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About echelon

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    Newbie: Without form, and void
  1. It is strange to me that the first thing Nephi notices after recognizing Laban is his sword and then spent some time describing how awesome it was. It wasn't until after he drew it out that the spirit spoke to him, though it's not hard to for a passing thought of his own to kill him now that he has it in his hand. He then appears to spend a long time rationalizing it out with occasional personal interpretations of the spirit (as far as I know the Holy Ghost does not have a audible voice like the angels do) and in the end convinced himself that it must be a commandment from God and he must go
  2. I'm not sure of your point. Could you explain? It was more of a reflection than a point. This post has made me reconsider the significance I attribute to all the things the Lord gave us to "help us to endure to the end, to repent of sin after baptism, to renew our covenants, to remember his sacrifice, and to retain the remission of our sins" which, I treated too casually as a result of a lifetime in the church and some negative experiences. Ordinances such as Priesthood blessings, ordinations to the Aaronic Priesthood, and those that I do for the dead (non essential to me, but nec
  3. Okay I see,.. Mosiah 18: 10 and the prayer in Moroni 4 Thank you, sure would have been easier if Jesus just said "This do in remembrance of your baptismal covenant".
  4. This is what Jesus said: "And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. " (Luke 22: 19- 20) This he did for our benefit, because if we remember Him, all our actions and thoughts will be directed for good. Then, somewhere, someone made it about baptismal covenants which I don't get. Maybe
  5. By this definition it sounds like we can replace the word 'Ordinance' with other activities the Lord gave us and also call it saving in nature because they too help towards our salvation. (e.g. Actually keeping the Commandments, Scripture reading, Church Attendance, Repentance Process ect.). Would that be correct?
  6. That's a good point, I never considered the City imposing restrictions on the development plan. Thank you.
  7. I'm not sure I understand this statement, do you mean that Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is the Passover and not the same as the sacrament we have today? or that the Passover and our sacrament today is the same? Either way this interested me and reflected on how different the ordinance is now compared to the Passover, and I have no idea if they had anything like in the days prior to the Passover. From the Church website: "Passover - The Feast of the Passover was instituted to help the children of Israel remember when the destroying angel passed over their houses and delivered them
  8. I like this reasoning. I just can't help but wonder if their development plan is somewhat discriminatory. There does not seem to be any room for apartments or subsidized housing. I get the stereotypes of renters or low income housing and the appeal of single home and large parks, it just feel weird to see the Church not offering equal opportunity in a community that has it's name on it. Will Zion be like that? I can hardly imagine how much a jewel encrusted house with a street made of gold will cost.
  9. God didn't have to manipulate our intelligence to make eternity interesting because all He needs to do is send our spirits here and let the random mortal generator decide how our personalities will manifest itself in all its variety of needs, defects or deficiencies for entertainment. It's astonishing how susceptible our personalities are to mortal conditions, something as simple as sleep can make a person unrecognizable if they don't get enough of it. It's funny how we don't even recognize ourselves at times.
  10. Natural law has no concept of Justice or Sin. If it is God the Father who demands it of us, then it must be by design.
  11. Whether by design or by some natural law, it seems that justice would not be satisfied, no matter how much repentance we do for even the least degree of sin. Personally I think it's by design. God the Father plans for us to be subject to Jesus Christ so he cranked up the price of sin in order for us to have no choice but be indebted to Jesus. It's hard to believe that even unborn children who didn't even seem to have the chance to sin also need Christ. 22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redempti
  12. Is Elder Bednar saying that even with an unlimited amount of time (eternity), Lucifer will not be able to progress in knowledge (outside of what comes with a body) among which how to create a body of his own? Assuming that the first immortalized being started out as a spirit and not as an immortal, then Satan should, if given enough time, be able to do the same thing. So just for fun, let's say that he does know how to make a body. The only way to halt his progress further is to guard over the application of that knowledge by God the Father. (i.e. withholding the materials needed in
  13. Never mind, found my answer in an earlier post by Tacenda. So the answer to my question is that until the revelation, the priesthood was only available to those of the proper lineage. That said, I don't think the restored church ever had a policy dictating which lineage was allowed to have the priesthood and how it is supposed to be determined and applied. As a result, I think the revelation started out as a chastisement and rather than fix the 2 mistakes, one, misinterpreting the curse as evidence of a restricted lineage, and second, not verifying everyone else's lineage bef
  14. To whom then, was the priesthood denied as referenced in the official declaration 2 found in the Doctrine & Covenants? "He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood" This suggests that there were some faithful, worthy men who were purposefully denied the priesthood by the Lord until such a day He seems fit to grant it. If there was never a restriction, then the revelation should have been to 'correct' a misunderstanding and not waiting for a promised day
  15. I have yet to come to terms with God killing people just to teach someone else a lesson. (Uzzah, the Israelite soldiers Moses had to hold up his hands for, and Job's children as mentioned earlier, and maybe even the couple who didn't pay a full tithe) Without any more information I'm unable to differentiate an attempt by a superstitious group of people to explain what appears to be an accidental death from what should be a direct revelation from God explaining to David (if it was for his benefit) why it was done. But we don't have a record of that revelation and so as such, I can only t
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