Church Members in California Seeking "Religious Exemption" Forms for Vaccine, Church Saying "Nope."

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

Mind expanding on that a bit for me?  I'd appreciate it.  

The headquarters of the Church is in the US and will remain there. That means that America has a divine role to play in protecting and defending the Church.

[pogi]

3 hours ago, poptart said:

 

This kind of sums up how I feel about a lot of the whole covid thing, I love Franciscans, between them, Dominicans and Jesuits I can't pic a fav.  This guy gives them just enough brownie points from me to almost be #1.

 

This guy is great.  Thanks for sharing.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

I've mentioned once or twice before that my nephew in America married a woman who turned out to be a crazy anti-vaxxer. Before blocking me on Facebook, she publicly posted an angry letter that she had sent to the First Presidency, calling them out for supporting 'magic potions' -- as just one of many examples. She also posted a video from a 'doctor' who was explaining how Covid isn't real but is just an excuse for government to violate personal liberties. I replied by posting another video from the same 'doctor' in which she discusses her past life living in the Lost City of Atlantis. That was when I got blocked. Based on her cover photo, my nephew's wife appears to have adopted a new prophet by the name of Eric Moutsos.

Anyway, a message made it to me last night that both my nephew and his wife now have Covid. He's at home doing OK (for now!), apparently, but she has been hospitalised with Covid pneumonia because she requires mechanical oxygen and 'other' help. 

I genuinely hope she is given an opportunity to return to the living prophets ... and then takes full advantage of that opportunity! (She’s only in her 20s.)

In stark contrast, my housemate learnt Wednesday evening last week that he had worked for three days with a client who was infectious with Delta. He immediately quarantined and was tested twice. Nothing! Vaccines supplemented by other health measures really work!

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[CelestialSeething]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:19 PM, pogi said:

So what?  

were scientists and doctors theatened with losing thier jobs if they questions these other vaccines?  Hmm

Were side effects inclduing death and enlarged heart as prevalent? 

Usually 50 adverse reactions shuts down a vaccine.

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

One of these things is not like the others.

[CelestialSeething]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:30 PM, MustardSeed said:

Yes of course. ? 

were scientists and doctors theatened with losing thier jobs if they questions these other vaccines?  Hmm

Were side effects inclduing death and enlarged heart as prevalent? 

Usually 50 adverse reactions shuts down a vaccine.

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

One of these things is not like the others.

NIH Director resigned due in part to the FOIA re: gain of function in the Wuhan lab which Fauci funded

FDA panel rejected 16-3 Pfizer's application for a third injection for all existing permissible age groups. Probably just conspiracy theorists

I have three relatives who have died in the past month. At what specific number would you say the number of deaths is no longer coincidence?

[MiserereNobis]

30 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

You really need to learn how to understand how VAERS data collection works and what the raw data means. Google: covid vaccine deaths

It's really frustrating that anti-vaxx conspiracy folks like you take some data from the government and try to use it to bolster their views and then ignore what the government has to say about the data because "it's a conspiracy."

So I'm giving a formal CFR and I'm going to HOLD YOU TO IT. Offer a reputable reference that shows that 15,000+ people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine, or retract your claim. If you do not satisfy the CFR, as per board rules, I'm going to report you to the mods.

Edited October 6, 2021 by MiserereNobis

[ksfisher]

6 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

were scientists and doctors theatened with losing thier jobs if they questions these other vaccines?  Hmm

CFR please

 

6 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

Usually 50 adverse reactions shuts down a vaccine.

CFR

 

6 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

CFR

[CelestialSeething]

4 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

You really need to learn how to understand how VAERS data collection works and what the raw data means. Google: covid vaccine deaths

It's really frustrating that anti-vaxx conspiracy folks like you take some data from the government and try to use it to bolster their views and then ignore what the government has to say about the data because "it's a conspiracy."

So I'm giving a formal CFR and I'm going to HOLD YOU TO IT. Offer a reputable reference that shows that 15,000+ people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine, or retract your claim. If you do not satisfy the CFR, as per board rules, I'm going to report you to the mods.

I'm not googling for you.

Hey mods, you can ban me now

[MiserereNobis]

5 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

I'm not googling for you.

Hey mods, you can ban me now

Yes, I know google. Read all of the fact checks from all sorts of different organization on your claim. Your claim is false.

The fact that you just drop in misinformation and refuse to defend it when called out speaks volumes. You are spreading lies that harm real people.

By the way, my CFR still stands. If you believe your claim is true, give a reputable source that claims that over 15,000 people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine. That BECAUSE is very important. You've claimed a causal link. Prove it. The board rules are clear: when given a CFR, you must respond or retract.

I guess I can help you out here: there is no causal link between vaccination and death.

ETA: Actually, I'm wrong. There is a causal link between vaccination and death. The vaccines cause a drastic reduction in covid death...

Edited October 6, 2021 by MiserereNobis

[CelestialSeething]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:27 PM, Stargazer said:

anti-vax or anti-mask polemic

I wish it was. I'd watch it and then verify the data presented, if possible

Of course, then we'd have to watch it somewhere other than youtube, twitter and facebook since they're all jsut so open minded about the debate that leads to scientific progress 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

were scientists and doctors theatened with losing thier jobs if they questions these other vaccines?  Hmm

CFR that anyone has been fired for "questioning" the vaccine.   I doubt anyone was fired for "questioning" other vaccine mandates either, but people have been fired for refusing certain vaccines like MMR where they are mandated.

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

Were side effects inclduing death and enlarged heart as prevalent? 

No enlarged heart, just enlarged brain with the MMR vaccine.  Encephalitis and meningitis.  Of course the risk of these was lower from the vaccine than from natural infection.  The same is true for Covid vaccine and myocarditis in that the risk is much greater for this in natural infection than vaccine.  Death is a rare event with all vaccines - usually from anaphylaxis. 

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

Usually 50 adverse reactions shuts down a vaccine.

 Huh???

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

If you search for deaths reported after other vaccines, you will also find them to be in the thousands in VAERS.

Perhaps you should educate yourself about what VAERS is and does.

Please read:

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

https://www.consumerreports.org/misinformation/government-data-misused-to-question-covid-19-vaccine-safety-a1167679946/

Quote

 

Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

 

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

 

One of these things is not like the others.

Again, I agree.  Covid is WAY more deadly than measles.  Myocarditis form covid vaccine is self-limiting with no long-term consequences.  Encephalitis from MMR vaccine however, has been known to cause long-term irreversible brain damage and even death.   Both are safer than than wild virus though. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by pogi

[ksfisher]

Nice opinion piece here

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/10/6/22708857/utah-covid-19-coronavirus-nurses-overworked-swamped-patients-vaccination

Opinion: My fellow nurses and I are swamped again because you won’t listen to science

Listen to the science.

If you get cancer and a doctor prescribes a course of chemotherapy, you trust that. You don’t say, “I need to know exactly what’s in it!” When you are diagnosed with diabetes, you trust the doctor’s prescription of insulin to regulate your blood sugar because you know that serious, capable professionals have studied it closely and found it to be an effective way to treat you.

Science has given us ways to eradicate smallpox, cure polio and protect ourselves against diphtheria, shingles and the common flu.

That same science has yielded vaccines that are proven to be safe and effective at fighting COVID-19. In particular, the vaccines currently available have shown to be extremely powerful at reducing the likelihood of serious illness, hospitalization and death due to the coronavirus.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

I'm not googling for you.

It's not for him, it is for you - the one spreading deadly lies.  Educate yourself for your own sake.  Find the truth.  I've made it extremely easy for you and have already provided the link to VAERS for you. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by pogi

[CelestialSeething]

28 minutes ago, pogi said:

It's not for him, it is for you - the ignorant and deceived one.  Educate yourself for your own sake.  Find the truth.  I've made it extremely easy for you and have already provided the link to VAERS for you. 

As an ignorant and uneducated one - perhaps an Untouchable - I do enjoy being hunted, labeled, and having my faith questioned. 

I enjoy even more emotional arguments from those who think themselves pogi or handsome as well as educated and.

My body, my choice. Ain't free will a jerk?

For you and Misere, the humble, educated, reason-based among us:

• Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. (nor does it necessarily mean that the vaccine did not contribute as either the confounding or contibuting factor. That's how facts work). A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths pdf icon[1.4 MB, 40 pages].

Probably another anti-vax, anti-health, anti-LDS, conspiracy theorist source, also known as the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

THe bold and underlined text are mine, expcet the pluasible causal relationship between which is from the source text. 

I'm sure you've read about the Harvard study which conlcuded 1% of adverse side effects are reported in VAERS. 

Probably conspiracy theorists as well. 

Why can't they all just line up and do as they're told? 

 

[CelestialSeething]

44 minutes ago, pogi said:

The same is true for Covid vaccine and myocarditis in that the risk is much greater for this in natural infection than vaccine.  Death is a rare event with all vaccines - usually from anaphylaxis.

Yep. Unless anyone anywhere in the world has had relatives who died of myocarditis. 

I'm sure those contributuing factors are meaningless within the realm of science, right?

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

NIH Director resigned due in part to the FOIA re: gain of function in the Wuhan lab which Fauci funded

Oh, really?

From your very own Fox news:

Quote

NIH director says COVID origins controversy has 'nothing' to do with resignation: 'Time for new vision'

"No, it didn’t, Neil," Collins asserted. " Of course people are always looking for some kind of cause and effect here. I want to absolutely assure you and anybody else listening that that had nothing to do with my decision.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nih-director-says-covid-origins-controversy-have-nothing-to-do-with-resignation-time-for-new-vision

 

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

FDA panel rejected 16-3 Pfizer's application for a third injection for all existing permissible age groups. Probably just conspiracy theorists

What do you mean?  Where is the government conspiracy here?  It would be a conspiracy if it was approved but was not needed and had potential risk.  

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

I have three relatives who have died in the past month. At what specific number would you say the number of deaths is no longer coincidence?

What does this have to do with the Covid vaccine? 

[CelestialSeething]

45 minutes ago, pogi said:

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

Usually 50 adverse reactions shuts down a vaccine.

 Huh???

That's deaths not adverse reactions, per FDA. You saw VAERS report of over 8,000 deaths. 1% of side effects are reported in VAERS, per Harvard. 

NIH condusting study on adverse reactions +150K women reported

 

More than 150,000 women respond to survey describing #AdverseReactions from #TheJab including excessive or more frequent bleeding, more pain, and missed periods. Fertility worries abound! Now NIH & UK are investigating.

 

 

National Institutes Of Health Launching Study To See I

[CelestialSeething]

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

NIH Director resigned due in part to the FOIA re: gain of function in the Wuhan lab which Fauci funded

Oh, really?

From your very own Fox news:

Quote

NIH director says COVID origins controversy has 'nothing' to do with resignation: 'Time for new vision'

"No, it didn’t, Neil," Collins asserted. " Of course people are always looking for some kind of cause and effect here. I want to absolutely assure you and anybody else listening that that had nothing to do with my decision.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nih-director-says-covid-origins-controversy-have-nothing-to-do-with-resignation-time-for-new-vision

Expand  

   Wow. Fox News reported that, eh? I'm so surprised a guilty party didn't plead guilty. That's got to be the first time in history.

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

FDA panel rejected 16-3 Pfizer's application for a third injection for all existing permissible age groups. Probably just conspiracy theorists

What do you mean?  Where is the government conspiracy here?  It would be a conspiracy if it was approved but was not needed and had potential risk.  

I mean what I wrote. If there was no problem or no known side effects from the injections, why would the FDA reject the proposal fora third injection for all age groups.  It's not a conspiracy theory. That's what I'm accused of supporting by pointing out things like this. If it helps, add /sarc to: Probably just conspiracy theorists.

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

I have three relatives who have died in the past month. At what specific number would you say the number of deaths is no longer coincidence?

What does this have to do with the Covid vaccine? 

They were all injected, twice. I suppose that means nothing, right? depsite thier varying ages, genders, demographics, climates they lived in, levels of health, etc. 

At what specific number would you say the number of deaths is no longer coincidence?

And at what point might you, I, or others not accept that death is simply part of life and they've gone on to their reward, etc.?

Secretly I'm hoping Biden mandates the injections for all students in public school. That would be all I need to vote with my feet and leave the ever-accomodating blue states to thier own devices. 

 

 

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

Yep. Unless anyone anywhere in the world has had relatives who died of myocarditis. 

No documented case of death from myocarditis from the vaccination.

Quote

 

  These cases have been mild and self-resolving.

There is a higher risk of myocarditis from COVID itself than there is from the vaccine.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/heart-inflammation-covid-19-and-the-rare-side-effects-of-the-vaccine/2021/09

 

I don't see the hospitals being filled with people having reactions from vaccines.  They are unvaccinated people who are being hospitalized and dying. 

How more plain does the truth need to be.

Why do you ignore the fact that myocarditis is a MUCH greater risk from Covid than from the vaccine?

[CelestialSeething]

Just now, pogi said:

No documented case of death from myocarditis from the vaccination.

This is false and you know it. 

You'll define and redefine documented according to what you're told by your media outlets

[MiserereNobis]

10 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

As an ignorant and uneducated one - perhaps an Untouchable - I do enjoy being hunted, labeled, and having my faith questioned. 

I enjoy even more emotional arguments from those who think themselves pogi or handsome as well as educated and.

My body, my choice. Ain't free will a jerk?

For you and Misere, the humble, educated, reason-based among us:

• Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 390 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 27, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,164 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. (nor does it necessarily mean that the vaccine did not contribute as either the confounding or contibuting factor. That's how facts work). A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths pdf icon[1.4 MB, 40 pages].

Probably another anti-vax, anti-health, anti-LDS, conspiracy theorist source, also known as the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

THe bold and underlined text are mine, expcet the pluasible causal relationship between which is from the source text. 

I'm sure you've read about the Harvard study which conlcuded 1% of adverse side effects are reported in VAERS. 

Probably conspiracy theorists as well. 

Why can't they all just line up and do as they're told? 

 

Thank you for attempting to answer the CFR. However, you said:

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

You understand there have been, according to VAERS, over 15,000 deaths from this vaccine, right?

You linked the two causally. You said that the vaccine caused over 15,000 deaths. The CDC explicitly states in the article that you quoted that there is not a causal link established. It boggles my mind that you quote as evidence of your claim something that refutes your claim.

Further in your article, it says that there is a plausible causal relationship between J&J and TTS. TTS however did not cause 15,000 deaths, which was your claim.

My CFR has not been answered. You need to retract your claim that the vaccine has caused 15,000 deaths (or find a reputable source that says so).

[smac97]

10 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

This is false and you know it. 

You'll define and redefine documented according to what you're told by your media outlets

Car, please, re: "documented case of death from myocarditis from the vaccination."

[MiserereNobis]

11 minutes ago, CelestialSeething said:

You'll define and redefine documented according to what you're told by your media outlets

🙄

[Danzo]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

No documented case of death from myocarditis from the vaccination.

I don't see the hospitals being filled with people having reactions from vaccines.  They are unvaccinated people who are being hospitalized and dying. 

How more plain does the truth need to be.

Why do you ignore the fact that myocarditis is a MUCH greater risk from Covid than from the vaccine?

My brother's father in law just passed away after what appeared to be a reaction from the COVID booster shot.   Acording to what I heard, he started suffereing from multiple organ failure about three hours after recieving the Booster shot They kept him alive for about a week before he passed away.  I am not sure which shot he recieved.  Apparently he hasn't been in good health the last couple of years so that may have played a part.  After the funeral is over and things settle down a bit, I will try and see if I can get more information on the details. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CelestialSeething said:

They were all injected, twice. I suppose that means nothing, right?

No, it doesn't necessarily mean anything to me.  I have been injected twice too and will eventually die of something - your not giving me much info here.  With the vast majority of old, frail, and sick people being vaccinated there are bound to be a significant amount of coincidental deaths at the time surrounding vaccination.  Believe it or not sick, old, frail people die a lot every day.  We have to see if those deaths around vaccination are any greater than average.  They aren't.   What was determined to be the cause of death on their death certificate? 

Edited October 6, 2021 by pogi