Has the Prophet Given Any Temporal Advice for Today' Situation?

[thatjimguy]

I know he has issued words about fasting and faith. I am wondering if anything has been said regarding temporal wisdom though. Specifically, should we stay at home or not?

 

[longview]

The lockdown has to ease up sooner than later.  It is not sustainable.  There is an enormous amount of animals, potatoes, chickens, eggs, and many agricultural products being destroyed or misdirected.  More and more, the people will need to practise principles of self-reliance and to try to get the economy rolling back to normal.  Now that a greater part of the population have tested as having antibodies indicating previous exposure to COVID-19 with less severe symptoms, hopefully there will be more willingness to allow "herd immunity" to take effect and the second wave will not be as concerning.

[thatjimguy]

Thank you, but let's keep this thread to specifically about the Prophet's words on this please. I don't want this turning political or debate.

[MustardSeed]

Not to my knowledge he has not.  Thank goodness.  We can certainly think for ourselves. 

[katherine the great]

I think canceling church and regular temple schedules, having virtual conference, cancelling live classes and sending missionaries home all speak to temporal concerns. 

[CV75]

3 hours ago, thatjimguy said:

I know he has issued words about fasting and faith. I am wondering if anything has been said regarding temporal wisdom though. Specifically, should we stay at home or not?

 

"...be good global citizens and do all we can to limit the spread of COVID-19..."

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

"...be good global citizens and do all we can to limit the spread of COVID-19..."

It might be nit picky, and I mean no disrespect to the Church or the prophet, who, like any of us, can get caught up in the vernacular of the day. But “global citizen” is a buzz term I don’t like. I will explain. 
 

“Citizen” is a word that implies allegiance, deference and obeisance to a sovereign entity, such as a nation or state. There is no global sovereign that I know of, certainly none that I recognize. 
 

If pressed to come up with a substitute term for “global citizens” I might suggest “global neighbors” or “members of the global community.” They convey roughly the same idea without the unintended baggage to which I object. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

4 hours ago, thatjimguy said:

I know he has issued words about fasting and faith. I am wondering if anything has been said regarding temporal wisdom though. Specifically, should we stay at home or not?

 

The First Presidency has, does that count?

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-letter-administrative-principles-in-challenging-times

And while not issued under his office or the FP, I suspect it was their directive to put so much info on the Coronavirus in one spot as it is an unusual move for the newsroom. This info includes a basic health primer that local leaders are told to encourage their members to follow:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/coronavirus-update#preventative-measures

Quote

Regularly and thoroughly wash your hands with soap and water or clean them with an alcohol-based hand rub.

Avoid close contact with people who are sick (this may include avoiding shaking hands or other customary greetings).

Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth.

Stay home when you are sick.

Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash.

Maintain at least six feet (two meters) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.

Follow public health agency recommendations for using a face mask.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Calm

[Maureen]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s might be nit picky, and I mean no disrespect to the Church or the prophet, who, like any of us, can get caught up in the vernacular of the day. But “global citizen” is buzz term I don’t like. I will explain. 
 

“Citizen” is a word that implies allegiance, deference and obeisance to a sovereign entity, such as a nation or state. There is no global sovereign that I know of, certainly none that I recognize....

Or the word citizen can also be defined as

"an inhabitant of a particular town or city".

So in this case "global citizen" can simply be an inhabitant of the world.

M.

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

“Citizen” is a word that implies allegiance, deference and obeisance to a sovereign entity, such as a nation or state. There is no global sovereign that I know of, certainly none that I recognize. 

There was that Galilean carpenter that claimed the title. I sort of assumed you accepted his legitimacy.  

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There was that Galilean carpenter that claimed the title. I sort of assumed you accepted his legitimacy.  

“Global citizen”? Where? 
 

Oh, you mean global sovereign? Nah. Not with the political meaning that imbues the word sovereign as it is used in the here and now. In fact, that “render unto Caesar“ aphorism pretty much contradicts it. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

Or the word citizen can also be defined as

"an inhabitant of a particular town or city".

So in this case "global citizen" can simply be an inhabitant of the world.

M.

The world is not “a particular town or city.” Too much of a stretch in meaning for my liking, even if you do rationalize it that way. 
 

If what is meant is merely “inhabitant of the world,” why not express it as global inhabitants? Unless there is some implied message of being subject to or obeying some world ruler or sovereign, which is the very idea I have objected to. 
 

Besides, those who live in a town or city are more often referred to as its residents. Calling a person a “citizen” of a city seems a loose application of the word. One who is born elsewhere in the country doesn’t undergo procedures to become a naturalized citizen of Los Angeles. There is no such thing. One simply moves there. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

Duplicate post. Please disregard. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It might be nit picky, and I mean no disrespect to the Church or the prophet, who, like any of us, can get caught up in the vernacular of the day. But “global citizen” is a buzz term I don’t like. I will explain. 

“Citizen” is a word that implies allegiance, deference and obeisance to a sovereign entity, such as a nation or state. There is no global sovereign that I know of, certainly none that I recognize. 

If pressed to come up with a substitute term for “global citizens” I might suggest “global neighbors” or “members of the global community.” They convey roughly the same idea without the unintended baggage to which I object. 

Yes, there are various contexts for the term. In this case, I think he is using it as the temporal counterpart to Ephesians 2:19. When we are "fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God," even though our "dominions upon the face of the earth are small," we are like leaven and can bless the whole. I think this is part of the strength of our recent fasts.

From Wikipedia (FWIW): "This does not mean that such a person denounces or waives their nationality or other, more local identities, but that such identities are given "second place" to their membership in a global community." I do not include denomination or spiritual identity in "such identities." and these rightly take priority (as in "I am a child of God").

[Bob Crockett]

Global plagues and pestilence are here to strengthen the human race, from an evolutionary standpoint, and to strengthen the soul.  If there was a simple solution, like painting blood on door posts, we'd be told and then it wouldn't be much of a challenge.  It is part of the eternal game theory that dominates the universe. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Bob Crockett

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Yes, there are various contexts for the term. In this case, I think he is using it as the temporal counterpart to Ephesians 2:19. When we are "fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God," even though our "dominions upon the face of the earth are small," we are like leaven and can bless the whole. I think this is part of the strength of our recent fasts.

From Wikipedia (FWIW): "This does not mean that such a person denounces or waives their nationality or other, more local identities, but that such identities are given "second place" to their membership in a global community." I do not include denomination or spiritual identity in "such identities." and these rightly take priority (as in "I am a child of God").

I don’t think he could have meant it in the sense you suggest. The Ephesians passage pertains to those who have united themselves with the covenant people of God. “Global citizens” as used here does not have that limited meaning. Rather, it is as much as to say all the inhabitants of the earth. It is, at best, a figurative, nontechnical use of the word “citizens.” 

And your Wikipedia passage conveys the false notion that there is some earthly global sovereign to which everyone owes allegiance that supersedes the sovereignty of the nation to which one belongs. This is, of course, globalist nonsense, and I don’t believe it is what the Church leaders intended to convey. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[OGHoosier]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There was that Galilean carpenter that claimed the title. I sort of assumed you accepted his legitimacy.  

Well, he claimed it provisionally, to be fully realized in the future. Millenial kingdom of God and all that. 

[strappinglad]

The entire Church was shut down within a few days. I suspect that the Church will reopen on a state by state/country by country basis and guidelines proffered even then. 

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Oh, you mean global sovereign? Nah. Not with the political meaning that imbues the word sovereign as it is used in the here and now. In fact, that “render unto Caesar“ aphorism pretty much contradicts it. 

You don't think king of kings has political meaning?  I assume you are also familiar with Church teachings on the political kingdom with Christ at the head.

In the gospel the differentiation between king and priest in the priesthood exists.

[Scott Lloyd]

38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You don't think king of kings has political meaning?  I assume you are also familiar with Church teachings on the political kingdom with Christ at the head.

In the gospel the differentiation between king and priest in the priesthood exists.

Whatever political meaning “King of kings” has pertains to the millennial reign of Christ — which millennial reign has yet to transpire. 
 

Surely I don’t need to remind you of that. 
 

Let us not confuse gospel doctrine with leftist ideology. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[amo]

8 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I think ... cancelling live classes ... all speak to temporal concerns. 

When / where / has this happened? 

Who did it?

[JLHPROF]

43 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Whatever political meaning “King of kings” has pertains to the millennial reign of Christ — which millennial reign has yet to transpire. 
 

Surely I don’t need to remind you of that. 
 

Let us not confuse gospel doctrine with leftist ideology. 

The political kingdom of God was established by the Prophet Joseph in Nauvoo.  Christ's personal reign may be for the Millennium but the political governing element has already been restored.

Sometimes we still see reminders of this in these parts

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

The political kingdom of God was established by the Prophet Joseph in Nauvoo.  Christ's personal reign may be for the Millennium but the political governing element has already been restored.

Sometimes we still see reminders of this in these parts

 

Where In the world is that political kingdom operative at this moment?
 

The Council of 50 had some utility in Nauvoo after Illinois revoked the city charter and there was no other political entity to govern and keep the peace. And it had some functionality in exploring possible locations where the body of the Church might relocate after the exodus from Nauvoo. And it continued to meet to a limited degree after the resettlement in the Salt Lake Valley. But it faded soon thereafter and, thus far, has not been heard of since. 
 

Besides, what possible relevance does this have to a present-day global sovereign political entity or to so-called global citizenry? Again, let us not conflate Church history or gospel doctrine with 21st century leftist ideology. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[JLHPROF]

58 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Where In the world is that political kingdom operative at this moment?
 

The Council of 50 had some utility in Nauvoo after Illinois revoked the city charter and there was no other political entity to govern and keep the peace. And it had some functionality in exploring possible locations where the body of the Church might relocate after the exodus from Nauvoo. And it continued to meet to a limited degree after the resettlement in the Salt Lake Valley. But it faded soon thereafter and, thus far, has not been heard of since. 
 

Besides, what possible relevance does this have to a present-day global sovereign political entity or to so-called global citizenry? Again, let us not conflate Church history or gospel doctrine with 21st century leftist ideology. 

My point to your original comment is that we do have a global sovereign- Jesus Christ.  And that's political as well as spiritual.

This earth literally belongs to him as his inheritance and the organization he will use to administrate the political aspects was restored.  At some point the earthly kingdoms will fall and he will exercise that right even if the political kingdom is currently in waiting.

Long live the King and hasten his theocracy!

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Again, let us not conflate Church history or gospel doctrine with 21st century leftist ideology. 

Mate, this is an argument you may wish to take up with the one whose words you so dislike: Pres Nelson.