Can a divorced man be called as a Bishop or be in a Bishopric?

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

How lovely. So basically he was saying that only a pompous a$$ is allowed to serve as a bishop in Utah?

What he really was saying was “you people are keeping me from being recognized as the top leadership quality that I am, I should be in this calling, not you”.  If ever jealousy was obvious, I would say this is such a case. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

That makes me ill. 

 

21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Very sad.

At first, I was just confused (and, to be honest, probably far too tired to process correctly). Later, I'll admit, it stung, and quite deeply.

With our bishop's frequent absences, I probably presided over the ward more than he ever did.

I was home sick with the flu once, and a desperate member rang me up for help. The second counsellor was away this week as well (all three of us worked at the university), so there was nowhere else for this brother to go. I told him that he'd find the door unlocked and explained how to find my bedroom. For the next two hours, he sat on the floor next to my bed and wept over how afraid he was that he was going to a) go to gaol and b) lose his entire family. I assured him that I would do everything I could to not let those things happen, and, still lying in bed, fever raging, I laid my hands on his head and gave him a blessing of comfort.

He left that night with the peace he craved.

And I was left in a cold, dark house entirely by myself. One more reason, in my opinion, why it is hard to serve in such callings when single.

So yeah, it stung.

8 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

How lovely. So basically he was saying that only a pompous a$$ is allowed to serve as a bishop in Utah?

Ha! I actually suspect he volunteered to be my companion that week just so he would have a private opportunity to unload on me. I think his disgust had been growing over the course of many months.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

! I actually suspect he volunteered to be my companion that week just so he would have a private opportunity to unload on me. I think his disgust had been growing over the course of many months.

I don’t think I will ever actually ‘invite’ someone to leave the Church, but I can feel the temptation at times.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t think I will ever actually ‘invite’ someone to leave the Church, but I can feel the temptation at times.

He had a wife and ten children. Before my experience with him, I felt bad that he had to be away from his family for six months. After my experience, I just felt bad for his wife and children ...

[katherine the great]

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

What he really was saying was “you people are keeping me from being recognized as the top leadership quality that I am, I should be in this calling, not you”.  If ever jealousy was obvious, I would say this is such a case. 

Ah green! Very few people can wear it well.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

He had a wife and ten children. Before my experience with him, I felt bad that he had to be away from his family for six months. After my experience, I just felt bad for his wife and children ...

Why? They were probably enjoying those six months.

[Hamba Tuhan]

31 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Why? They were probably enjoying those six months.

Exactly!

[Thinking]

Anecdotal:

My sister's husband had an affair (among other things). They divorced. He was never excommunicated. Don't know why. He later served as a counselor in the bishopric in a different ward.

[InCognitus]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Ha! I actually suspect he volunteered to be my companion that week just so he would have a private opportunity to unload on me. I think his disgust had been growing over the course of many months.

I wonder how he would have handled working with several fishermen, a tent maker, a tax collector, and a former carpenter.  (Some people need to get some perspective.)

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

They divorced. He was never excommunicated.

Temple marriage?  Strange if so.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I wonder how he would have handled working with several fishermen, a tent maker, a tax collector, and a former carpenter.  (Some people need to get some perspective.)

I wonder how he would have handled being ordered to exit my vehicle and find his own way home.

[mfbukowski]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:03 PM, strappinglad said:

Might it depend on the reason for the divorce? 

Depends on the reason, AND how long it has been, evidence of  repentance etc.

Reason is scriptural, a bishop should only have "one wife". 

Timothy 3

Timothy

3

Qualifications of Bishops
1	This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2	A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3	not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4	one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5	(for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6	not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7	Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. ***. 1.6-9

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

Anecdotal:

My sister's husband had an affair (among other things). They divorced. He was never excommunicated. Don't know why. He later served as a counselor in the bishopric in a different ward.

It's different for counselors.

[JAHS]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

I don’t think I will ever actually ‘invite’ someone to leave the Church, but I can feel the temptation at times.

This is a different reason than what you are referring to but, every once in a while we would go out and visit members who were not involved with the church at all and sometimes they would get very hostile that we were bothering them.
In those circumstance we would let them know that if their names were still on the church records they  could get visited again in the future and sometimes we would suggest that they resign.
One lady wrote out her resignation right at the door and handed it to us.

[Teancum]

16 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Personal experience: some years back, I was serving as first counsellor to a bishop who was away about two weeks a month. (I was also working at the university and pursuing a post-PhD diploma at another university at the same time!) Our ward council would spend an hour every Wednesday visiting less-active or lost members, and we would recruit companions during Relief Society and priesthood opening exercises. One week, a brother from Utah who was here on a six-month contract volunteered to be my companion.

Within three minutes of my picking him up, he started pointedly explaining to me that 'in Utah' someone like me would never be allowed to serve in a bishopric because there would be so many better examples to pick from. He literally discussed my lack of fitness to serve and his personal disgust with my calling for the entire drive to our arranged visit. Unreal. So yeah, I have some sense of what you're talking about ...

I am sorry you had that experience.  It reflects poorly on the person who said these things.

[Thinking]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Temple marriage?  Strange if so.

Yes.

[ksfisher]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Temple marriage?  Strange if so.

In my experience there can be a wide variety of appropriate responses to infidelity.  The most common indicator, in my experience again, was the attitude and desire for forgiveness of the sinner.  Repentance and church discipline is not a one size fits all process.

[Maestrophil]

21 hours ago, JAHS said:

I would think that for you, considering your experience, it would be an advantage, since you would perhaps as a Bishop be able to help others that are in similar situations. I wonder how much information is on a person's record that might affect the decision to consider a person who has been divorced.

me too  🙂

[Maestrophil]

20 hours ago, Teancum said:

I think it is sad.  I think the man who served as 1st counselor when I was bishop would have been a wonderful bishop. A more loving spiritual man I did not know.  He had been divorced and that primarily because his first wife had reputedly cheated on him. Even then he tried to make it work but she wanted out.  He  remarried a woman he had dated in high school and they had a wonderful marriage until he died of brain cancer 5 years ago.  But because of his divorce he was not considered.  I know we are not to aspire and believe me being a bishop was one of the hardest things I ever did.  But is was one of the most rewarding and even now and a disaffected member I cherish the time I served and feel fortunate I had that opportunity.

I agree with you that it seems sad that it is a disqualifier for such a brother as you mentioned.  

[Maestrophil]

17 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Personal experience: some years back, I was serving as first counsellor to a bishop who was away about two weeks a month. (I was also working at the university and pursuing a post-PhD diploma at another university at the same time!) Our ward council would spend an hour every Wednesday visiting less-active or lost members, and we would recruit companions during Relief Society and priesthood opening exercises. One week, a brother from Utah who was here on a six-month contract volunteered to be my companion.

Within three minutes of my picking him up, he started pointedly explaining to me that 'in Utah' someone like me would never be allowed to serve in a bishopric because there would be so many better examples to pick from. He literally discussed my lack of fitness to serve and his personal disgust with my calling for the entire drive to our arranged visit. Unreal. So yeah, I have some sense of what you're talking about ...

Same!

By the way, a few years before the above, the first counsellor in our bishopric had his wife leave and then divorce him. He remained faithful throughout and continued to serve with diligence -- to his everlasting credit, in my opinion!

Oh my goodness - what a disheartening experience for you.  What were the things he objected to in you, if I may ask?  

I would hope that we, as members of what we claim to be the most complete version of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, would be able to purge this judgmental culture - especially from higher echelons of leadership.  

[Maestrophil]

20 hours ago, hearserve said:

For what it's worth, my brother was divorced, later married in the temple, and was an ASAC in the FBI.  In spite of these apparent two strikes against him, he was called as a branch president, a bishop and then served as a counselor in the stake presidency.

Was this in Utah?

[bluebell]

12 hours ago, Thinking said:

Anecdotal:

My sister's husband had an affair (among other things). They divorced. He was never excommunicated. Don't know why. He later served as a counselor in the bishopric in a different ward.

I know someone who had multiple affairs (some while he was serving in a bishopric), and who also was not excommunicated.  He was very repentant though (they are still married today and doing great from what I can see) and one of the reasons that he was kept at the ward level was because it was his wife's desire that he not be moved to jurisdiction of the stake and the stake president was ok with that.

It's a lot different than it used to be.

[mbh26]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:20 PM, Calm said:

They would be without a wife and might not have an extended support system in place yet, in the midst of major life upheaval, possibly figuring out how to share custody, and dealing with a life stressor that is second to dealing with the death of a spouse on most life stressor tests (though I wonder if it still is giving much of the stigma is gone).

Anyway, really rotten time to call someone to the position if you want them not to ultimately be found some day curled up behind the desk in the bishop’s office in the fetal position and the ward morale toasted, IMO.

I'm sure being bishop puts an enormous strain on a lot of marriages.  I'm back to the time management thing again.  Some of these guys have six or seven kids, work a full time job, and still manage to meet their wife's expectations.  I don't see how I could possibly please everyone in such a situation even if I were perfectly healthy, slept less than 3 hours/night and worked 100mph nonstop with zero time to do anything I personally to do.  

[rpn]

On 2/14/2022 at 12:39 AM, InCognitus said:

 person who is an active duty police officer?

There is a potential conflict between a bishop who must maintain priest penitent privilege and being a police officer who is not just a mandatory report, but who is obligated to enforce the law.   There is really no way to reconcile both of them and honoring their obligations to both god and man.

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

What were the things he objected to in you, if I may ask?  

Simply that I was single (never married) and serving in a bishopric.