Is the Sacrament a Saving Ordinance?

[Bernard Gui]

In another thread, there was some mention that the sacrament is not a saving ordinance.

I'm trying to understand what that means. Certainly one must repent of sins in order to be saved. Can one be baptized but never renew the covenants by taking the sacrament and still be forgiven for sins?

Consider this from the Joseph Smith Translation...

Quote

22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread and brake it, and blessed it, and gave to his disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is in remembrance of my body which I give a ransom for you. 24 For this is in remembrance of my blood of the new testament, which is shed for as many as shall believe on my name, for the remission of their sins. 25 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall observe to do the things which ye have seen me do, and bear record of me even unto the end.

From True to the Faith....

Quote

You receive great blessings when you keep the baptismal covenant. As you renew it, the Lord renews the promised remission of your sins. Cleansed from sin, you are able to “always have his Spirit to be with [you]”. The Spirit’s constant companionship is one of the greatest gifts you can receive in mortality. The Spirit will guide you in the paths of righteousness and peace, leading you to eternal life with your Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ.

And this from Elder Bednar...https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2016/04/always-retain-a-remission-of-your-sins?lang=eng

Quote

The sacrament is the third ordinance necessary to obtain access to the power of godliness. That we might more fully keep ourselves unspotted from the world, we are commanded to go to the house of prayer and offer up our sacraments upon the Lord’s holy day. Please consider that the emblems of the Lord’s body and blood, the bread and the water, are both blessed and sanctified. “O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread [or this water] to the souls of all those who partake [or drink] of it.” To sanctify is to make pure and holy. The sacramental emblems are sanctified in remembrance of Christ’s purity, of our total dependence upon His Atonement, and of our responsibility to so honor our ordinances and covenants that we can “stand spotless before [Him] at the last day.”

The ordinance of the sacrament is a holy and repeated invitation to repent sincerely and to be renewed spiritually. The act of partaking of the sacrament, in and of itself, does not remit sins. But as we prepare conscientiously and participate in this holy ordinance with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then the promise is that we may always have the Spirit of the Lord to be with us. And by the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost as our constant companion, we can always retain a remission of our sins.

We truly are blessed each week by the opportunity to evaluate our lives through the ordinance of the sacrament, to renew our covenants, and to receive this covenant promise.

The ordinances of baptism by immersion, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the sacrament are not isolated and discrete events; rather, they are elements in an interrelated and additive pattern of redemptive progress. Each successive ordinance elevates and enlarges our spiritual purpose, desire, and performance. The Father’s plan, the Savior’s Atonement, and the ordinances of the gospel provide the grace we need to press forward and progress line upon line and precept upon precept toward our eternal destiny.

Seems to me that the sacrament is essential for salvation, thus it is a saving ordinance.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Duncan]

I think it links us to saving ordinances, which are baptism, confirmation, priesthood and the two Temple ordinances, but how often you take it isn't as important as your attitude when you do take it

[Robert F. Smith]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

............................

Seems to me that the sacrament is essential for salvation, thus it is a saving ordinance.

I suppose that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is a saving ordinance, just as the Passover was.  They are really the same ordinance, and both entail the sacrificial lamb of God (the Atonement).  The question I would want to ask would be, Are all the sacraments of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints saving ordinances?  Maybe not, in the sense of being essential to salvation.  Some certainly are, but others -- such as the healing ordinance, and other blessings -- are not essential to salvation.  We could probably make a list of those that are essential, and which must be done here (or hereafter by proxy):  baptism, confirmation, washing & anointing, endowment, and family sealing.  One need not be married to obtain salvation, so that is optional.  For the innocent young none of that is necessary at all.

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I suppose that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is a saving ordinance, just as the Passover was.  They are really the same ordinance, and both entail the sacrificial lamb of God (the Atonement).  The question I would want to ask would be, Are all the sacraments of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints saving ordinances?  Maybe not, in the sense of being essential to salvation.  Some certainly are, but others -- such as the healing ordinance, and other blessings -- are not essential to salvation.  We could probably make a list of those that are essential, and which must be done here (or hereafter by proxy):  baptism, confirmation, washing & anointing, endowment, and family sealing.  One need not be married to obtain salvation, so that is optional.  For the innocent young none of that is necessary at all.

Thank you. I asked, "Can one be baptized but never renew the covenants by taking the sacrament and still be forgiven for sins?" How would you answer that?

 

[Michael Sudworth]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Seems to me that the sacrament is essential for salvation, thus it is a saving ordinance.

I'm not so sure.

We do not take the sacrament for the dead.  Wouldn't the dead need the same saving ordinances that we require? Of course, you may say that the dead cannot sin in the spirit world so what need is there for receiving the sacrament? I would argue that while remission of sins is one part of taking the sacrament, the renewing of covenants is just as vital.

Given this, I do not believe the sacrament is a saving ordinance.

[Rain]

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In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.

 

 

Covenants and ordinances

Quote

Ordinances of Salvation and Exaltation

The priesthood includes the authority to administer gospel ordinances that are necessary for salvation and exaltation. People make sacred covenants with God as they receive these ordinances. The ordinances of salvation and exaltation are listed below:

• Baptism

• Confirmation and gift of the Holy Ghost

• Conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordination to an office (for men)

• Temple endowment

• Temple sealing

The ordinances of salvation and exaltation are not performed for persons who have intellectual disabilities that make them not accountable and unable to make covenants with God. Nor are these ordinances performed for children who die before age 8. These persons are “saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (Doctrine and Covenants 137:10; see also Moroni 8:8–12).

18.2

Other Ordinances and Blessings

Other ordinances and blessings make it possible for God’s children to receive His power, healing, comfort, and guidance. These ordinances and blessings are listed below:

• Naming and blessing children

• The sacrament

• Conferral of the Aaronic Priesthood and ordination to an office (for young men and men)

• Setting apart members to serve in callings

• Consecrating oil

• Administering to the sick

• Blessings of comfort and counsel, including father’s blessings

• Dedicating homes

• Dedicating graves

• Patriarchal blessings by ordained patriarchs

Priesthood Ordinances

 

No, it's not a saving ordinance.

Note: All the saving ordinances have a proxy for the dead option. 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Seems to me that the sacrament is essential for salvation, thus it is a saving ordinance.

A person could be baptized, confirmed, and endowed and they would have completed the ordinances required for salvation in Christ's kingdom.  While highly unlikely to do so without ever partaking of the sacrament if that happened I don't see an issue.

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

Quote

• Baptism

• Confirmation and gift of the Holy Ghost

• Conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordination to an office (for men)

• Temple endowment

• Temple sealing

Note: All the saving ordinances have a proxy for the dead option. 

Only one other ordinance has been performed vicariously.  You could separate that ordinance and sealings into exalting ordinances instead of saving as sealing isn't required of salvation either.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In another thread, there was some mention that the sacrament is not a saving ordinance.

I'm trying to understand what that means. Certainly one must repent of sins in order to be saved. Can one be baptized but never renew the covenants by taking the sacrament and still be forgiven for sins?

Consider this from the Joseph Smith Translation...

From True to the Faith....

And this from Elder Bednar...https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2016/04/always-retain-a-remission-of-your-sins?lang=eng

Seems to me that the sacrament is essential for salvation, thus it is a saving ordinance.

What if there is no opportunity to take the sacrament, such as what happened to some Saints when Germany was divided by a wall?  We do not do proxy sacraments after death to make up for those missed.
 

My bishop does not contact me to ensure I get consistent sacraments when I am unable to attend. He doesn’t even ask about if I have taken it every two years for my temple recommend interviews. 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thank you. I asked, "Can one be baptized but never renew the covenants by taking the sacrament and still be forgiven for sins?" How would you answer that?

Yes, I think so.  As I pointed out, the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is actually the Passover, a rite which the Lord himself kept.  As Mike Sudworth points out, however, our esoteric temple rites do not require that Passover-Lord's Supper observance by proxy for salvation.  The rite itself was actualized by Jesus Christ, and we can renew our covenants by observing it, but if one died immediately after baptism, no proxy partaking of the emblems would be necessary for salvation.

[bluebell]

As Rain referenced, the church teaches that it is not a saving ordinance. 

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

My bishop does not contact me to ensure I get consistent sacraments when I am unable to attend. He doesn’t even ask about if I have taken it every two years for my temple recommend interviews. 

It's pretty bluntly implied in the new question # 8, isn't it?:   

"Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?"

This is fresh on my mind, since I just had my recommend renewed.  I was reflecting on the meaning of that question under our current circumstances.  Obviously it doesn't specify frequency, but the question is there.  The word "regularly" is noticeably absent. 

[JamesBYoung]

To the OP: no.

We do not do proxy sacrament for the dead.

[Calm]

Incog,I spaced on that. Thanks for reminding me. It is getting close to renewal time.

I explain to my bishop that I go when I can and that has always been enough for him, no extended discussions on if I get it in my home...which is probably why I forgot it was included in a question.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Calm

[InCognitus]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Incog,I spaced on that. Thanks for reminding me. It is getting close to renewal time.

I explain to my bishop that I go when I can and that has always been enough for him, no extended discussions on if I get it in my home...which is probably why I forgot it was included in a question.

I totally understand, and the part about the sacrament is one of the new changes.   This is the way the old question read:  "Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?"  

I just had my interview yesterday, and because I knew they were new questions I reviewed them prior to my interview, and that one question really jumped out at me (and the irony of the phrase "Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings...." given our current situation, since it's the same thing  ).   

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, I think so.  As I pointed out, the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is actually the Passover, a rite which the Lord himself kept.  As Mike Sudworth points out, however, our esoteric temple rites do not require that Passover-Lord's Supper observance by proxy for salvation.  The rite itself was actualized by Jesus Christ, and we can renew our covenants by observing it, but if one died immediately after baptism, no proxy partaking of the emblems would be necessary for salvation.

The saying goes that hard cases make for bad law. So you’ve got me wondering if it might be equally true to say that exceedingly rare exceptions also make for bad gospel law. The Saviour taught the following famous “hard saying.” 

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

At least to me, the above words of the Master make it abundantly clear that partaking of his flesh and blood is essential to obtaining salvation. So while it may be true that in some narrow technical sense it might be correctly said that the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper is not a saving ordinance, nevertheless, at least for those of us who have regular access to the Sacrament table, it may as well be called a saving ordinance because consciously neglecting to regularly partake of those sacred emblems amounts to nothing less that a repudiation of the faith, or, at very least, the outward manifestation a cavalier attitude toward a sacred ordinance that God repeatedly warns us needs to be approached most seriously, solemnly and conscientiously.

And as far as the idea that the Sacrament isn’t essential to salvation because it doesn’t need to be performed vicariously in behalf of the dead, need I remind anyone here that the Lord himself has promised us that he and all those who believe in him will again partake of the Sacrament‘s sacred emblems after the resurrection. So it appears the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper is at least one holy ordinance that will continue to be performed AFTER the resurrection, and it’s likely that it’s for this very reason that it isn’t necessary for proxies to partake of the Sacrament in behalf of the dead. If anyone doubts me, read the the chapter heading to D&C 27 and the entire section.
 

Edited May 26, 2020 by teddyaware

[echelon]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As I pointed out, the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is actually the Passover, a rite which the Lord himself kept.

I'm not sure I understand this statement, do you mean that Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is the Passover and not the same as the sacrament we have today? or that the Passover and our sacrament today is the same?  Either way this interested me and reflected on how different the ordinance is now compared to the Passover, and I have no idea if they had anything like in the days prior to the Passover.

From the Church website:

"Passover - The Feast of the Passover was instituted to help the children of Israel remember when the destroying angel passed over their houses and delivered them from the Egyptians

Sacrament - When worthy Church members take the sacrament, they promise to take upon them the name of Christ, to always remember Him, and to keep His commandments. Through this ordinance, Church members renew their baptismal covenants."

If they are the same ordinance, how did this ordinance to remember what the Lord has done to deliver Israel evolve into an ordinance to renew our baptismal covenants? And if it is not the same ordinance, why institute it among the Nephites and latter days only?

 

 

[longview]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thank you. I asked, "Can one be baptized but never renew the covenants by taking the sacrament and still be forgiven for sins?" How would you answer that?

No you cannot.  Partaking of the Sacrament is essential for incrementally applying the Power of the Atonement.  We do NOT wait until the end of life or until the next world to apply ALL of the Atonement.  During the Sacrament, we meditate on our actions, thoughts, feelings, whatever and then we repent, we resolve to do better, we commit to a new goal, whatever.  All part of the ongoing process of Sanctification.  Enduring to the end.

This process is available ONLY during mortality.  Which requires accepting Jesus and living by His Words (the Gospel).  Some people think that they can fool around and procrastinate the day of repentance.  But if they die unexpectedly, then they will end up in Spirit Prison for the wicked (the Place of Torment).  Because they did not take advantage of living the Gospel while in mortality, they have essentially trampled Jesus under their feet and tossed the Atonement to the side.  For this reason, they will have to suffer for their own sins in the Place of Torment.

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

As Rain referenced, the church teaches that it is not a saving ordinance. 

Both of you are quite mistaken.  It is a very necessary part of the Plan of Salvation.  The ongoing process.  Available only in mortality.  EVERY ordinance by definition is an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  The particular ordinance of the Sacrament is also an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  Therefore, the Sacrament is a SAVING ordinance.

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The rite itself was actualized by Jesus Christ, and we can renew our covenants by observing it, but if one died immediately after baptism, no proxy partaking of the emblems would be necessary for salvation.

Correct.  For some reason the Lord has decided that particular person no longer needed to endure the ongoing process of sanctification while having a body of flesh and blood.  No one will "lose out" while striving to be committed to the Gospel.

4 hours ago, Calm said:

What if there is no opportunity to take the sacrament, such as what happened to some Saints when Germany was divided by a wall?  We do not do proxy sacraments after death to make up for those missed.

The communist saints probably had home-bound churches and probably used their priesthood to conduct the ordinance of the Sacrament.  Just we are now doing during the COVID-19 hysteria.

[Rain]

26 minutes ago, longview said:

No you cannot.  Partaking of the Sacrament is essential for incrementally applying the Power of the Atonement.  We do NOT wait until the end of life or until the next world to apply ALL of the Atonement.  During the Sacrament, we meditate on our actions, thoughts, feelings, whatever and then we repent, we resolve to do better, we commit to a new goal, whatever.  All part of the ongoing process of Sanctification.  Enduring to the end.

This process is available ONLY during mortality.  Which requires accepting Jesus and living by His Words (the Gospel).  Some people think that they can fool around and procrastinate the day of repentance.  But if they die unexpectedly, then they will end up in Spirit Prison for the wicked (the Place of Torment).  Because they did not take advantage of living the Gospel while in mortality, they have essentially trampled Jesus under their feet and tossed the Atonement to the side.  For this reason, they will have to suffer for their own sins in the Place of Torment.

Both of you are quite mistaken.  It is a very necessary part of the Plan of Salvation.  The ongoing process.  Available only in mortality.  EVERY ordinance by definition is an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  The particular ordinance of the Sacrament is also an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  Therefore, the Sacrament is a SAVING ordinance. 

I just quoted the church website.  If it is a saving ordinance you better let them know.

26 minutes ago, longview said:

Correct.  For some reason the Lord has decided that particular person no longer needed to endure the ongoing process of sanctification while having a body of flesh and blood.  No one will "lose out" while striving to be committed to the Gospel.

The communist saints probably had home-bound churches and probably used their priesthood to conduct the ordinance of the Sacrament.  Just we are now doing during the COVID-19 hysteria.

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, longview said:

No you cannot.  Partaking of the Sacrament is essential for incrementally applying the Power of the Atonement.  We do NOT wait until the end of life or until the next world to apply ALL of the Atonement.  During the Sacrament, we meditate on our actions, thoughts, feelings, whatever and then we repent, we resolve to do better, we commit to a new goal, whatever.  All part of the ongoing process of Sanctification.  Enduring to the end.

This process is available ONLY during mortality.  Which requires accepting Jesus and living by His Words (the Gospel).  Some people think that they can fool around and procrastinate the day of repentance.  But if they die unexpectedly, then they will end up in Spirit Prison for the wicked (the Place of Torment).  Because they did not take advantage of living the Gospel while in mortality, they have essentially trampled Jesus under their feet and tossed the Atonement to the side.  For this reason, they will have to suffer for their own sins in the Place of Torment.

Both of you are quite mistaken.  It is a very necessary part of the Plan of Salvation.  The ongoing process.  Available only in mortality.  EVERY ordinance by definition is an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  The particular ordinance of the Sacrament is also an essential part of the Doctrine of Christ.  Therefore, the Sacrament is a SAVING ordinance.

Correct.  For some reason the Lord has decided that particular person no longer needed to endure the ongoing process of sanctification while having a body of flesh and blood.  No one will "lose out" while striving to be committed to the Gospel.

The communist saints probably had home-bound churches and probably used their priesthood to conduct the ordinance of the Sacrament.  Just we are now doing during the COVID-19 hysteria.

Why don’t we do it on behalf of the dead then?  

[longview]

45 minutes ago, Rain said:

I just quoted the church website.  If it is a saving ordinance you better let them know.

It is taught by general authorities of the Church.  Elder Bednar stated in his 2016 April General Conference address:

Obtaining and Retaining a Remission of Sins through Ordinances

To comprehend more fully the process whereby we may obtain and always retain a remission of our sins, we need first to understand the inseparable relationship among three sacred ordinances that provide access to the powers of heaven: baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the sacrament.

The ordinance of the sacrament is a holy and repeated invitation to repent sincerely and to be renewed spiritually.

We truly are blessed each week by the opportunity to evaluate our lives through the ordinance of the sacrament, to renew our covenants, and to receive this covenant promise.³⁰

^{Reference 30 - - -}

See Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley (1997), 561; The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball (1982), 220; N. Eldon Tanner, in Conference Report, Oct. 1966, 98.

Edited May 26, 2020 by longview

[longview]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why don’t we do it on behalf of the dead then?  

I explained it in the second paragraph.  Do you disagree with that statement?

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why don’t we do it on behalf of the dead then?  

It is quite possible the dead have an equivalent ordinance they can perform without physical proxy work being required.

[Rain]

53 minutes ago, longview said:

It is taught by general authorities of the Church.  Elder Bednar stated in his 2016 April General Conference address:

Obtaining and Retaining a Remission of Sins through Ordinances

To comprehend more fully the process whereby we may obtain and always retain a remission of our sins, we need first to understand the inseparable relationship among three sacred ordinances that provide access to the powers of heaven: baptism by immersion, laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the sacrament.

The ordinance of the sacrament is a holy and repeated invitation to repent sincerely and to be renewed spiritually.

We truly are blessed each week by the opportunity to evaluate our lives through the ordinance of the sacrament, to renew our covenants, and to receive this covenant promise.³⁰

^{Reference 30 - - -}

See Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley (1997), 561; The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball (1982), 220; N. Eldon Tanner, in Conference Report, Oct. 1966, 98.

That says it has an inseparable relationship.  It does not teach that sacrament is a saving ordinance. 

[Doctrine 612]

Repenting of your sins does not save you it is your faith in Christ that saves you.

 

the sacrament is a way to remember the Covenants you have made.