Church Members in California Seeking "Religious Exemption" Forms for Vaccine, Church Saying "Nope."

[pogi]

41 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

It boggles my mind that you quote as evidence of your claim something that refutes your claim.

I was scratching my head at that too.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

This is false and you know it. 

You'll define and redefine documented according to what you're told by your media outlets

I didn't cite a media outlet. 

Another non-media source (bold and underline is mine):

Quote

As of June 11, 2021, approximately 296 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines had been administered in the United States, with 52 million administered to persons aged 12–29 years; of these, 30 million were first and 22 million were second doses. Within the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) (4), the national vaccine safety passive monitoring system, 1,226 reports of myocarditis after mRNA vaccination were received during December 29, 2020–June 11, 2021. Among persons with reported myocarditis after mRNA vaccination, the median age was 26 years (range = 12–94 years), with median symptom onset interval of 3 days after vaccination (range = 0–179). Among 1,194 reports for which patient age was known, 687 were among persons aged <30 years and 507 were among persons aged ≥30 years; of 1,212 with sex reported, 923 were male, and 289 were female.^§§ Among 1,094 patients with number of vaccine doses received reported, 76% occurred after receipt of dose 2 of mRNA vaccine; cases were reported after both Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. Informed by early reports, CDC prioritized rapid review of myocarditis in persons aged <30 years reported during May 1–June 11, 2021; the 484 patient records in this subset were evaluated by physicians at CDC, and several reports were also reviewed with Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Project investigators,^¶¶ including cardiologists. At the time of this report, 323 of these 484 cases were determined to meet criteria in CDC’s case definitions for myocarditis, pericarditis, or myopericarditis by provider interview or medical record review (Table 1). The median age of the 323 patients meeting CDC’s case definitions was 19 years (range = 12−29 years); 291 were male, and 32 were female. The median interval from vaccination to symptom onset was 2 days (range = 0−40 days); 92% of patients experienced onset of symptoms within 7 days of vaccination. Of the 323 persons meeting CDC’s case definitions, 309 (96%) were hospitalized. Acute clinical courses were generally mild; among 304 hospitalized patients with known clinical outcomes, 95% had been discharged at time of review, and none had died.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm

Edited October 6, 2021 by pogi

[pogi]

43 minutes ago, Danzo said:

My brother's father in law just passed away after what appeared to be a reaction from the COVID booster shot.   Acording to what I heard, he started suffereing from multiple organ failure about three hours after recieving the Booster shot They kept him alive for about a week before he passed away.  I am not sure which shot he recieved.  Apparently he hasn't been in good health the last couple of years so that may have played a part.  After the funeral is over and things settle down a bit, I will try and see if I can get more information on the details. 

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.  Let us know more details when you find out. 

[MustardSeed]

54 minutes ago, Danzo said:

My brother's father in law just passed away after what appeared to be a reaction from the COVID booster shot.   Acording to what I heard, he started suffereing from multiple organ failure about three hours after recieving the Booster shot They kept him alive for about a week before he passed away.  I am not sure which shot he recieved.  Apparently he hasn't been in good health the last couple of years so that may have played a part.  After the funeral is over and things settle down a bit, I will try and see if I can get more information on the details. 

Devastating.  I'm so sorry.  My sister in law will be passing today from COVID - what a tremendous loss the earth has felt from all things stemming from this awful virus. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

You are spreading lies that harm real people.

This. My nephew's wife believed (and further spread) these kinds of lies. Now she's lying in an ICU bed.

[Harry T. Clark]

Here is a case reported out of New Zealand regarding a death shortly after getting the Pfizer vaccine.  Vaccine induced myocarditis was the cause of death.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-reports-death-woman-after-pfizer-covid-vaccine-2021-08-30/

 

[pogi]

38 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Here is a case reported out of New Zealand regarding a death shortly after getting the Pfizer vaccine.  Vaccine induced myocarditis was the cause of death.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-reports-death-woman-after-pfizer-covid-vaccine-2021-08-30/

The "first" documented case that I am aware of out of 6.41 billion doses administered globally.  It is so extremely rare that it will make the news every time.  If every covid death was reported in the news - can you imagine?   Zero reported cases in the US with 398 million doses administered. Anyone care to calculate the risk for me? 

I am all about being open and honest with the risks of vaccination (because there are risks), but lets be honest in comparing those risks to the virus. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by pogi

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

Zero reported cases in the US with 398 million doses administered. Anyone care to calculate the risk for me? 

Less than that of being killed in a shark attack according to this website.

https://www.surfandunwind.com/truth-about-shark-attacks/

"according to the International Shark Attack File of the University of Florida’s Museum of Natural History the chances of death by shark in your lifetime are 1 in 3,748,067."

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

That's deaths not adverse reactions, per FDA. You saw VAERS report of over 8,000 deaths. 1% of side effects are reported in VAERS, per Harvard. 

You know what other things have been reported? Electric shocks

Query Criteria:
State / Territory:	The United States/Territories/Unknown
Symptoms:	ELECTRIC SHOCK
Vaccine Products:	COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19)
Group By:	Vaccine
Show Totals:	True
Show Zero Values:	False       COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 1 7.14% COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 7 50.00% COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 6 42.86% Total 14 100.00%

 

 

Also, old people getting pregnant

Query Criteria:
State / Territory:	The United States/Territories/Unknown
Symptoms:	PREGNANCY WITH ADVANCED MATERNAL AGE
Vaccine Products:	COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19)
Group By:	Vaccine
Show Totals:	True
Show Zero Values:	False       COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 1 50.00% COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 1 50.00% Total 2 100.00%

 

Maybe that's how Abraham got Sarah pregnant at such an old age. He gave her a mRNA covid19 vaccination.

There was also a snake bite reported.

Edited October 6, 2021 by JustAnAustralian

[pogi]

22 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

You know what other things have been reported? Electric shocks

Also, old people getting pregnant

Maybe that's how Abraham got Sarah pregnant at such an old age. He gave her a mRNA covid19 vaccination.

There was also a snake bite reported.

Oh, make it stop!  I am laughing too hard. 

[Harry T. Clark]

32 minutes ago, pogi said:

The "first" documented case that I am aware of out of 6.41 billion doses administered globally.  It is so extremely rare that it will make the news every time.  If every covid death was reported in the news - can you imagine?   Zero reported cases in the US with 398 million doses administered. Anyone care to calculate the risk for me? 

I am all about being open and honest with the risks of vaccination (because there are risks), but lets be honest in comparing those risks to the virus. 

 

1. Not so.

Here is a site that tracks the VAERS reports and says that since the vaccine rollout last december, there have been 15,937 deaths reported as being caused by the vaccines.

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/10/01/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-9-24-2021/

Of course, VAERS is just a reporting system and the reports need to be validated.  I wonder if the CDC is doing this?  Does it even have the workforce sufficient to do so?

This link talks about how the CDC and FDA are supposed to investigate if the adverse events pose a sufficient risk.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html

I think over 15,000 reported deaths should raise some eyebrows and cause further investigation. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Harry T. Clark

[pogi]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

No, it doesn't necessarily mean anything to me.  I have been injected twice too and will eventually die of something - your not giving me much info here.  With the vast majority of old, frail, and sick people being vaccinated there are bound to be a significant amount of coincidental deaths at the time surrounding vaccination.  Believe it or not sick, old, frail people die a lot every day.  We have to see if those deaths around vaccination are any greater than average.  They aren't.   What was determined to be the cause of death on their death certificate? 

Do you disagree that with 390 million doses given (especially high percentages among the old, sick, frail, and immunocompromised, and with life threatening comorbidities) in the US there are bound to be thousand of coincidental deaths?

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Here is a site that tracks the VAERS reports and says that since the vaccine rollout last december, there have been 15,937 deaths reported as being caused by the vaccines.

Does the site identify these deaths or just provide the number?  A quick scan did not yield where we could see what these deaths were identified as when reported for ourselves.

[Calm]

Their own “best evidence” page identifying what would be assumed to be unusual deaths seems to offer very few examples and instead rely on unanswered questions as if these unprovided answers somehow proved cause.

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/10/04/the-best-vaers-evidence-of-covid-19-vax-related-deaths/

Quote

Here are our results:

	Search parameters	Number of Covid-19 jab Death Records found
1.	Less than 40 years old; Died within 30 days of injection (or not known); Description mentions phrases like “healthy”, “good health”; Eliminate any record with any comorbidity	29
2.	20 years old or less; Eliminate any record with any comorbidity	47
3.	Description mentions HCP (or other) professional stating causal link is likely	46

(Records which matched multiple categories were counted only once.)

 

They offer this argument, but give no base rates of deaths to show there is actually a difference between what normally happens and what is now happening to the vaccinated.

Quote

How many more “coincidences” need to take place before it becomes mathematically impossible that all the VAERS death records for the Covid jabs are merely coincidences?

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Calm

[Harry T. Clark]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Does the site identify these deaths or just provide the number?  A quick scan did not yield where we could see what these deaths were identified as when reported for ourselves.

VAERS receives reports from people affected by vaccines.  This site aggregates the data from VAERS and then publishes it.  The death number is therefore from people reporting deaths from the vaccine.  However, as I said in my post, these are just reports and it is up to the CDC and FDA to investigate the reports and I wondered if these federal agencies were actually doing that.

[Harry T. Clark]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Their own “best evidence” page identifying what would be assumed to be unusual deaths seems to offer very few examples and instead rely on unanswered questions as if these unprovided answers somehow proved cause.

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/10/04/the-best-vaers-evidence-of-covid-19-vax-related-deaths/

They offer this argument, but give no base rates of deaths to show there is actually a difference between what normally happens and what is now happening to the vaccinated.

 

Well, again, VAERS is merely a site to report adverse events and deaths so the CDC and FDA can then investigate where there are problems. 

I know it is hard to fathom for some, but Pharma makes mistakes and perhaps the vaccines aren't as wonderful as advertised.

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

ell, again, VAERS is merely a site to report adverse events and deaths so the CDC and FDA can then investigate where there are problems.

So your evidence from the website that there are more than 15,000 deaths caused by the vaccines is actually based on speculation.  
 

It is someone else’s job to actually show the speculation is correct, not the speculator?

Quote

ow it is hard to fathom for some, but Pharma makes mistakes and

It is not that hard to fathom at all for me since I think the use of anti Parkinson’s drugs for rls (at least familial) is in the long run a mistake as they cause augmentation in a significant number of those taking them, I believe that presenting them as the first option and Pharma then focusing research on variations of those drugs is an error and one driven by greed as well as desires to help. 
 

But the data is there to support this, not just anecdotes, though there is debate about how widespread it is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21493132/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4718292/

Edited October 6, 2021 by Calm

[Danzo]

41 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you disagree that with 390 million doses given (especially high percentages among the old, sick, frail, and immunocompromised, and with life threatening comorbidities) in the US there are bound to be thousand of coincidental deaths?

We need more data in order to differentiate between deaths with vaccination and deaths from vaccination. Statistics can't tell us the whole story, they can only tell is when to look more closely.

We also need more data to differentiate between deaths with covid and deaths from Covid.

 

 

[Harry T. Clark]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

So your evidence from the website that there are more than 15,000 deaths caused by the vaccines is actually based on speculation.  
 

It is someone else’s job to actually show the speculation is correct, not the speculator?

It is not that hard to fathom at all for me since I think the use of anti Parkinson’s drugs for rls is in the long run a mistake as they cause augmentation in a significant number of those taking them, I believe that presenting them as the first option and Pharma then focusing research on variations of those drugs is an error and one driven by greed as well as desires to help. 
 

But the data is there to support this, not just anecdotes, though there is debate about how widespread it is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21493132/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4718292/

I don't think you understand how the VAERS system was organized to function, perhaps deliberately so.  It is a reporting system, get it?  So, people report and then the CDC and FDA are supposed to investigate the reports from the people.  It kinda functions like when you go to the doctor.  You tell the doctor where it hurts and what symptoms you have, and then the doctor investigates. 

What if there were something to the reported deaths?  Would you accept it?  Could you?

You know Vioxx was approved by the FDA and had to be removed from the market, post-approval, because of the heart conditions caused.  It didn't have the vaccine name attached to it, but still had to be removed because a Pharmaceutical company was too aggressive in getting the drug out to market and the FDA seemingly was asleep at the wheel.

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

VAERS receives reports from people affected by vaccines.  This site aggregates the data from VAERS and then publishes it.  The death number is therefore from people reporting deaths from the vaccine.  However, as I said in my post, these are just reports and it is up to the CDC and FDA to investigate the reports and I wondered if these federal agencies were actually doing that.

The FDA absolutely does investigate those reports.  Why do you think it pulls drugs and vaccines that turn out to be problematic?  It happened with one of the covid-19 vaccines, where distribution was paused because of possible serious side-effects and deaths.  Why would you think that the FDA isn't investigating the reports?

35 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I don't think you understand how the VAERS system was organized to function, perhaps deliberately so.  It is a reporting system, get it?  So, people report and then the CDC and FDA are supposed to investigate the reports from the people.  It kinda functions like when you go to the doctor.  You tell the doctor where it hurts and what symptoms you have, and then the doctor investigates. 

What if there were something to the reported deaths?  Would you accept it?  Could you?

You know Vioxx was approved by the FDA and had to be removed from the market, post-approval, because of the heart conditions caused.  It didn't have the vaccine name attached to it, but still had to be removed because a Pharmaceutical company was too aggressive in getting the drug out to market and the FDA seemingly was asleep at the wheel.

There's a lot of drugs that are pulled after approval because it turns out they had bad side-effects.  Just because some drugs have to be pulled after approval doesn't mean that all drugs are bad.

Luckily, we don't have to take FDA's approval of the covid-19 vaccines.  Almost every country in the world has approved one or more of the vaccines.  Also, we've jabbed 100s of millions of people.  Take a look at other countries and see if they've pulled the vaccines because of increased deaths.  I know that the AstraZeneca shot was suspended from a lot of countries because of bad side-effects but it has been resumed.  I think that's the only vaccine that was problematic.

 

[poptart]

On 10/5/2021 at 4:31 PM, pogi said:

This guy is great.  Thanks for sharing.  

A few others I like.  

 

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

What if there were something to the reported deaths?  Would you accept it?  Could you?

 

If there was, I would. It would not be in my interest or the interest of my extended family or friends to ignore issues with the vaccine anymore that it is in my interest to ignore problems and deaths caused by Covid. 

You keep asking similar questions and some of us have already answered in detail about how we are quite capable of accepting mistakes by Pharma and the government agencies. At this point, you continuing to ask comes across like you are trying to convince readers/lurkers that we are close minded to actual data, etc. rather than actually wanting to know our views.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, poptart said:

A few others I like.  

 

Thanks for sharing, it's thought provoking and I've got a lot to do to help and not hinder others. 

[Calm]

 

Quote

.  The deathnumber is therefore from people reporting deaths from the vaccine. 

Are you sure and if you are, please show examples and how the number was arrived at.
 

I did a search on VAERS reports filter with “death” as a symptom.  Pulled up over 8900 examples. I read the first ten and none of them said the vaccine caused the death. Most were “cause of death unknown”.

CFR (Clark) that VAERS demonstrates over 15,000 deaths were caused by the vaccine as opposed to occurring in association with it in some form. 
 

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/covid-reports

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Well, again, VAERS is merely a site to report adverse events and deaths so the CDC and FDA can then investigate where there are problems. 

I know it is hard to fathom for some, but Pharma makes mistakes and perhaps the vaccines aren't as wonderful as advertised.

You would think with over 6 billion doses administered now you could substantiate that beyond “whataboutism” and one case.