It’s absolutely terrifying what BYU has become

[Robert F. Smith]

44 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is Wayment saying this is his view or is it a perspective that was presented by rabbis and possibly others?

Is he exploring narratives or establishing one as correct?

He is using part of the rabbinic discussion of all these things to express his own POV.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Probably.  The Talmud (from which Ginzberg got most of his material) is a vast collection of Jewish legends and commentary.  Nearly anything can be found therein.

I have always been fascinated by how Ginsburg presented the view that the smallest of detail was a foretelling of what was to come and that God ‘altered’? his plans based on how people said things, like Rachel saying “God will add me another son” meant she only had two sons instead of twelve (so that she herself would have borne the patriarchs of the 12 Tribes) and it was Benjamin who ended up with ten more sons. 
 

The slightest thing is given meaning. 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

......................There was nothing about Joseph playing with boys as a teen. 
 

So he must have used other sources. 

Or he embellished what had read.

Wayment wrongly stated that Gen 37 was not embellished by Alma 46 (nothing new there).  But Hugh Nibley detected a great deal new about the rent pieces of Joseph's ornamented tunic, which is not in Gen 37, but which Moroni employs to brilliant effect.  So where did that story come from?  Nibley found it in a collection of Persian tales -- and the Persians also have a tale of a great leader (Kawe/Kavag) putting a rent garment on a pole.  Muhammad ibn-Ibrahim al-Tha'labi, Qissas al-Anbiya' ("Tales of the Prophets"), in H. Nibley Approach to the Book of Mormon, chapter 17, on Jacob's words about the two remnants of Joseph's coat (nn. 16-17).

[SwedishLDS]

 

Why must every historical creature be queer? Not everyone is queer. Oh well, perhaps I am overreacting.

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by SwedishLDS

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

It's not homophobia to shake your head at ridiculous claims every major historical figure is gay.

If your gut reaction is to vomit when a good looking male is described as a hottie by another male, you might be more than a tad homophobic. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Durangout]

14 hours ago, Duncan said:

I know it comes as a shock but gay people exist just like homophobic nitwits exists. I fail to see what this has to do with BYU though

He is a BYU professor.  His personal beliefs will come through in his teaching at school. Why is BYU hiring openly gay professors to teach religion???

[Durangout]

12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

One professor = all of BYU???

That BYU has one professor like this is inexcusable.  Obviously BYU knows who and what he is and what teaches.

[california boy]

7 minutes ago, Durangout said:

He is a BYU professor.  His personal beliefs will come through in his teaching at school. Why is BYU hiring openly gay professors to teach religion???

What is the Church coming to.  A gay professor? He should be run out of town on a rail since we can't really burn him at a stake.  We don't want "those kind" at BYU.  I thought that was pretty clear.

 

This post sums up the pretense the gays are accepted in the Church as long as they are celibate,   It reinforces my experience that many members have that there is no room for gay people in the Church.

Edited March 19, 2022 by california boy

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, Durangout said:

He is a BYU professor.  His personal beliefs will come through in his teaching at school. Why is BYU hiring openly gay professors to teach religion???

About 30 seconds of googling taught me that Wayment hasn’t taught religion at BYU since 2018.  He is currently a professor of classics. 

[Durangout]

57 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If your gut reaction is to vomit when a good looking male is described as a hottie by another male, you might be more than a tad homophobic. 

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

[Duncan]

8 minutes ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

FYI, this is total nonsense. The fact that you don't know what you are talking about is real sad and disturbing actually. Have you learned nothing in church? reading the scriptures? love they neighbor? none of that has had any effect on you? none? seems like going to church but you missed the gospel

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 minutes ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

I was going to respond more, but your post stands pretty well on its own. Just FYI, I’m not a member so you can relax. 
 

Edited to add cuz I just can’t resist. The irony that “homophobic” is name calling, but “abhorrent”, “corruption” and “damning” are just fine. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Teancum]

18 minutes ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

Ahh religion and dogma.  Dogma really is what is abhorrent. Totally abhorrent.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

He is a BYU professor.  His personal beliefs will come through in his teaching at school. Why is BYU hiring openly gay professors to teach religion???

What makes you think he is openly gay?  Tom is a friend of my husband’s though he hasn’t seen much of him since the ward got split a few years ago. 
 

My guess is his wife and kids would be surprised.       

Edited March 19, 2022 by Calm

[Navidad]

7 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Ahh religion and dogma.  Dogma really is what is abhorrent. Totally abhorrent.

Dogma is doctrine gone awry! It is very dangerous, especially to those not of the faith (whatever the faith may be)!

[california boy]

51 minutes ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

You go guy.  Tell us how I am a worthless piece of crap for being born gay.  Tell us how your Jesus will deal with us that are gay.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

You're not wrong doctrinally about homosexuality  But there's a lack of compassion in your expressing it.

 

[The Nehor]

16 hours ago, Durangout said:

At 20:55, this BYU professor calls Joseph a “hottie”.

(vomit)

Weird. When someone says that about me I take it as a compliment. No urge for projectile vomiting at all.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Durangout said:

He is a BYU professor.  His personal beliefs will come through in his teaching at school. Why is BYU hiring openly gay professors to teach religion???

Why do you assume he is gay?

8 hours ago, Durangout said:

That BYU has one professor like this is inexcusable.  Obviously BYU knows who and what he is and what teaches.

SEND THEM TO THE CAMPS!!!!!! BURN THE WITCHES!!!!!!

8 hours ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

You are calling for ruining someone’s career but now we have to worry about how your feelings could be hurt from being called “homophobic”.

That is not an insult in this context. It is a description. You talk about vomiting at the thought of homosexual desire and want all the gayness thrown out before someone catches it. That is homophobia.

 

One other odd point. You talk about how filthy the whole thing is and how it made you sick but you are reporting specifics twenty minutes in. Why did you keep listening that long? Something you liked? 😘

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by The Nehor

[JLHPROF]

59 minutes ago, california boy said:

You go guy.  Tell us how I am a worthless piece of crap for being born gay.  Tell us how your Jesus will deal with us that are gay.

Nobody is condemned for how they are born, but for the actions they choose to do.

[CA Steve]

2 hours ago, Durangout said:

ahhhhh…the name calling.  FYI, homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

What a bigot.

No one is promoting an agenda.

And you have not idea what you are talking about.

 

 

[let’s roll]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

there's a lack of compassion

I admire your restraint.  I find I need to take more than a few deep breaths after reading myopic rants (and he’s had a couple on this thread).  Attempts to use the Gospel as a sword never resonate with me.  Love and compassion do, so thank you.

[SwedishLDS]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

You're not wrong doctrinally about homosexuality  But there's a lack of compassion in your expressing it.

 

yes, well said.

Quote

homosexuality is a corruption of God’s plan for his children to become like Him, and is damming to those involved.  I didn’t make up the rules.  God did.

The fact that a significant portion of members of The Church today don’t find this abhorrent is pretty sad.  Maybe it is ok that BYU has professors that promote homosexual relations.  More and more members seem to follow the world in this regard.

Indeed troubling, although scholars are good at entertaining absurdities for good and bad. Sexual sins are one of the most damaging ones to ones soul and failing to stand against immorality (sin) can sometimes be just as bad as standing for morality (being kind/accepting/tolerant/etc).

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by SwedishLDS

[caspianrex]

Admins: The back-and-forth on this thread is getting a little ugly.

Maybe it's time to shut down comments? Just a thought.

[SwedishLDS]

"a deliverer, the power of the sword. effeminate boy, gay man, playing with other boys, playing around with fancy dresses"

 

So if I understand correctly he is saying that Joseph of Egypt got sold into slavery by his brothers because they caught him commiting homosexuality or for being queer, later on saying that he wasnt an example of morality by standing against Potifars wifes temptation of adultery but was just an uninterested gay man. The problem with this view is that it partiallydiscards the moral teachings of Joseph being an example of not being tempted etc.

This reminds me of some of the discussions on the spear in Christs side being an homosexual act (see https://smarthistory.org/jean-le-noir-bourgot-miniature-of-christ-wound-passion-prayer-book-bonne-luxembourg/)

Edited March 19, 2022 by SwedishLDS