What Can the Church do to Promote Anti-racism in America?

[JAHS]

Racism is often instilled in people from their childhood and the example set by their parents and the environment they grow up in.
For example, for my entire childhood years from elementary school through junior high there was not one single black student in both schools.
Even in High school there were maybe 30 to 40 black students out of 1800 students. Growing up I had no experience at all with other races and therefore had no reason to develop any racist attitudes and my parents were not racist at all. My grandmother who was raised in the south had somewhat of a racist attitude but it was how she was raised, and it was not in a mean way.
Of course no matter what our upbringing was as an individual we can decide for ourselves how we are going to treat those of a different race. 
I believe the Church has done plenty to discourage racist attitudes within its membership and has come a long ways from a hundred years ago.
 

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, SteveO said:

My brother is a cop in Milwaukee.  He said last night was the first time in his career he was afraid.  Groups of 500-600 people are now going into private residential neighborhoods and looting them.  And there’s no one stopping them.

I don’t see how terrorizing the general population, and making them to feel helpless is going to help anyone’s cause here.  

Some people are in it for what they can loot.  And some people like to see buildings burn, whether or not they are the ones who get them to burn.  These are not our very best citizens who are causing this mess.

Some people actually enjoy all of this carnage and activity.  For them it is much better than just staying at home.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, kllindley said:

So you're saying this guy doesn't see very clearly.   https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/s-not-going-bring-my-brother-back-george-floyd-s-n1221306?fbclid=IwAR2kPjXRDSplcoZduN7pulqq9xMSLxFPNXIt0XTW3ADxvhsyH7JbXzzEvlc

“First of all, first of all,” Terrence Floyd said. "If I’m not over here wilin’ out, if I’m not over here blowing up stuff, if I’m not over here messing up my community — then what are y’all doing? Nothing, because that’s not going to bring my brother back at all."

"So let’s do this another way," he said. "Let’s stop thinking that our voice don’t matter and vote…because it’s a lot of us and we still going to do this peacefully.”

I feel for the man's pain and he is grieving. That being said the point is not to bring his brother back. That is what Christ is for. The point is so that we do not have to do this again in a few months when someone else is dead.

And voting???? Really?

I do dislike the looting though some of the videos did make me laugh (watching someone pass over high dollar electronics to steal Star Wars Legos made me giggle) but that is not the primary intent and most of the protest leaders shut down looting. Most looting that has been caught on video has been small groups separated from the main protest body.

14 minutes ago, SteveO said:

My brother is a cop in Milwaukee.  He said last night was the first time in his career he was afraid.

At the risk of sounding horrible my response is: GOOD!

Government should fear the people every so often. It is good and healthy for a democracy.

8 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I respectfully disagree.  I have a deep and abiding respect for the Reverend MLK who was a proponent of peaceful protest.  Under his moral leadership, much was accomplished and those accomplishments could be added upon if all of us were committed to his vision.  That  vision was most often articulated with references to teachings of the Savior.

The protests you are lauding were largely peaceful with violent elements on the fringes of them. They were like most of these protests. What turned the tide were police beating unarmed people, dogs set on small children, and fire hoses blasted at protesters. We are seeing analogs to that too. I seriously wonder how many rubber bullets and how much tear gas police departments have.

[The Nehor]

For those interested here is a compilation video put together of a few protest incidents over the last few days. Nothing from last night as it was made yesterday. This is the one without putting the recorded deaths in. If you use Chrome you may have to click on post to go to Twitter to see. Chrome has a bug right now about showing videos.

****VIEWER DISCRETION - VIOLENCE - PROFANITY********

 

 

[smac97]

From Pres. Nelson: https://www.ksl.com/article/46759655/president-nelson-deeply-saddened-over-evidences-of-racism-and-a-blatant-disregard-for-human-life

In a social media post on Monday, President Russell M. Nelson of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said the church is joining “with many throughout this nation and around the world who are deeply saddened at recent evidences of racism and a blatant disregard for human life.”

Over the last week, protests have been happening throughout the United States and the world over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died while in police custody in Minneapolis. An officer knelt on Floyd’s neck for nearly nine minutes. The officer has been charged.

President Nelson’s message condemns racism, saying, “We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.”

The message also addressed the recent protests that have led to violence in a number of cities, including in Salt Lake City, saying that such acts cannot be tolerated.

“Never has one wrong been corrected by a second wrong,” President Nelson said.

President Nelson’s entire post reads:

“We join with many throughout this nation and around the world who are deeply saddened at recent evidences of racism and a blatant disregard for human life. We abhor the reality that some would deny others respect and the most basic of freedoms because of the color of his or her skin.

“We are also saddened when these assaults on human dignity lead to escalating violence and unrest.

“The creator of us all calls on each of us to abandon attitudes of prejudice against any group of God’s children. Any of us who has prejudice toward another race needs to repent!

“During the Savior’s earthly mission, He constantly ministered to those who were excluded, marginalized, judged, overlooked, abused, and discounted. As his followers, can we do anything less? The answer is no! We believe in freedom, kindness, and fairness for all of god’s children!

“Let us be clear. We are brothers and sisters, each of us the child of a loving Father in Heaven. His son, the Lord Jesus Christ, invites all to come unto Him — ’black and white, bond and free, male and female.’ It behooves each of us to do whatever we can in our spheres of influence to preserve the dignity and respect every son and daughter of God deserves.

“Any nation can only be as great as its people. That requires citizens to cultivate a moral compass that helps them distinguish between right and wrong.

“Illegal acts such as looting, defacing, or destroying public or private property cannot be tolerated. Never has one wrong been corrected by a second wrong. Evil has never been resolved by more evil.

“We need to foster our faith in the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.

“We need to foster a fundamental respect for the human dignity of every human soul, regardless of their color, creed, or cause.

“And we need to work tirelessly to build bridges of understanding rather than creating walls of segregation.

"I plead with us to work together for peace, for mutual respect, and for an outpouring of love for all of God’s children.”

[kllindley]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I feel for the man's pain and he is grieving. That being said the point is not to bring his brother back. That is what Christ is for. The point is so that we do not have to do this again in a few months when someone else is dead.

And voting???? Really?

I guess you know better than anyone else.  Good for you.  

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Who has the monopoly on the black vote?  Who is in charge of these urban areas?  What political persuasion do the judges, mayors, city council, and sheriffs typically hold?  
 

The single most powerful tool in a democracy is the vote.  But if the local government knows they have your vote regardless, why would they bother to win it?  White, suburban women are currently the most catered to voters this year.  And it’s because their vote can be “won”.  
 

Blacks are made to feel they can only vote one way.  And so they have.  And so they are ignored.  White “progressives”, are the black community’s worst enemy.

This problem is not a partisan one. Both parties have largely ignored it. There is a reason this meme of the police officers in the recent murder is very popular:

If you are suggesting minorities would be better off switching to the side whose leaders are currently agitating to sic the military on them and currently draws the support of virtually every white supremacist as a solution then I would say you are nuts.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, kllindley said:

I guess you know better than anyone else.  Good for you.  

No, I try to listen to those who know better than anyone else.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Bluebell, I have never heard that only blacks were enslaved because of their race alone. My understanding is that there were several groups involved with access to capturing Africans and they did so and sold those humans they captured - it did not matter what color they were. The Arab slave traders being the most prolific enslavers and trades of Africans. However, a host of Europeans also participated as well as other Africans themselves (Strangely, this fact seems to still be denied by those who would like to rewrite history and make sure that there is a hero in this torrid story). 

In my study of this topic, I have never heard of this proposal before. Do you have a reference for it. I would be curious to read more about it. 

I had a post written but it got deleted and I don't have the time (or desire) to write it again.  I can suggest studying chattel slavery, which was unique to the New World, and also suggest this link for a very (very) simple summary.

And I'll quickly point out that no one ignores the fact that Africans aided Europeans and Americans in the slave trade, it's just that it's irrelevant to any discussion on racism, slavery, and the United States.  Africa (like every other continent and region in the world) had a long history of slavery before whites showed up, but as has already been said, it was a different type of slavery.  Unlike in America, it was not at all based on race or the perceived inferiority of the individual.  Slaves in African societies had rights, they could marry, their children were not slaves, and often they were eventually able to become regular members of their societies.  

You asked why African Americans can't just let it go, why they still struggle so much compared to other races that also deal with racism.  America's history of slavery is why.  

[OGHoosier]

37 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Murder is worse than property damage. Back in the colonial days would you have been the guy whimpering about all that tea lost in the Boston Harbor and insisting it wasn't justified as an act of rebellion for manifest crimes against the people of the Colonies and they should have worked with the King and Parliament to work out their differences? You some kind of Tory? GO BACK TO BRITAIN!

Funny. That's exactly what Benjamin Franklin thought. He said the East India Company should be recompensed for the tea by the state. George Washington wrote that the Bostonians had gone crazy. Some Tories they were, huh?

I'm gonna push back further on the whole Boston Tea Party analogy. There is only a general parallel here, not strong enough to justify the violence that we see.

The Boston Tea Party was organized and focused to a point. The perpetrators, a group called the Sons of Liberty, organized themselves in order to effect a strike on the East India Tea Company, the state-level power benefiting from the tea monopoly granted them by the federal government. The only property harmed was the tea; the Sons of Liberty broke a padlock belonging to the captain and paid for its replacement the very next day. The 3 ships which they stormed were not otherwise damaged. No individuals were harmed, save one member of the Sons of Liberty who got hit by a crate of tea and was knocked unconscious. They certainly did not loot and burn down Paul Revere's silversmithy, nor anything else. The contrasts between the Tea Party and the present protests render invalid any but the most broad and facile parallels. At most you could justify the burning of the precinct, since the police are the offending party much like the East India Company (though notably the problem for the Sons of Liberty was the state granting a monopoly, and yet they didn't burn down the constabulary or the House of Burgesses.) The destruction of private property (that of African-Americans, no less) and the loss of life are not paralleled in the Boston Tea Party. 

[SteveO]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

And voting???? Really?

I know you absolutely hate him, but the President is still clothed with immense power.  And this romantic notion you hold of a second American Revolution is getting tamped down before the week is out. Any dreams you have of “change” rising from the ashes of revolt, isn’t happening.  
 

So yes, the black community better look at changing how they vote, and make it a vote that can be contested.

[SteveO]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This problem is not a partisan one. Both parties have largely ignored it. There is a reason this meme of the police officers in the recent murder is very popular:

If you are suggesting minorities would be better off switching to the side whose leaders are currently agitating to sic the military on them and currently draws the support of virtually every white supremacist as a solution then I would say you are nuts.

This is moronic, and beneath you.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I know you absolutely hate him, but the President is still clothed with immense power.  And this romantic notion you hold of a second American Revolution is getting tamped down before the week is out. Any dreams you have of “change” rising from the ashes of revolt, isn’t happening.  
 

So yes, the black community better look at changing how they vote, and make it a vote that can be contested.

Not in this situation. The President cannot legally use the military on American soil and governors can. Plus Trump was cowering in his bunker under the White House last night due to unarmed protesters. Far cry from the bravado he said he had two years ago when he claimed he would charge into an active school shooting unarmed to stop it. If you want to hear a scared man the hour long phone call he had with the governors today urging them to “dominate” the protesters is online now.

I really hope there is no revolt. i do not anticipate government leaders being guillotined as a new regime is unfurled or a protracted violent struggle between government and people. I want a revolution but a cultural and internal governmental one caused by the pressure this creates. As to it dying in a week maybe. Some of the people I have worked with admit this is a possibility but right now it is growing. They said the same thing about MLK’s movement and that it would blow over or that the rights you want will come slowly over time so stop stirring the pot. Every cause like this seems unlikely.....because it is. Sometimes though they work.

 

Louisville could be bad tonight. Police shot a guy and somehow the body cameras of the incident were “inactive”. Reports from the police are that shots were fired at them. No one has any good video yet that I have seen. Police claim they have some. The mayor fired the chief of police because turning off or not wearing a body camera is a big no no in Louisville after the Breonna Taylor incident. Oddly the body was left in the street for over 12 hours and it is not clear why but that is likely to lead to this protest growing.

[SteveO]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Not in this situation. The President cannot legally use the military on American soil and governors can. Plus Trump was cowering in his bunker under the White House last night due to unarmed protesters. Far cry from the bravado he said he had two years ago when he claimed he would charge into an active school shooting unarmed to stop it. If you want to hear a scared man the hour long phone call he had with the governors today urging them to “dominate” the protesters is online now.

I really hope there is no revolt. i do not anticipate government leaders being guillotined as a new regime is unfurled or a protracted violent struggle between government and people. I want a revolution but a cultural and internal governmental one caused by the pressure this creates. As to it dying in a week maybe. Some of the people I have worked with admit this is a possibility but right now it is growing. They said the same thing about MLK’s movement and that it would blow over or that the rights you want will come slowly over time so stop stirring the pot. Every cause like this seems unlikely.....because it is. Sometimes though they work.

 

Louisville could be bad tonight. Police shot a guy and somehow the body cameras of the incident were “inactive”. Reports from the police are that shots were fired at them. No one has any good video yet that I have seen. Police claim they have some. The mayor fired the chief of police because turning off or not wearing a body camera is a big no no in Louisville after the Breonna Taylor incident. Oddly the body was left in the street for over 12 hours and it is not clear why but that is likely to lead to this protest growing.

Insurrection Act of 1807.  Invoked as recently as May 1992 for LA riots

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, SteveO said:

This is moronic, and beneath you.

I did not say I agree with it as a fundamental truth. I showed it primarily to display the feelings many in this movement have. There is some truth to it though and I chuckled at it and thought it was clever so I disagree with calling it moronic. This response to the feelings behind that image is also why there is little improvement.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Insurrection Act of 1807.  Invoked as recently as May 1992 for LA riots

That requires the governor’s consent putting the governor as a check on the president acting. There is an exception if the state government is out of action but I do not expect that to happen.

In addition practically only the national guard can be used on American soil due to posse comitatus. Technically that act only covers the army and Air Force but the Secretary of the Navy that has authority over the Navy and Marines have stated through the years they consider themselves bound by that act. Maybe they can use the new Space Force. I have not looked into how it interlocks with other military branches. Coast Guard is limited mostly to ports and the water. There is not a lot of federal muscle to flex on US soil without the governor’s consent. I believe you might be able to get around it using the War Powers Act or something like it but that would require congressional consent which is unlikely.

Edited June 1, 2020 by The Nehor

[InCognitus]

7 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Preach and live the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

To go along with that, what President Benson said in the October 1985 General Conference ("Born of God"):

"The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of the people, and then they take themselves out of the slums. The world would mold men by changing their environment. Christ changes men, who then change their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature”

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Yes, the unambiguity has in many cases flicked the last of scales of some eyes. The person who videoed the murder was a 17 year old girl. My daughter is 17. It strains disbelief the courage it took for her too stand there for ten minutes, and along with others, ask and ask and ask the police to stop hurting Mr. Floyd. As far as I know, it was the bystanders who called for an ambulance, but who can they call to stop the police?

Imagine that helplessness, and then just stretching that to ALL THE TIME. You cannot rely on the police to protect you, because calling for their aid could mean you or someone you love could be wrongly deemed a threat and endangered by police presence.  

My oldest son has some weird-looking but harmless ticks related to his autism. He isn't as aware of some social conventions. When he goes to martial arts class, he'll run down the street because he likes to run. We live in the UK where police do not carry guns and he is white. I don't worry, especially since he's very careful about where he steps. Yet, if he was black in America, running down a city street to karate class would be out of the question. 

 

I left this behind and meant to reply but forgot. I agree. Listening to those stories from those parents who have to teach their kids techniques to survive a tense encounter with the police is what made me realize I was missing a lot of the story.

[SteveO]

27 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I did not say I agree with it as a fundamental truth. I showed it primarily to display the feelings many in this movement have. There is some truth to it though and I chuckled at it and thought it was clever so I disagree with calling it moronic. This response to the feelings behind that image is also why there is little improvement.

It doesn’t have to be a binary choice.  Just make them EARN the black vote, and not take it for granted.  I think standing outside polling stations this November, and making a point that although you showed up, neither party will receive your vote, would make some powerful people pay attention.

 

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That requires the governor’s consent putting the governor as a check on the president acting. There is an exception if the state government is out of action but I do not expect that to happen.

In addition practically only the national guard can be used on American soil due to posse comitatus. Technically that act only covers the army and Air Force but the Secretary of the Navy that has authority over the Navy and Marines have stated through the years they consider themselves bound by that act. Maybe they can use the new Space Force. I have not looked into how it interlocks with other military branches. Coast Guard is limited mostly to ports and the water. There is not a lot of federal muscle to flex on US soil without the governor’s consent. I believe you might be able to get around it using the War Powers Act or something like it but that would require congressional consent which is unlikely.

We’ll see, if the governors can get it handled, then I think everyone would prefer that route.  But if they can’t, they might have to ask for federal aid—nobody is so “woke” that they won’t pay a political price for failing to maintain law and order.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

ven in High school there were maybe 30 to 40 black students out of 1800 students. Growing up I had no experience at all with other races and therefore had no reason to develop any racist attitude

If you think you didn’t pick up any prejudices from TV, books, or movies, I think you might want to look again. 
 

Plus attitudes towards differences don’t need race to develop, but unfortunately can easily be extrapolated to race. 

[JAHS]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you think you didn’t pick up any prejudices from TV, books, or movies, I think you might want to look again. 
 

Plus attitudes towards differences don’t need race to develop, but unfortunately can easily be extrapolated to race. 

I may have heard it from those sources, but I think I managed to not be influenced too much by any of them. 

[The Nehor]

24 minutes ago, SteveO said:

It doesn’t have to be a binary choice.  Just make them EARN the black vote, and not take it for granted.  I think standing outside polling stations this November, and making a point that although you showed up, neither party will receive your vote, would make some powerful people pay attention.

It may come to that but I am guessing most who do vote will go with the sad but common “lesser of two evils” route. Those who might be tempted by your suggestion will probably remember that the incumbent is calling for military action against them.

24 minutes ago, SteveO said:

We’ll see, if the governors can get it handled, then I think everyone would prefer that route.  But if they can’t, they might have to ask for federal aid—nobody is so “woke” that they won’t pay a political price for failing to maintain law and order.

The issue is that the governor already controls the national guard. If it gets beyond their ability yeah, a governor could turn the keys over to the President.

I also read more and realized I missed something. In D.C. there is no check short of maybe Congress forbidding it and there is no way they can move fast enough. He can sic the military on protesters there. This is not good. He is scared and angry and thinks he has to look tough. Oh, and the doofus just fired off tear gas and rubber bullets to force away protesters so he could get a photo op in D.C. which sure sounds like a great reason to curtail First amendment rights.

Edit: and it was to stand in front of a church and hold up a bible. This sums up my feelings:

Well, I do not entirely agree. I find it very believable.

Edited June 2, 2020 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

And more incendiary news. The first ME to do an autopsy on George Floyd found a cause of death that made it very ambiguous as to whether it was the restraint or a heart attack that killed him so there was a plausible other option to try to exonerate the police if there had not been video. A second ME redid the autopsy and found death was due to asphyxia due to neck and back compression which is what the video shows. That autopsy plus the initial report the he attempted to resist arrest screams of an attempted coverup they had to abandon awkwardly when video popped up.

Also, federal prison guards have been mobilized. I really hope those are not from private prisons as that would be very dubious. Well, more dubious. I am honestly not sure of legality in either case.

Edited June 2, 2020 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, let’s roll said:

I respectfully disagree.  I have a deep and abiding respect for the Reverend MLK who was a proponent of peaceful protest.  Under his moral leadership, much was accomplished and those accomplishments could be added upon if all of us were committed to his vision.  That  vision was most often articulated with references to teachings of the Savior.

 

I too believe a peaceful protest is best. But the photos in the meme show peaceful protests and still nothing changed. I hope no one gets hurt by these protests....well too late for that. I just like that in the meme it showed that it is way past long overdue for change in the way police are trained, they need more training. The knee to the neck seems to occur way too often. Just like a recent shot in the news of a policeman putting his knee against someone's neck as recent as yesterday and then quickly moved his knee away when he realized he shouldn't do that. It's like they had been trained to do it that way. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Tacenda

[Nemesis]

I’m allowing this thread to stay open with the limited amount of politics in it.  Please keep it related to the topic and preferably non-partisan.