when they had Jen’s daughter in a prairie dress.

But in the first episode, one of the younger brothers, the husband and father of the victims, who appears to have been appointed as the Truthspeaker at least for that episode, is going on and on about how Jeb (Garfield) doesn’t know what a real Mormon is, doesn’t know the faith like he thinks he does.  Got so old so quickly.  Oh, and Jeb freaks out and starts breaking the rules and instead of being cautious, does a 180 and is going to have the guy convicted of murdering his family by morning when Jeb hears the husband, Allen, doesn’t believe any more. Allen goes on of how he misses the version of God he was taught in church…then it has a flashback to Joseph and Emma in a field and he is telling her of the First Vision and Moroni’s visit.   

Allen:  “Joseph Smith at only 15 years old set forth to create his one true church. Why?  What drove him?  It was love.”

”And the Holy Spirit told him to marry Emma, that with her love, God would share His most sacred truths.

Emma:  “If our God is love, Then He fills my heart…with you”.

Allen:  “That is the Church I miss.”

And Jeb just sits there and nods his head in agreement.

For someone who loses it when he hears apostasy, he sure is letting the guy get away with fitting the Church into the oddest box I have seen in quite some time without calling it out as bogus.  But then his version is rather odd too.

But what I really want to know is when did our manuals turn into Romance novels and why didn’t I ever hear about it.  Sure, I was in Primary teaching at the time, but I think I would notice the heaving bosoms and flushed faces of my Sisters picking up their kids after Relief Society.

Other then that….  

The characters are so dang stereotyped.  The partner, the older jaded, more experienced detective is a bit novel because he is Native American.  I am assuming he is fictitious as well.  If not, the real guy should be insulted.  Looks like he learned how to be a cop by watching B movies. “Just give me ten minutes alone with him….” And the uniforms are racist and assume he is a drunk because he is NA?  I am having trouble believing uniforms would outright insult a superior officer like that.

The Lafferty dad is played by a great ‘if you want cool, creepy, I am your guy’ actor.  He is tall and gaunt and has the perfect black and white horror film voice, but he played a vampire alien on Stargate:  Atlantis and that is all I can visualize when I hear him.  No wonder the elderly neighbour looks like he has had the life sucked out of him.

How does “eminent domain” work, btw?  Can the government be resisted by showing your land is being used? (They have this family project of clearing the neighbour’s field of rocks to prevent the government from seizing it for a freeway, I kind of doubt if the surveyor wanted the freeway to go through that plot it would matter if he had planted it or not.)

The most normal character on the show so far feels like Ron Lafferty, but he was flirting with his brother’s girlfriend in front of his wife…who appears to go along with it, thinking it is hinting of at least a tolerance for polygamy here…so a bit of a creep.  There was a Esau and Jacob scenario going on, Daddy favors mostly feckless oldest son and Mommy favors good looking second born boy.  She’s as whacked as Daddy though since she is going on about Ron being the One Mighty and Strong as prophecied.  He looks like he is humoring her, but I am guessing not since…you know, the ending and all.

The only thing that got me was when they showed clips of the baby playing with mom as Jeb is looking at the crib at the crime scene at the beginning.  They wisely never show the bodies.  Tons of blood though.  Garfield does a good horrified, sickened cop…but then he goes out and tells the cop sitting on the step to “gather yourself for their sake”.  He speaks rather formally.  No doubt because that is what highly religious people do.  And Taba, the jaded cop, chews gum because that is what jaded cops do when they can’t smoke.

[Calm]

54 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I looked at some of the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.  A lot of critics are saying the show gets bogged down by too much backstory.  I assume they are referring to the church history scenes.   Those scenes feel like they are ripped straight from September Dawn.

The Brenda is just a gosh, darn sweet, good Mormon girl from small town Idaho, I am going to read the news on TV some day! prologue felt unnecessary, but probably because it felt so manufactured rather than real to me.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Unsurprisingly, it sounds like this program is what happens when people imagine what it must be like to be faithful Latter-day Saints.

Very much so. I had a number of room/dorm mates from Idaho and none came close to Brenda.  But she is managing to be happy in graceful and funny ways in every scene I have seen so far even in the most awkward moments, so her character is appealing, if unreal to me.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Dang…haven’t got to that yet.

It is not as bad in details as I was thinking overall besides the really weird Mormon vibe they have got going….when did Idaho become a den of sin so that a good Mormon girl would head to BYU to help build Zion?  

Did have a Greg Olsen picture on the wall, O Jerusalem, that looks like it was done in 1995 if the comment on Olsen’s site was written to introduce it.  So proud of myself I spotted that, lol.  I also guessed it was Pioneer Day when they had Jen’s daughter in a prairie dress.

But in the first episode, one of the younger brothers, the husband and father of the victims, who appears to have been appointed as the Truthspeaker at least for that episode, is going on and on about how Jeb (Garfield) doesn’t know what a real Mormon is, doesn’t know the faith like he thinks he does.  Got so old so quickly.  Oh, and Jeb freaks out and starts breaking the rules and instead of being cautious, does a 180 and is going to have the guy convicted of murdering his family by morning when Jeb hears the husband, Allen, doesn’t believe any more. Allen goes on of how he misses the version of God he was taught in church…then it has a flashback to Joseph and Emma in a field and he is telling her of the First Vision and Moroni’s visit.   

Allen:  “Joseph Smith at only 15 years old set forth to create his one true church. Why?  What drove him?  It was love.”

”And the Holy Spirit told him to marry Emma, that with her love, God would share His most sacred truths.

Emma:  “If our God is love, Then He fills my heart…with you”.

Allen:  “That is the Church I miss.”

And Jeb just sits there and nods his head in agreement.

For someone who loses it when he hears apostasy, he sure is letting the guy get away with fitting the Church into the oddest box I have seen in quite some time without calling it out as bogus.  But then his version is rather odd too.

But what I really want to know is when did our manuals turn into Romance novels and why didn’t I ever hear about it.  Sure, I was in Primary teaching at the time, but I think I would notice the heaving bosoms and flushed faces of my Sisters picking up their kids after Relief Society.

Other then that….  

The characters are so dang stereotyped.  The partner, the older jaded, more experienced detective is a bit novel because he is Native American.  I am assuming he is fictitious as well.  If not, the real guy should be insulted.  Looks like he learned how to be a cop by watching B movies. “Just give me ten minutes alone with him….” And the uniforms are racist and assume he is a drunk because he is NA?  I am having trouble believing uniforms would outright insult a superior officer like that.

The Lafferty dad is played by a great ‘if you want cool, creepy, I am your guy’ actor.  He is tall and gaunt and has the perfect black and white horror film voice, but he played a vampire alien on Stargate:  Atlantis and that is all I can visualize when I hear him.  No wonder the elderly neighbour looks like he has had the life sucked out of him.

How does “eminent domain” work, btw?  Can the government be resisted by showing your land is being used? (They have this family project of clearing the neighbour’s field of rocks to prevent the government from seizing it for a freeway, I kind of doubt if the surveyor wanted the freeway to go through that plot it would matter if he had planted it or not.)

The most normal character on the show so far feels like Ron Lafferty, but he was flirting with his brother’s girlfriend in front of his wife…who appears to go along with it, thinking it is hinting of at least a tolerance for polygamy here…so a bit of a creep.  There was a Esau and Jacob scenario going on, Daddy favors mostly feckless oldest son and Mommy favors good looking second born boy.  She’s as whacked as Daddy though since she is going on about Ron being the One Mighty and Strong as prophecied.  He looks like he is humoring her, but I am guessing not since…you know, the ending and all.

The only thing that got me was when they showed clips of the baby playing with mom as Jeb is looking at the crib at the crime scene at the beginning.  They wisely never show the bodies.  Tons of blood though.  Garfield does a good horrified, sickened cop…but then he goes out and tells the cop sitting on the step to “gather yourself for their sake”.  He speaks rather formally.  No doubt because that is what highly religious people do.  And Taba, the jaded cop, chews gum because that is what jaded cops do when they can’t smoke.

What’s really ruining it for me is that I’m currently reading Middlemarch, which has everything the show doesn’t: crisp writing and dialog, well-developed characters, and a story that makes you want to continue. 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

“We get a bizarre lemonade party Book of Mormon reading”

Pretty sure it was actually from the Times and Seasons, but the brother is reading the Book of Mormon.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

What’s really ruining it for me is that I’m currently reading Middlemarch, which has everything the show doesn’t: crisp writing and dialog, well-developed characters, and a story that makes you want to continue. 

In someways this is helping me.  I was wondering if I could get through a true crime drama, but it feels so artificial that other than right at the beginning for about ten seconds it doesn’t feel anything like “true” or even “crime”, just a tired TV movie (most TV shows I watch have more coherency, though there are plenty of familiar TV cop show tropes).  My biggest problem is I am way too detailing it because there are so many odd moments.  I spent 5 hours on 2/3s of the first episode so far.  Even for my obsessive nitpickyness that’s unusual.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

In someways this is helping me.  I was wondering if I could get through a true crime drama, but it feels so artificial that other than right at the beginning for about ten seconds it doesn’t feel anything like “true” or even “crime”, just a tired TV movie (most TV shows I watch have more coherency, though there are plenty of familiar TV cop show tropes).  My biggest problem is I am way too detailing it because there are so many odd moments.  I spent 5 hours on 2/3s of the first episode so far.  Even for my obsessive nitpickyness that’s unusual.

You are definitely more nitpicky than I am. I just don’t think it’s good enough to spend that much time. 

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

You are definitely more nitpicky than I am. I just don’t think it’s good enough to spend that much time. 

I’m only doing it for FAIR.  I have the time, so why should others suffer needlessly.  I am hoping I will control myself in later episodes, but I have a problem of completion…meaning if I collect anything I have to have the complete set…and prefer symmetry.  My compulsion for completed symmetry is manifesting here as not being able to change my style of reporting midway through the episode because that wouldn’t be symmetrical.  I really hope this does not apply to the whole series.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

The clasped hands thing was a little odd. 

If you mean the reference to it by Taba, it reminded me of some BBC police procedures.  I remember a few have the higher ups being good, old boys in Masonic fraternities scratching each other’s backs and the tried and true cop makes a snide secret handshake remark when faced with corruption.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you mean the reference to it by Taba, it reminded me of some BBC police procedures.  I remember a few have the higher ups being good, old boys in Masonic fraternities scratching each other’s backs and the tried and true cop makes a snide secret handshake remark when faced with corruption.

I mean the mode of prayer. 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I watched part of the first episode...Jim missed the part that it was pioneer day and the girls were dressed that way because of it..maybe because of a parade or something.

When do the adult women all dress up as well?  It’s not Trek.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I mean the mode of prayer. 

I am guessing I haven’t got there yet though I have seen several prayers.  If in first 2/3s of first episode, what scene please?

Got to stop and try to get off hamster wheel or it will be a three day no sleep jag.  Not something I was expecting.  Forgot to take my meds and play my mindless video games as well too.  Missed half a day’s points, blast it.   Not quite hyper focused, but was getting there.  I do a pretty good obsessive compulsion imitation at times.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

I am guessing I haven’t got there yet though I have seen several prayers.  If in first 2/3s of first episode, what scene please?

It’s during the Lafferty family gathering, as I recall. 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It’s during the Lafferty family gathering, as I recall. 

Probably when my eyes started going.  Thanks for pointing that out, not something that should be skipped for my purposes.

Added:  not handshakes, but the way they held their hands in prayer?  Fingers entwined with elbows bent to face….not the Mormon way when standing or sitting as far as I have seen, but I have seen different ones, like holding each other’s hand during prayer around dinner table.  I do clasp my hands on occasion when kneeling to pray at a low bed and my arms rest on the bed, keeps the hands from wobbling.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[CA Steve]

54 minutes ago, Calm said:

I’m only doing it for FAIR.  I have the time, so why should others suffer needlessly.  I am hoping I will control myself in later episodes, but I have a problem of completion…meaning if I collect anything I have to have the complete set…and prefer symmetry.  My compulsion for completed symmetry is manifesting here as not being able to change my style of reporting midway through the episode because that wouldn’t be symmetrical.  I really hope this does not apply to the whole series.

TBH I think the less attention paid to this train wreck the better. Let the non LDS reviews kill it. 

[Teancum]

Here is another review and take and emphasizes better what I think I and others have been saying.  I will just bold items I find relevant to that. 

 

Quote

 

At the Salt Lake City premiere of Under the Banner of Heaven, writer, director, and producer, Dustin Lance Black explained that the series sought to tell a broader story of Mormonism, including Mormon experiences foreign to most viewers. By this time, some critics and media comments responded to Banner by arguing it incorrectly portrayed Mormonism (broadly defined) as a violent and dangerous faith. Few considered Black’s goal and the reality that Banner didn’t only seek to portray the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the largest religion under the “Mormon” umbrella. 

Under the Banner of Heaven is the true-crime bestseller about Ron and Dan Lafferty, two brothers who made headlines after a double murder shook a suburban Utah town. The men were raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religion that most are familiar with to some degree. However, in the 1970s, the men joined a small group of believers who understood themselves to be the most authentic remnant of the religion founded by Joseph Smith in 1830. 

As the show opened, some people began to see a reflection of their own experience in the series—many for the first time. In a public Facebook post, a historical consultant for the show, Troy Williams of Equality Utah, spoke of his experience investigating the fundamentalist Apostolic United Brethren after his LDS mission. One woman on Twitter explained, “It’s been a weird ride realizing that the version of Mormonism taught in my home probably qualifies as fundamentalist.” She continued, “Honestly the biggest thing Banner evoked in me was the feeling that I wasn’t crazy and that my experience was finally seen.”

Banner is one of many stories that can be told about Mormon fundamentalism, a religious tradition most often associated with the continued practice of polygamy. It’s also indicative of the growing reality that the term “Mormon” is increasingly separate from a single institutional identity. Mormonism encapsulates the over 400 religions that trace themselves to Joseph Smith, as well as the individual families whose beliefs and practices differ from “traditional” experiences with the faith. This includes the Lafferty brothers.

As Hulu subscribers anticipate the release of the seven-episode series, some have wondered about these smaller Mormon religions and questioned the prevalence of Mormon fundamentalism in the contemporary United States. The history of Mormon fundamentalism offers important context for Banner and illuminates the reality that, while small in numbers, Mormon fundamentalism is relatively common. 

But, what is a Mormon fundamentalist?

It was almost 50 years after the death of the religion’s founder that the LDS Church began the long process of ending the practice of polygamy. In 1890, under pressure from the United States government that sought to seize Church assets and disincorporate the religion, the Church released a document referred to as the “Manifesto” that announced the formal end to the practice.

At least, this is the most often told history of Mormon polygamy. However, for those who still believe in the practice, there’s another history of equal importance. On September 27, 1886, the President of the LDS Church, John Taylor, was in hiding for his controversial marriages. According to the men who were present that evening, Taylor was met by both the resurrected Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith and received a revelation, referred to as the 1886 Revelation. The document proclaimed that all laws of God were irrevocable. For members of the Mormon fundamentalist movement, this meant one thing: against all odds, polygamy is here to stay.

In later accounts, one of the men present during the revelation claimed that John Taylor ordained six men who were tasked with ensuring polygamy’s survival. The legacy of these men came to be known as the Council of Friends and included Lorin C. Woolley, Joseph W. Musser, John Y. Barlow, J. Leslie Broadbendt, and Charles Zitting. With these ordinations, Mormon fundamentalism was born. 

Today, most Mormon fundamentalists trace their history to one of these men. Notable examples include the Apostolic United Brethren who most people know from their prominent place on Sister Wives, and the FLDS, the religion that became infamous during the 2008 raid at the Yearning for Zion Ranch. Together, these groups once comprised the majority of Mormon fundamentalists in the nation which, at the height of the movement, included an estimated 40,000 adherents. 

In addition to the AUB and FLDS, people might be familiar with other groups from headlines and documentaries, including the Kingston group, LeBaron group, and Centennial park, to name a few. While these are the prominent examples, the last twenty years saw a rise in “independent” Mormon fundamentalism, polygamous or non-polygamous families who seek to live the “fundamentals” of the faith without official membership in a Church. Independent fundamentalism made headlines in 2019 with the tragic murder of families from LaMora, Mexico. 

But Mormon fundamentalism doesn’t just include the groups with histories connected to Woolley or the 1886 Revelation. And it isn’t just about polygamy. Today, fundamentalist Mormonism encapsulates the experience of many men—and it is men—who claim divine revelation as the impetus to start their own group. This includes Robert Crossfield, the Lafferty’s leader after the brothers became disenfranchised by the LDS Church.

Crossfield (a.k.a. Prophet Onias) was a convert to the LDS Church who in 1961 began receiving revelations that were later published as the Second Book of Commandments and Book of Onias. His revelations and publications led to his excommunication and the formation of his own Mormon religion that attracted many in the Salem, UT area who believed the LDS Church had gone astray.

This is the complicated Mormonism represented in Under the Banner of Heaven. While some might watch the show and question the extent to which the families in Banner are indicative of a common trajectory, the show mirrors a trend that began when the group of men in 1886 wondered if the Church could be wrong about an end to polygamy. 

Banner depicts the Mormonism of many young women who convert to fundamentalism and enter sealings as a third wife; fathers who teach their children the Adam-God Doctrine; and mothers who encourage their neighbors to join consecration efforts—all of which were, but are no longer, a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The sentiment also mirrors the reality that after the end to the priesthood and temple restrictions that barred Black Latter-day Saints from access to the temple in 1978, LDS families joined the Apostolic United Brethren because they worried their Church fell into apostasy.

The series reflects the increasing reality that “Mormonism” isn’t monolithic and that the Mormon experience is vast; at times existing apart from an easily defined institution. It also reflects the reality that sometimes Mormonism can lend doctrinal support to men who commit horrific crimes, like Bryan David Mitchell, Arvin Shreeve, Warren Jeffs, Ervil LeBaron, and the Lafferty brothers—but certainly not always, especially given that each either left the LDS Church or was excommunicated for their beliefs.

While many individuals will rightfully not see their religious experience on the screen, Banner gives voice to an under discussed experience. Banner depicts a more complicated definition of “Mormonism” and allows people whose experiences are not considered normative a time to see themselves in the story, even for the first time.

Facebook1.8kTweet

 

 

https://religiondispatches.org/what-most-critics-missed-about-dustin-lance-blacks-under-the-banner-of-heaven-adaptation/

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I’m only doing it for FAIR.  I have the time, so why should others suffer needlessly.  I am hoping I will control myself in later episodes, but I have a problem of completion…meaning if I collect anything I have to have the complete set…and prefer symmetry.  My compulsion for completed symmetry is manifesting here as not being able to change my style of reporting midway through the episode because that wouldn’t be symmetrical.  I really hope this does not apply to the whole series.

I watched it intermittently while I was doing my PT exercises on my shoulder. So, I probably missed a lot I could nitpick. I understand your purpose in thoroughly going through it. I don’t have the interest. 

[jkwilliams]

48 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Here is another review and take and emphasizes better what I think I and others have been saying.  I will just bold items I find relevant to that. 

 

 

https://religiondispatches.org/what-most-critics-missed-about-dustin-lance-blacks-under-the-banner-of-heaven-adaptation/

Thanks for posting that. I actually think the show is much fairer to the church (and broader Mormonism) than the OP’s assertion of a latter-day Thomas Sharp. I just can’t get past the poor writing. It’s a shame. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

[dup]

Edited April 29, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[LoudmouthMormon]

9 hours ago, Rivers said:

He didn’t mention the ridiculous french fry scene.  Apparently mormons shouldn’t eat french fries. 

That's foreshadowing.  You know, the literary device where the storyteller hints at plot developments that don't actually occur until later in the story?

See, our young idealistic mormon detective hero has managed to stay a good mormon, only because he doesn't do the things he shouldn't do, like delve too deeply into mormon history.  Similarly, skinny fit folk need to stay away from french fries, or they'll get all fat and sad.  See?  Ooooh - young freckle-faced detective boy!  Stay away from that french fry!  Stay away from that crazy murder suspect and his stories about your own history!

 

Anyway, when foreshadowing is done correctly, there's nothing wrong with it.  Yes indeed, the french fry scene was ridiculous.  You might as well have the cop and the detective both carrying signs that said "Literary Device!!!", and hold them up and look at the camera after he ate the french fry.

 

Now, as y'all watch the show, pay close attention to the musical score.  It's similar to what we see in horror movies.  Dark, deep, ominous basses help create a mood.  And the mood here, is "cultic mormon history is full of blood and murder, and the more today's mormons look at their history, the more their rock solid faith in the church rots and dies, like so much leprosy."

[webbles]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Brenda Lafferty was killed in the same manner that I pantomimed many times during the pre-1990 temple ceremony.  

Reading the descriptions of the deaths, I would say it is more similar to cutting the throat of a chicken or turkey than it is to the temple penalties. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

TBH I think the less attention paid to this train wreck the better. Let the non LDS reviews kill it. 

We will likely link to them as well, but we are getting questions already and if we have a page or two for it, some may find their way to our site where they wouldn’t have otherwise. 

[jkwilliams]

13 minutes ago, webbles said:

Reading the descriptions of the deaths, I would say it is more similar to cutting the throat of a chicken or turkey than it is to the temple penalties. 

I believe Dan Lafferty made the explicit connection to temple penalties in his statements to the police. I’ll see if I can find the source. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by jkwilliams

[LoudmouthMormon]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Brenda Lafferty was killed in the same manner that I pantomimed many times during the pre-1990 temple ceremony.  

Okay.

6 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I believe Ron Lafferty made the explicit connection to temple penalties in his statements to the police. I’ll see if I can find the source. 

Okay.

 

I'm reminded of the original Church Public Affairs Department response to the book:

Quote

The exceptions are the rule by his standards. One could be forgiven for concluding that every Latter-day Saint, including your friendly Mormon neighbor, has a tendency to violence. And so Krakauer unwittingly puts himself in the same camp as those who believe every German is a Nazi, every Japanese a fanatic, and every Arab a terrorist.
- Mike Otterson, “Church: Best-Selling Author Is No Historian,” Salt Lake Tribune, 13 July 2003

So I wonder @sunstoned and @jkwilliams: Do you believe, as Krakauer obviously wants us to, the existence of that particular pre-1990's bit of the ceremony, or the other violent or tragic bits of LDS history, motivates horrible murders?   What percentage of LDS folks would you guess are at an increased risk of violent or murderous behavior due to such a selective slicing of our history?  From where I'm standing, occasionally, unhinged people end up doing horrible things.  And if the Lafferty boys hadn't been LDS, or hadn't known about those particular bits of LDS history, something else would have done just as well.   But your opinion may differ, so I'm interested.

 

Example: The FedEx employee that killed 9 people a year ago:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_FedEx_shooting

Quote

Hole's Facebook account did reveal, however, that he was a "brony", a fan of the animated series My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. Less than an hour before the shooting, he posted to his Facebook account: "I hope that I can be with Applejack in the afterlife, my life has no meaning without her. If there's no afterlife and she isn't real then my life never mattered anyway."

"It's true" - Applejack

Edited April 29, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon