What Can the Church do to Promote Anti-racism in America?

[cherryTreez]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Pulling down a few more monuments to the Confederacy would be nice.

You can't delete our history. Americans died on both sides during the civil war. It wasn't only about slavery.  If you try to cover up or rewrite the history then no one will ever learn from it. I have three ancestors that died in the civil war. One was just 18. Many others fought and lived.   Oh they fought for the north if that matters. 

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Thanks for your recollections of the ERA involvement. I'll say one thing, but not intending to debate the proposed amendment, except to consider this: IF the ERA could help women, then it would inevitably help Black women, which would be part of potential progress.

I love the example of citizens' watch group for courthouses. There are grass roots efforts like this--I have a friend orchestrating campaigns for her community on several fronts in her city. When I first got to know her 13 years ago she was a young mom seeking help out of an abusive marriage with the ability to worry about little else. She's done so much since: organised a food pantry that is very productive, which has received grants to enable an independent building, just within the last several years, she's started a police department transparency page that is like a citizens' watch for the local police, and she runs a charity network where folk can seek help at critical times of need. And much more. She's a force. But more are needed.

Church growth in African countries may indeed be a source of major change with also powerful impact. Many African countries are also dealing with major racist strife which may also benefit from specific, careful participation of members there.

Most police depts have a ride-along program.  Young people (or older people) can go to a dept and request a ride-along.  Just for a few hours or even a whole shift.  Police will usually come by your place and pick you up.  It is important to follow the instructions of the patrolman.  If there is trouble, you must usually stay in the car for your own safety.  A college or high school student could write a report on it for a class.  The same applies to attending a city council meeting, or attending a session of the county commission.  Find out what is going on and write a report on it.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

But the photos in the meme show peaceful protests and still nothing changed.

Not only not much changed but in at least some cases they were criticized by many saying those peaceful protests were inappropriate, it should stop, and they needed to do something else if they wanted change.

If someone keeps being told nothing they do is appropriate when they speak up, they will stop caring about what they are told.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, cherryTreez said:

You can't delete our history. Americans died on both sides during the civil war. It wasn't only about slavery.  If you try to cover up or rewrite the history then no one will ever learn from it. I have three ancestors that died in the civil war. One was just 18. Many others fought and lived.   Oh they fought for the north if that matters. 

It isn't about deleting, it is about not honoring something that shouldn't be honored.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

I may have heard it from those sources, but I think I managed to not be influenced too much by any of them. 

Fortunately and unfortunately learning continues into adulthood.  Surely you were aware of race and what it meant.  Whether or not you assume that certain attributes are shared by races doesn't require any exposure to a particular race.

Not saying this is you, just presenting a scenario where racism appears after an upbringing like you described.

A person can get taught intentionally or unintentionally that race means commonalities.  They may never have met a white person before in their lives, but as an adult they travel to the US and happen to run into some white guy on a subway who attempts to fondle a woman, he has a few friends who are sniggering and the rest of the car are ignoring it.  He speaks up and gets pushed around for his trouble.  Because of his understanding of race, even though his family never had a negative word to say about whites before...didn't even mention them for that matter as irrelevant to their lives, he now assumes that whites in general are sexual deviants and all around jerks.

A protected childhood may not have insulated/immunized you from racism, it just didn't expose you to it.  It would be wise not to assume it protected you, imo.

I know someone who was assaulted in their 30s iirc (beaten up iirc) and later developed quite racist attitudes where they didn't appear to have them before, possibly because they simply later assumed others of that race were violent or criminal as well and because they were then sensitized to both race and violence they believed they were seeing it everywhere because actual encounters were emotionally inflated, thus intensifying their fear and turning it into full on racism.  

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

One funny anecdote: A group of protesters were trying to tear down an obelisk that was put up as a Confederate monument. An Egyptology professor came on Twitter and said:

It tickles me that a study of Egyptology has possibly become useful in bringing down a Confederate monument. They have not tried it yet. The mayor showed up and told them they hated the thing too and would try to get rid of it again. The mayor is probably sincere. At one point the city ordered it covered but the state legislature started fining the city for it.

For a more complete success story...

 

I love this board.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm

[halconero]

1 hour ago, cherryTreez said:

You can't delete our history.

Most of those statues are relatively new, when groups like the Daughters of the Confederacy funded them to go along with their push for "Lost Cause" education in school.

Quote

Americans died on both sides during the civil war.

During the war, the soldiers of one side did not consider themselves citizens of the United States.

Quote

It wasn't only about slavery.

It really was. As outlined by the cornerstone speech and several Confederate state constitutions, the power the CSA sought was to maintain slavery within its borders. When they felt that power was threatened, they first tried to exercise authority over the Northern States by overriding their laws with federal legislation like the Fugitive Slave Act, which undermines the idea that it was ever about state sovereignty. The Executive Branch of the CSA was also far more powerful than the EB in the Union, with one of the most striking examples being the the line-item veto by the President.

Confederate military victories also concentrated on expanding slavery. Confederate war hero Robert E. Lee enslaved free blacks during his invasion of Pennsylvania. He also considered slavery to be a moral evil for white people more than black people, with the former being burdened to carry out the education of black people. When his father-in-law freed his slaves upon his death, Lee went to court to keep them as slaves so he could pay off debt. When some tried to escape, he whipped them fifty times each, and poured brine onto their backs.

Quote

  If you try to cover up or rewrite the history then no one will ever learn from it.

Put up statues to Southern Unionists or Abolitionists. I can think of several:

- William G. Brownlow - Governor and then Senator from Tennessee. Used the state government to enfranchise Black Americans and fought the Ku Klux Klan.

- William Crutchfield - Union spy from Tennesee and later Congressman there.

- Andrew Jackson Hamilton - Governor of Texas. Born in Alabama, aligned himself with the Radical Republicans, criticized slave power and opposed re-opening of the slave trade, fought with the Union. As Governor, he used state power to support suffrage and economic emancipation of Black Americans.

- William Woods Holden - Governor of North Carolina. Impeached because he formed a state militia to fight the Ku Klux Klan. Posthumously pardoned for his impeachment.

- Joseph Holt - Judge Advocate General of the US Army. Born in Kentucky. Kept Kentucky in the Union and became a vigorous supporter of emancipation.

- Newton Knight - Founded the "Free State of Jones" in Mississippi. Married to a freedwoman, overthrew the Confederate government in his county. Fought a guerilla campaign against the Confederacy.

- John Ancrum Winslow - US Navy Officer, born in North Carolina. Abolitionist, and famous for sinking the CSS Alabama.

- Montgomery C. Meigs - Career US Army officer and engineer. Quartermaster General, and probably the one who can be most credited with winning the war. Born in Georgia. Detested the Confederacy, and confiscated Robert E. Lee's property to form the Arlington National Cemetery. Insisted that the design of the Pension Building include a teamster who was a plantation slave freed by the war, and must be centered over the entrance.

- Francis Pierpont - Founder of West Virginia, in which he also abolished slavery.

- Elizabeth Van Lew - Prominent Virginian, who built and operated a major spy ring for the Union during the war. Freed her father's slaves immediately upon his death, paid them to work for her, and used her entire inheritance to purchase the relatives of these former-slaves-turned-employees. Regularly went to the slave market to look for families about to be split up, buy them up, and then free them.

- John Harlan - SCOTUS Justice. Kentuckian. Called the "Great Dissenter" for writing the dissenting opinion on cases that went against integration, economic emancipation, expanding income tax, or expansive use of antitrust.

Quote

I have three ancestors that died in the civil war. One was just 18. Many others fought and lived.   Oh they fought for the north if that matters. 

The US Civil War was a tragedy for many reasons. Honouring those who fought to uphold slavery dilutes, rather than strengthens the tragedy of it. Lives were lost defending a horrid institution that split up families, sought to extend its power West and North, and had aggressive tendencies both in its initial attacks as well as it subsequent offensive actions. The US would do well to celebrate the heroes that upheld Union and Abolition, and mourn the loss of soldiers and the history of slavery through less-heroic monuments and more-mournful ones akin to the Vimy Ridge Memorial, Auschwitz, or the Berlin Holocaust Memorial. There's little use honouring men like Jefferson Davis, Nathan Bedford Forrest, or Robert E. Lee.

Edited June 2, 2020 by halconero

[Calm]

6 hours ago, smac97 said:

I'm all for discussing proposals to improve the system.  Before that, however, the rioting and the looting need to stop.

What is your response to someone who says "I'm all for discussing proposals to improve the system.  Before that, however, the killing of black men by police needs to stop"? 

[USU78]

Appalling judginess. 

[JAHS]

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

Fortunately and unfortunately learning continues into adulthood.  Surely you were aware of race and what it meant.  Whether or not you assume that certain attributes are shared by races doesn't require any exposure to a particular race.

Not saying this is you, just presenting a scenario where racism appears after an upbringing like you described.

A person can get taught intentionally or unintentionally that race means commonalities.  They may never have met a white person before in their lives, but as an adult they travel to the US and happen to run into some white guy on a subway who attempts to fondle a woman, he has a few friends who are sniggering and the rest of the car are ignoring it.  He speaks up and gets pushed around for his trouble.  Because of his understanding of race, even though his family never had a negative word to say about whites before...didn't even mention them for that matter as irrelevant to their lives, he now assumes that whites in general are sexual deviants and all around jerks.

A protected childhood may not have insulated/immunized you from racism, it just didn't expose you to it.  It would be wise not to assume it protected you, imo.

I know someone who was assaulted in their 30s iirc (beaten up iirc) and later developed quite racist attitudes where they didn't appear to have them before, possibly because they simply later assumed others of that race were violent or criminal as well and because they were then sensitized to both race and violence they believed they were seeing it everywhere because actual encounters were emotionally inflated, thus intensifying their fear and turning it into full on racism.  

People may have some commonalities based on the culture they were raised in. However, I tend to assume the light of christ can be in everyone unless they as an individual push it out of themselves. It's too bad that some people will use one or two bad experiences to define an entire race, but I know it does happen.

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, halconero said:

Most of those statues are relatively new, when groups like the Daughters of the Confederacy funded them to go along with their push for "Lost Cause" education in school.

During the war, the soldiers of one side did not consider themselves citizens of the United States.

It really was. As outlined by the cornerstone speech and several Confederate state constitutions, the power the CSA sought was to maintain slavery within its borders. When they felt that power was threatened, they first tried to exercise authority over the Northern States by overriding their laws with federal legislation like the Fugitive Slave Act, which undermines the idea that it was ever about state sovereignty. The Executive Branch of the CSA was also far more powerful than the EB in the Union, with one of the most striking examples being the the line-item veto by the President.

Confederate military victories also concentrated on expanding slavery. Confederate war hero Robert E. Lee enslaved free blacks during his invasion of Pennsylvania. He also considered slavery to be a moral evil for white people more than black people, with the former being burdened to carry out the education of black people. When his father-in-law freed his slaves upon his death, Lee went to court to keep them as slaves so he could pay off debt. When some tried to escape, he whipped them fifty times each, and poured brine onto their backs.

Put up statues to Southern Unionists or Abolitionists. I can think of several:

- William G. Brownlow - Governor and then Senator from Tennessee. Used the state government to enfranchise Black Americans and fought the Ku Klux Klan.

- William Crutchfield - Union spy from Tennesee and later Congressman there.

- Andrew Jackson Hamilton - Governor of Texas. Born in Alabama, aligned himself with the Radical Republicans, criticized slave power and opposed re-opening of the slave trade, fought with the Union. As Governor, he used state power to support suffrage and economic emancipation of Black Americans.

- William Woods Holden - Governor of North Carolina. Impeached because he formed a state militia to fight the Ku Klux Klan. Posthumously pardoned for his impeachment.

- Joseph Holt - Judge Advocate General of the US Army. Born in Kentucky. Kept Kentucky in the Union and became a vigorous supporter of emancipation.

- Newton Knight - Founded the "Free State of Jones" in Mississippi. Married to a freedwoman, overthrew the Confederate government in his county. Fought a guerilla campaign against the Confederacy.

- John Ancrum Winslow - US Navy Officer, born in North Carolina. Abolitionist, and famous for sinking the CSS Alabama.

- Montgomery C. Meigs - Career US Army officer and engineer. Quartermaster General, and probably the one who can be most credited with winning the war. Born in Georgia. Detested the Confederacy, and confiscated Robert E. Lee's property to form the Arlington National Cemetery. Insisted that the design of the Pension Building include a teamster who was a plantation slave freed by the war, and must be centered over the entrance.

- Francis Pierpont - Founder of West Virginia, in which he also abolished slavery.

- Elizabeth Van Lew - Prominent Virginian, who built and operated a major spy ring for the Union during the war. Freed her father's slave immediately upon his death, paid them to work for her, and used her entire inheritance to purchase the relatives of these former-slaves-turned-employees. Regularly went to the slave market to look for families about to be split up, buy them up, and then free them.

- John Harlan - SCOTUS Justice. Kentuckian. Called the "Great Dissenter" for writing the dissenting opinion on cases that went against integration, economic emancipation, expanding income tax, or expansive use of antitrust.

The US Civil War was a tragedy for many reasons. Honour those who fought to uphold slavery dilutes, rather than strengthens the tragedy of it. Lives were lost defending a horrid institution that split up families, sought to extend its power West and North, and had aggressive tendencies both in its initial attacks as well as it subsequent offensive actions. The US would do well to celebrate the heroes that upheld Union and Abolition, and mourn the loss of soldiers and the history of slavery through less-heroic monuments and more-mournful ones akin to the Vimy Ridge Memorial, Auschwitz, or the Berlin Holocaust Memorial. There's little use honouring men like Jefferson Davis, Nathan Bedford Forrest, or Robert E. Lee.

As Calm mentioned, I love this board. Thanks for this!!

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, cherryTreez said:

You can't delete our history. Americans died on both sides during the civil war. It wasn't only about slavery.  If you try to cover up or rewrite the history then no one will ever learn from it. I have three ancestors that died in the civil war. One was just 18. Many others fought and lived.   Oh they fought for the north if that matters. 

No, this deleting history thing needs to stop. First, there were virtually no monuments to the Confederacy until the Jim Crow laws became a thing. Robert E. Lee discouraged these kinds of memorials as a bad idea. They showed up when African Americans were starting to or were getting rights as rallying symbols to keep them down. Same with the Confederate organizations and the campaign to turn the Confederacy into a glorious failure. It is very interesting how many went up in the 50s and 60s when you would think that would be something unnecessary.

Statues and monuments are not about remembering history. That is what museums are for. Statues and monuments are to honor things. We honor the unknown soldier, the dead at Pearl Harbor, and things of that nature. Germany does not have monuments honoring Hitler. We do not have statues of John Wilkes Booth. History must be recorded and remembered but if you put a large monument to a Confederate General up you are honoring their actions. What is there to honor. All the brave Confederate soldiers who gave their lives so that others would not be free?

Yes, I know there is nuance and not every Confederate was a blah blah blah and that the Civil War did have other causes other than slavery but slavery was the defining cause. All you have to do is read the Confederate Constitution and read the speeches of its founding leaders. They knew secession was about slavery. Oh yeah, the whole Civil War has a lot of causes other than slavery thing? Came out in the 1950s and 1960s mostly in Southern schools and spread out a little. Gee, I wonder why.

Edit: I was late on the above while writing this post and others said it better.

 

In good news the mayor of Birmingham did show up as promised with heavy equipment and they smashed the Confederate obelisk. Still in progress last I saw. I guess it takes a while. In other news the San Francisco DA is taking on the local police union against intense opposition. He has a history of fighting police corruption and the police department hates him. The DA has asked the state bar to disband the police union.

In other news this evening........Helicopters are reportedly gassing protesters but no video so unconfirmed. I just watched a video of a cop forcing a man’s hand onto his weapon (baton?) while he and another cop subdued the man and then arrested him. It was very blatant he was going for prints on the weapon. He literally grabbed the guy’s wrist and shoved his hand onto it. I hope the video can be used to exonerate him. Someone ran their vehicle into some cops who were firing at what were reported to be fleeing protesters. Two cops were injured. One looked bad. I saw video of a business owner in LA that called for police protection. Police showed up and immediately arrested him. The rector of the church used in the earlier photo op is incensed over their using it without permission for the stunt and for irresponsible clearing the area for a photo is. Police in many areas are not respecting the press at all and are shooting, subduing, and arresting them. Other cities are more peaceful and protests continue.

Edited June 2, 2020 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

I bet this has already been shared. It's a message from Pres. Nelson:

We join with many throughout this nation and around the world who are deeply saddened at recent evidences of racism and a blatant disregard for human life. We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.
We are also saddened when these assaults on human dignity lead to escalating violence and unrest.

The Creator of us all calls on each of us to abandon attitudes of prejudice against any group of God’s children. Any of us who has prejudice toward another race needs to repent!

During the Savior’s earthly mission, He constantly ministered to those who were excluded, marginalized, judged, overlooked, abused, and discounted. As His followers, can we do anything less? The answer is no! We believe in freedom, kindness, and fairness for all of God’s children!

Let us be clear. We are brothers and sisters, each of us the child of a loving Father in Heaven. His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, invites all to come unto Him—“black and white, bond and free, male and female,” (2 Nephi 26:33). It behooves each of us to do whatever we can in our spheres of influence to preserve the dignity and respect every son and daughter of God deserves.

Any nation can only be as great as its people. That requires citizens to cultivate a moral compass that helps them distinguish between right and wrong.

Illegal acts such as looting, defacing, or destroying public or private property cannot be tolerated. Never has one wrong been corrected by a second wrong. Evil has never been resolved by more evil.

We need to foster our faith in the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.

We need to foster a fundamental respect for the human dignity of every human soul, regardless of their color, creed, or cause.

And we need to work tirelessly to build bridges of understanding rather than creating walls of segregation.

I plead with us to work together for peace, for mutual respect, and for an outpouring of love for all of God’s children.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

Right in the heart of Salt Lake is a protest going on. The protesters have been told to go home, it's way past curfew, but they won't go home. From the comfort of my couch my heart is racing, I so wanted this to be a peaceful protest. It was handled well early on, but now that it's dark, it doesn't look good, I pray that it will end and they will finally go home. ETA: They went home.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Tacenda

[Islander]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Pulling down a few more monuments to the Confederacy would be nice.

Well, I am black and foreign born, Hispanic, immigrant with friends in Kentucky and Georgia. For them, now, the history of the Confederacy was related to other issues, not just slavery. In fact, it is a well documented fact that the friction between North and South began over taxation. It became  a runaway train that wrecked the country in a bloody civil war, but reducing the conflict to just slavery is rather a new revisionist twist. 

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Police in many areas are not respecting the press at all and are shooting, subduing, and arresting them

This is self sabotage....

How did they get to this point?  What made the difference between police who react this way and police who walk with the protestors to show they are listening (which in my opinion is part of their job and so is totally appropriate).

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am not allowed to like this post but I like this post.

It makes a very clear point imo.  Good find, Tacenda.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

It makes a very clear point imo.  Good find, Tacenda.

Can't take credit, my son posted it on FB, thanks!

[sunstoned]

43 minutes ago, Islander said:

Well, I am black and foreign born, Hispanic, immigrant with friends in Kentucky and Georgia. For them, now, the history of the Confederacy was related to other issues, not just slavery. In fact, it is a well documented fact that the friction between North and South began over taxation. It became  a runaway train that wrecked the country in a bloody civil war, but reducing the conflict to just slavery is rather a new revisionist twist. 

Please supply references on taxation being the friction between North and South.

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Please supply references on taxation being the friction between North and South.

He may be referring to tariffs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis

Not “the” friction, but one of them.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by ksfisher

[cherryTreez]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It isn't about deleting, it is about not honoring something that shouldn't be honored.

I won't say honoring. I think it is remembering.  There is a big difference.

[cherryTreez]

57 minutes ago, Islander said:

Well, I am black and foreign born, Hispanic, immigrant with friends in Kentucky and Georgia. For them, now, the history of the Confederacy was related to other issues, not just slavery. In fact, it is a well documented fact that the friction between North and South began over taxation. It became  a runaway train that wrecked the country in a bloody civil war, but reducing the conflict to just slavery is rather a new revisionist twist. 

No one wants to hear that. They like thinking the whole war was over slavery. 

[Scott Lloyd]

This may have been posted already, but I lack the inclination to sift through this thread to see, so I’ll go ahead and post the link. It’s a social media post from President Nelson. 
 

Notice he decries both racism AND the looting, vandalism and lawlessness. 
 

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-nelson-shares-social-post-encouraging-understanding-and-civility

[Kenngo1969]

I just slapped this up on my Blog, for what it's worth:

On the Vicious Downward Spiral Between Crime, Unemployment, Hopelessness, and Yet More Crime

By Ken K. Gourdin

 

These thoughts, like others I have posted on the Blog recently, were inspired by the rioting, looting, arson, and vandalism that have broken out in many cities following the killing by Minneapolis Police of George Floyd, who died while in police custody after an officer knelt on his neck for an extended period of time, causing his asphyxiation and death.

 

Looting, arson, and vandalism are not the answers because, inevitably, many owners of victimized businesses (including many minority-owned businesses) will conclude that doing business in the area where these things have occurred is not worth the cost. Once businesses vacate the area, unemployment will increase. A rising unemployment rate will lead to a rising crime rate, and rising unemployment and rising crime rates will feed off of each other: the fewer people in the area who are gainfully employed, the more criminals and crime there will be.

 

If any businesses still are left in the area after the previous mass-exodus of businesses due to the previous episode of looting, arson, and vandalism, after yet another episode of looting, arson, and vandalism, the owners of these businesses, like the ones who vacated the area previously, will conclude that the cost of doing business in the area is too high, and unemployment and crime rates will rise even higher, as the two phenomena continue to feed off of each other.

 

High unemployment and high crime rates will continue to feed off of each other, leading to increased hopelessness; hopelessness will lead the hopeless to ask what they have left to lose, and when they conclude they have nothing left to lose, they will resort to yet more violence, and around and around (and further down) we will go.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Kenngo1969
While I Don't Have a Bog, I Do Have a Blog! ;-D

[Calm]

1 hour ago, cherryTreez said:

I won't say honoring. I think it is remembering.  There is a big difference.

What is being remembered though?  Do you have any statues or pictures in your home remembering Judas?  Or statues of serial killers to remember them?  Or the worst presidents of the US or state leader of whatever country you live in? 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Calm