Duncan Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 Would it be fair to say that the spirits in Spirit prison are people who rejected Christ here when they were in mortality and those bad people who never heard of of the Gospel while in mortality. I suppose too that the Gospel in being preached in Paradise to good people who never heard of the Gospel or had a chance to accept it?
RevTestament Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 John 5:24 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and abelieveth on him that sent me, hath everlasting blife, and shall not come into ccondemnation; but is passed from ddeath unto elife. It seems that to have life one must accept Yeshua, and Heavenly Father. I interpret that as passing directly into spirit paradise. It would seem then that everyone else passes into spirit prison, and will pay a price for their sin. This does not really comport with the Catholic idea of purgatory in which everyone goes to purgatory and pays for their sin, because to me Christ is saying those who follow pass into life without condemnation. I'm sure Catholics have some rationale for their ideas, but to me it doesn't compute with what Yeshua says. Anyway, we don't seem to have any more detail than this from scripture to support your idea that good people who did not accept Christ go to paradise. It seems to me they must suffer some Hell, because only those who repent of their sins are forgiven, and have no penalty to pay. The good news is that the spirit prison of hell is not permanent. My interpretation is further supported by Revelation which says Rev 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Again we are not specifically told the rest of the dead are in hell awaiting resurrection, but it seems to me all those in paradise would be resurrected and live with Christ. To do this it seems they must be His. To be His they must have entered His covenant. So while the rest will have to suffer some hell, the good news for them is they can serve their punishment, and accept the gospel to be freed from death until after the last judgment.
Nevo Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, Duncan said: Would it be fair to say that the spirits in Spirit prison are people who rejected Christ here when they were in mortality and those bad people who never heard of of the Gospel while in mortality. I suppose too that the Gospel in being preached in Paradise to good people who never heard of the Gospel or had a chance to accept it? I'd like that to be the Church's doctrine, but I don't think it is. Quote Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/hell?lang=eng) 2
Calm Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 If Paradise means we have to have perfect understanding of the gospel and be perfect, I suspect we all start out in Spirit Prison. But I see no reason to assume it is unpleasant for anyone, more like college than jail for those willing and eager to learn. Otoh, if intention to accept God is enough and we can learn about the details after we have accepted the principle of the Atonement in our hearts, maybe there will be a lot of schooling/learning going on in Paradise as well rather than everyone being the teacher of those in Spirit Prison. It will be Hell for those who don’t want to learn, the disobedient ones, whether because they have to deal personally with the errors of their ways until they are fit to receive glory of the Telestial...which if they are disobedient is going to take time for their hearts and minds to accept...or because they can’t stand the learning process itself (think people who hate school or being corrected by anyone now). Maybe the Spirit World is just one place we all are interacting with each other and it is how we feel about it and our role in it that makes the differences we label paradise (teachers and postgraduates still learning, sharing knowledge they already have), spirit prison (freshman to seniors), hell (those taking the remedial classes dealing with social behaviour with a lot of personal counseling on the side to help them develop to the point of being capable to take the regular classes). 1
Duncan Posted June 21, 2020 Author Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Calm said: If Paradise means we have to have perfect understanding of the gospel and be perfect, I suspect we all start out in Spirit Prison. But I see no reason to assume it is unpleasant for anyone, more like college than jail for those willing and eager to learn. Otoh, if intention to accept God is enough and we can learn about the details after we have accepted the principle of the Atonement in our hearts, maybe there will be a lot of schooling/learning going on in Paradise as well rather than everyone being the teacher of those in Spirit Prison. It will be Hell for those who don’t want to learn, the disobedient ones, whether because they have to deal personally with the errors of their ways until they are fit to receive glory of the Telestial...which if they are disobedient is going to take time for their hearts and minds to accept...or because they can’t stand the learning process itself (think people who hate school or being corrected by anyone now). Maybe the Spirit World is just one place we all are interacting with each other and it is how we feel about it and our role in it that makes the differences we label paradise (teachers and postgraduates still learning, sharing knowledge they already have), spirit prison (freshman to seniors), hell (those taking the remedial classes dealing with social behaviour with a lot of personal counseling on the side to help them develop to the point of being capable to take the regular classes). would the teachers then be latter-day saints or people who became LDS who accepted the Gospel? I would imagine even they would be still learning though. Like, if Joe Quimby of Manti Utah died today, 89 years old, LDS, i'd assume he would become a teacher to those who have never heard or less valiant Edited June 21, 2020 by Duncan
Stargazer Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 It's very unclear to me. Or, at least, I am somewhat hard-pressed to come up with a filter. Who's in paradise, who's in prison, and what is the selector algorithm? The repentant thief at Golgatha was in paradise. Presumably his unrepentant counterpart wasn't. 1
Calm Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stargazer said: The repentant thief at Golgatha was in paradise By this standard (which is the one I see as most probable) it would seem the only knowledge required is that Christ is Lord and to accept him as such, thus giving us access to the Atonement...but learning what all that means would still need to occur...but learning might occur as an info dump into our brains rather than how we learn now. Edited June 21, 2020 by Calm
strappinglad Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 We are all in " earth prison" right now. There are ways to imprison ourselves deeper in this prison through sinning and drugs etc. There are ways to ' free ' ourselves here also through repentance and righteous living. At least that is how I read Strappinglad 3 : 7 . 😁 3
rpn Posted June 21, 2020 Posted June 21, 2020 No. Everyone who hasn't been baptized or resurrected is in Spirit Prison. Those who are righteous are probably physically in Spirit Prison teaching everyone who actually is assigned there, but they are assigned to Paradise.
InCognitus Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Duncan said: Would it be fair to say that the spirits in Spirit prison are people who rejected Christ here when they were in mortality and those bad people who never heard of of the Gospel while in mortality. I suppose too that the Gospel in being preached in Paradise to good people who never heard of the Gospel or had a chance to accept it? We probably all get hung up on the word "prison", since we tend to think of a prison as a jail, penitentiary, detention center, or correctional facility that is used to forcibly hold inmates for committing crimes, and it is hard to imagine faulting someone for never having heard the gospel and making it a crime worthy of such punishment. I do believe the word is intended to convey the meaning of detainment, but not necessarily because of laws that were broken by the individuals. When Jesus began his ministry, he quoted Isaiah 61:1-2: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord" (Isaiah 61:1–2, also Luke 4:18-19) Several modern prophets and apostles have connected this "opening of the prison" with them receiving temple ordinances like baptism for the dead. For example, Joseph Smith taught: Quote In regard to the law of the Priesthood, there should be a place where all nations shall come up from time to time to receive their endowments; and the Lord has said this shall be the place for the baptisms for the dead. Every man that has been baptized and belongs to the kingdom has a right to be baptized for those who have gone before; and as soon as the law of the Gospel is obeyed here by their friends who act as proxy for them, the Lord has administrators there to set them free. A man may act as proxy for his own relatives; the ordinances of the Gospel which were laid out before the foundations of the world have thus been fulfilled by them, and we may be baptized for those whom we have much friendship for; but it must first be revealed to the man of God, lest we should run too far. “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;” all shall be raised from the dead. The Lamb of God hath brought to pass the resurrection, so that all shall rise from the dead. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 367) Here's another from Joseph Smith: Quote When speaking about the blessings pertaining to the Gospel, and the consequences connected with disobedience to the requirements, we are frequently asked the question, what has become of our fathers? Will they all be damned for not obeying the Gospel, when they never heard it? Certainly not. But they will possess the same privilege that we here enjoy, through the medium of the everlasting Priesthood, which not only administers on earth, but also in heaven, and the wise dispensations of the great Jehovah; hence those characters referred to by Isaiah will be visited by the Priesthood, and come out of their prison upon the same principle as those who were disobedient in the days of Noah were visited by our Savior [who possessed the everlasting Melchizedek Priesthood] and had the Gospel preached to them by Him in prison; and in order that they might fulfill all the requisitions of God, living friends were baptized for their dead friends, and thus fulfilled the requirement of God, which says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God," they were baptized of course, not for themselves, but for their dead. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Four 1839–42, p.221) More succinctly, WIlford Woodruff said, "We are required to build Temples in which to attend to the ordinances of the house of the Lord, that the prison doors may be opened, and the prisoners go free". (Journal of Discourses, vol 18: p. 115) And finally, President Nelson has taught, "At home, with the aid of a computer or mobile device, you can identify souls who are yearning for their ordinances. Make the Sabbath a delight by finding your ancestors and liberating them from spirit prison!" (General Conference, April 2015, The Sabbath is a Delight) So based on this framework, it would seem that spirit "prison" is made up of all who have not received the ordinances of the gospel, regardless of whether they have heard the gospel or not previously. They simply cannot progress any further without those ordinances and they are detained. In addition, it would likely include those who may have received ordinances but broke their covenants in serious ways, but none of the quotes above deal with that aspect of spirit prison. I think there is room here for speculation about what it means to be in "paradise" and what divisions there are within the "spirit prison", because it would not make sense to throw the wicked together with the people who lived good lives according to the light and knowledge given to them. 3
teddyaware Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, InCognitus said: We probably all get hung up on the word "prison", since we tend to think of a prison as a jail, penitentiary, detention center, or correctional facility that is used to forcibly hold inmates for committing crimes, and it is hard to imagine faulting someone for never having heard the gospel and making it a crime worthy of such punishment. I do believe the word is intended to convey the meaning of detainment, but not necessarily because of laws that were broken by the individuals. When Jesus began his ministry, he quoted Isaiah 61:1-2: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord" (Isaiah 61:1–2, also Luke 4:18-19) Several modern prophets and apostles have connected this "opening of the prison" with them receiving temple ordinances like baptism for the dead. For example, Joseph Smith taught: Here's another from Joseph Smith: More succinctly, WIlford Woodruff said, "We are required to build Temples in which to attend to the ordinances of the house of the Lord, that the prison doors may be opened, and the prisoners go free". (Journal of Discourses, vol 18: p. 115) And finally, President Nelson has taught, "At home, with the aid of a computer or mobile device, you can identify souls who are yearning for their ordinances. Make the Sabbath a delight by finding your ancestors and liberating them from spirit prison!" (General Conference, April 2015, The Sabbath is a Delight) So based on this framework, it would seem that spirit "prison" is made up of all who have not received the ordinances of the gospel, regardless of whether they have heard the gospel or not previously. They simply cannot progress any further without those ordinances and they are detained. In addition, it would likely include those who may have received ordinances but broke their covenants in serious ways, but none of the quotes above deal with that aspect of spirit prison. I think there is room here for speculation about what it means to be in "paradise" and what divisions there are within the "spirit prison", because it would not make sense to throw the wicked together with the people who lived good lives according to the light and knowledge given to them. Very good summary. Interestingly enough, according to President Joseph F Smith, even the blessed spirits in the paradise of God eventually come to feel as if they, too, are in prison. 50 For the dead (I.e. the prophets of old) had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage. (D&C 138) The next verses from from Joseph F Smith’s vision I’ll quote clearly indicate the reason why so many of the dead experience spiritual darkness while the world of departed spirits is directly related to the fact that they have not as yet come unto Christ in faith, accepted the gospel, sincerely repented, and thereby received a remission of their sins. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. (D&C 138) From the above, it’s plain to see that the bondage or imprisonment experienced by the departed spirits in the spirit world is directly related to the fact that they are in bondage to unforgiven sin and It’s attendant spiritual blindness. The same holds true whether we are speaking of those who died in ignorance of the gospel message, or those who had previously rejected the gospel when it was taught to them by the Lord’s prophets while in the flesh. 57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.(D&C138) Again, the essence of the spirit prison experience is the bondage to unforgiven personal sin that one can only be delivered from by exercising faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repenting, obtaining a remission of sins, and receiving the enlightening and empowering influence of the Holy Spirit that enables the recipient to live a holy life. 33 These (sinners who either died in ignorance of the redeeming gospel message or in rebellion against the same) were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, (D&C 138) Eventually all will embrace the gospel of Christ except for the sons of perdition who will continue to reject Christ and utterly refuse to repent of the sins that hold them in bondage until it is everlasting too late. Edited June 23, 2020 by teddyaware
stemelbow Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 Curious. A passage was discussed here recently--found in Mosiah 26. When is it that God puts people on his left or right? Is that after their time in prison? Meaning, after we die, we sit in prison or paradise and all of those whom God never knew, or chose not to know, sitting in prison are burned like the devil? Quote And it shall come to pass that when the second trump shall sound then shall they that never knew me come forth and shall stand before me. And then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, that I am their Redeemer; but they would not be redeemed. And then I will confess unto them that I never knew them; and they shall depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels So there will be many of us who live our mortal lives, die, thinking we are on God's side (meaning repenting, praying, going to Church etc), but will find ourselves in this prison. After time there, we will still think we are on GOd's side, as they say, but when faced with God He will report that He never knew us? Or never attempted to know us, and either way will send us off to be burned? How does a believer ever know if he or she is one whom God never really attempted to know?
Duncan Posted June 22, 2020 Author Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, InCognitus said: We probably all get hung up on the word "prison", since we tend to think of a prison as a jail, penitentiary, detention center, or correctional facility that is used to forcibly hold inmates for committing crimes, and it is hard to imagine faulting someone for never having heard the gospel and making it a crime worthy of such punishment. I do believe the word is intended to convey the meaning of detainment, but not necessarily because of laws that were broken by the individuals. When Jesus began his ministry, he quoted Isaiah 61:1-2: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord" (Isaiah 61:1–2, also Luke 4:18-19) Several modern prophets and apostles have connected this "opening of the prison" with them receiving temple ordinances like baptism for the dead. For example, Joseph Smith taught: Here's another from Joseph Smith: More succinctly, WIlford Woodruff said, "We are required to build Temples in which to attend to the ordinances of the house of the Lord, that the prison doors may be opened, and the prisoners go free". (Journal of Discourses, vol 18: p. 115) And finally, President Nelson has taught, "At home, with the aid of a computer or mobile device, you can identify souls who are yearning for their ordinances. Make the Sabbath a delight by finding your ancestors and liberating them from spirit prison!" (General Conference, April 2015, The Sabbath is a Delight) So based on this framework, it would seem that spirit "prison" is made up of all who have not received the ordinances of the gospel, regardless of whether they have heard the gospel or not previously. They simply cannot progress any further without those ordinances and they are detained. In addition, it would likely include those who may have received ordinances but broke their covenants in serious ways, but none of the quotes above deal with that aspect of spirit prison. I think there is room here for speculation about what it means to be in "paradise" and what divisions there are within the "spirit prison", because it would not make sense to throw the wicked together with the people who lived good lives according to the light and knowledge given to them. wow, Thank you!!!!!! Would you say then that Paradise is for those who had their ordinances done? whether in this life or the next?
strappinglad Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 Most of us have met a person who thinks stubbornness is a virtue, who will not be told what to do by anyone, who, if saving needs to be done , will save themselves, thank you very much. These are the " stiff-necked ones" talked about in the scriptures. They will bow the knee to no one. I think spirit prison has a few of those in it. Paradise has people who have accepted or will accept Christ as their Redeemer. As for ordinances, who did the ordinances for the thief before he went to paradise? 1
Duncan Posted June 23, 2020 Author Posted June 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, strappinglad said: Most of us have met a person who thinks stubbornness is a virtue, who will not be told what to do by anyone, who, if saving needs to be done , will save themselves, thank you very much. These are the " stiff-necked ones" talked about in the scriptures. They will bow the knee to no one. I think spirit prison has a few of those in it. Paradise has people who have accepted or will accept Christ as their Redeemer. As for ordinances, who did the ordinances for the thief before he went to paradise? I doubt anyone would have done his work as work for the dead wasn't commonly done, IIRC Brigham Young saying that endowments were done in Solomon's Temple but not many
InCognitus Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Duncan said: wow, Thank you!!!!!! Would you say then that Paradise is for those who had their ordinances done? whether in this life or the next? I had in mind to say that the word "Paradise" has an ambiguous meaning (which it does - and I'll explain further below). But then I noticed that Joseph Smith said pretty much what I was going to say, except with more authority than me: Quote Paradise I will say something about the spirits in prison. There has been much said by modern divines about the words of Jesus (when on the cross) to the thief, saying, “This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” King James’ translators make it out to say paradise. But what is paradise? It is a modern word: it does not answer at all to the original word that Jesus made use of. Find the original of the word paradise. You may as easily find a needle in a haymow. Here is a chance for battle, ye learned men. There is nothing in the original word in Greek from which this was taken that signifies paradise; but it was—This day thou shalt be with me in the world of spirits: then I will teach you all about it and answer your inquiries. And Peter says he went and preached to the world of spirits (spirits in prison, 1 Peter, 3rd chap. 19th verse), so that they who would receive it could have it answered by proxy by those who live on the earth, etc. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843–44, p.309) And he also says (completely relevant to this entire discussion): Quote The World of Spirits It always has been when a man was sent of God with the priesthood and he began to preach the fullness of the gospel, that he was thrust out by his friends, who are already to butcher him if he teach things which they imagine to be wrong; and Jesus was crucified upon this principle. I will now turn linguist. There are many things in the Bible which do not, as they now stand, accord with the revelations of the Holy Ghost to me. I will criticise a little further. There has been much said about the word hell, and the sectarian world have preached much about it, describing it to be a burning lake of fire and brimstone. But what is hell? It is another modern term, and is taken from hades. I’ll hunt after hades as Pat did for the woodchuck. Hades, the Greek, or Sheol, the Hebrew, these two significations mean a world of spirits. Hades, Sheol, paradise, spirits in prison, are all one: it is a world of spirits. The righteous and the wicked all go to the same world of spirits until the resurrection. “I do not think so,” says one. If you will go to my house any time, I will take my lexicon and prove it to you.The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers. “But,” says one, “I believe in one universal heaven and hell, where all go, and are all alike, and equally miserable or equally happy.” What! where all are huddled together—the honorable, virtuous, and murderers, and whoremongers, when it is written that they shall be judged according to the deeds done in the body? But St. Paul informs us of three glories and three heavens. He knew a man that was caught up to the third heavens. Now, if the doctrine of the sectarian world, that there is but one heaven, is true, Paul, what do you tell that lie for, and say there are three? Jesus said unto His disciples, “In my Father’s house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and I will come and receive you to myself, that where I am ye may be also.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843–44, p.310) The word for paradise in Greek is an old Persian word that simply refers to an enclosure or garden park-like place, or a place of blessedness. The Greek Old Testament [Septuagint] uses the word to describe the Garden of Eden and several palace garden places. It's used in these verses: Gen 2:8, 9, 10, 15, 16, Gen 3:1, 2, 3, 8, 10, 23, 24 (all the previous in reference to the Garden of Eden), Gen 13:10, Numbers 24:6, 2 Chron 33:20, Neh 2:8, Eccl 2:5, Isa 1:30, Isa 51:3, Jer 36:6, Ezek 28:13, Ezek 31:8, 9, and Joel 2:3. So the word in and of itself doesn't demand that it be "heaven" or a place of righteousness. It could be anywhere that seems like "paradise", really. So I would say that "paradise" could even conceivably be a portion of the "spirit prison" in the spirit world. Or as Joseph Smith says above, it can just refer to the entirety of the world of spirits. Edited June 23, 2020 by InCognitus 2
The Nehor Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 It offends our sensibilities but I have it on good authority that spirit prison/hell is an unpleasant place.
Ahab Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/21/2020 at 8:33 AM, Duncan said: Would it be fair to say that the spirits in Spirit prison are people who rejected Christ here when they were in mortality and those bad people who never heard of of the Gospel while in mortality. I suppose too that the Gospel in being preached in Paradise to good people who never heard of the Gospel or had a chance to accept it? That would be like our church meetings, where we preach Jesus Christ to each other. The good people also go to spirit prison to preach to the captives to tell them what they can do to be saved and/or be free. 1
Maidservant Posted June 24, 2020 Posted June 24, 2020 We are all in spirit prison. Until we are not. Christ is the pathway from one to the other. Whatever world we may find ourselves in. One neighbor may be in (spirit) prison; one may not be. They may dine at the same table and look at the same stars, even have a conversation with one another; but they will be in different worlds. Until they both and each find their greatest peace. 2
mfbukowski Posted June 24, 2020 Posted June 24, 2020 15 hours ago, Maidservant said: We are all in spirit prison. Until we are not. Christ is the pathway from one to the other. Whatever world we may find ourselves in. One neighbor may be in (spirit) prison; one may not be. They may dine at the same table and look at the same stars, even have a conversation with one another; but they will be in different worlds. Until they both and each find their greatest peace. Brilliant as usual
2BizE Posted June 24, 2020 Posted June 24, 2020 I think it is a symbolic place and not actually real. The spirit prison is a way for us members to justify our construct of being in a better religion than others’.
JAHS Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) On 6/21/2020 at 10:43 AM, Stargazer said: It's very unclear to me. Or, at least, I am somewhat hard-pressed to come up with a filter. Who's in paradise, who's in prison, and what is the selector algorithm? The repentant thief at Golgatha was in paradise. Presumably his unrepentant counterpart wasn't. Jesus said to the thief "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." I think all those who die go to Paradise initially, where Jesus and God the Father are and are judged as to whether they should remain in paradise or be placed in spirit prison. To me this explains why Jesus said that to someone who has not heard of the gospel yet. This assumes of course that they are actual separate places rather than some kind of state of mind. "I will say something about the spirits in prison," Joseph Smith said. "There has been much said by modern divines about the words of Jesus (when on the cross) to the thief, saying, 'This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.' King James' translators make it out to say paradise. But what is paradise? It is a modern word: it does not answer at all to the original word that Jesus made use of. Find the original of the word paradise. . . . There is nothing in the original word in Greek from which this was taken that signifies paradise; but it was—This day thou shalt be with me in the world of spirits: then I will teach you all about it and answer your inquiries." (Teachings, p. 309.) Edited June 25, 2020 by JAHS Add Joseph Smith' remarks 1
teddyaware Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 2 hours ago, 2BizE said: I think it is a symbolic place and not actually real. The spirit prison is a way for us members to justify our construct of being in a better religion than others’. Please elaborate? To me, the above statement appears baseless and poorly reasoned. . 1
Maidservant Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Brilliant as usual You are kind.
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