Rumors of Changes to Temple Worship

[SouthernMo]

14 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

That particular covenant is what has solidified, preserved, and sanctified the Gui marriage. We both take it very seriously, but there is no subservience involved.

How is a woman covenanting to hearken to her husband's counsel when a man makes no such covenant to his wife not a form of subservience?  At a minimum, there is an unequal relationship established by covenant!

[Scott Lloyd]

I will be open to whatever future modifications the Brethren, acting under the divine inspiration to which they are entitled, might choose to make to the temple ceremonies. But I think there is something wrong-headed about wanting to see them revised just because we desire them to take less of our personal time. Perhaps we need to slow down, open our eyes, ears and hearts, and receive whatever the Lord might have in store for us through the catalyst of the things we see, hear and do in His house. 

[SouthernMo]

39 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

What about children that attend and participate in a sealing as they haven't participated in the endowment.  

Awesome point.

[Michael Sudworth]

19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As an ordinance worker, I've not heard anything about mandatory meetings in early January. Perhaps that is a regional thing.

 

When I worked in the temple back in 2005 (IIRC), we had a meeting in January where President Hinckley's changes to initiatory were explained along with details of how the updated ordinance was to be performed.  I only worked in the temple less than a year so I don't know if these January meetings were regular or not.

[Michael Sudworth]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I will be open to whatever future modifications the Brethren, acting under the divine inspiration to which they are entitled, might choose to make to the temple ceremonies. But I think there is something wrong-headed about wanting to see them revised just because we desire them to take less of our personal time. Perhaps we need to slow down, open our eyes, ears and hearts, and receive whatever the Lord might have in store for us through the catalyst of the things we see, hear and do in His house. 

There is so much truth in this statement.

I used to listen to my grandmother talk about her first, and subsequent visits to the temple.  In her day, they dedicated nearly a full day to initiatory and endowment services.  I think it would be a tremendous blessing for us to have the opportunity to be in the temple for an extended period.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Michael Sudworth

[HappyJackWagon]

11 hours ago, Maidservant said:

 

I do like the idea of separating weddings and sealings.  In fact, I don't agree with weddings.  I think they mock marriages.  But that's me.

 

I'm thinking I must be misunderstanding what you're saying here.

Are you saying that weddings mock marriage?

If so, I'm scratching my head.

[Scott Lloyd]

14 hours ago, cinepro said:

Yeah, about that...

 

14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

They were just trying to get to the finish line early.  Too bad we lost those lofty ideals somewhere along the line...

Zech 14:20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

There is something sublimely instructive about our pioneer forebears, struggling to survive and thrive in the desert as a people  and a church charged with carrying out a divine mission, endeavoring to sanctify an economic and temporal enterprise with the same slogan that is placed on our temples. Could it be that they possessed an understanding that we today lack? 

The Lord taught, as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, that all things to Him are spiritual and that He has not at any time given a commandment that was temporal. What a shame if we fail to grasp that teaching. 

[SouthernMo]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Could it be that they possessed an understanding that we today lack? 

 

 Are you saying that the leaders of our church who have decided to remove they phrase “holiness to the lord” from ZCMI stores lack an understanding that earlier church leaders had?

[Traela]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

What about children that attend and participate in a sealing as they haven't participated in the endowment.  

 

 

Children are not brought into the sealing room until after their parents have finished their own sealing.

 

[SouthernMo]

No temple content.  ~Mods

[rockpond]

I have it on fairly good authority that the changes to the endowment will start on Jan 2.  (I haven't read through the thread so if this has already been mentioned, my apologies.)

[Nacho2dope]

No temple content. ~Mods

[bluebell]

24 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I have it on fairly good authority that the changes to the endowment will start on Jan 2.  (I haven't read through the thread so if this has already been mentioned, my apologies.)

If true that's interesting, that they would begin the changes before having any meetings with the ordinance workers to explain/train for the changes.  

[Hestia]

This thread will be locked if temple content is posted.  Please remember that posting temple content can get someone banned.  

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Michael Sudworth said:

There is so much truth in this statement.

I used to listen to my grandmother talk about her first, and subsequent visits to the temple.  In her day, they dedicated nearly a full day to initiatory and endowment services.  I think it would be a tremendous blessing for us to have the opportunity to be in the temple for an extended period.

You can stay there all day if you like, doing different ordinances.  Or you could become a temple worker and do that weekly! 

For that matter you could spend as much time every single day if you wanted to.   I know of people who literally do that!!

I know one brother who's employment is temple security and he is also a temple worker who works multiple shifts every week and at least one shift every day as a temple worker besides his employment.  His whole life is in the temple in one facet or other.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

How is a woman covenanting to hearken to her husband's counsel when a man makes no such covenant to his wife not a form of subservience?  At a minimum, there is an unequal relationship established by covenant!

I would ask you to think about it for a while.

[mfbukowski]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If true that's interesting, that they would begin the changes before having any meetings with the ordinance workers to explain/train for the changes.  

IF it is true maybe the training will start on the 2nd?

[HappyJackWagon]

14 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

Its been about a month or so since I have been to the temple but I don't remember it that way. What I believe is said is that women will obey the Law of the Lord and Hearken to their husbands and he hearkens to God. Something like that. But to me that puts the pressure on the husband that he better be doing what God has asked of him. I don't see it as a wife's blind obedience to husbands, though some people do take it that way. I could totally be wrong

This is one of the changes in the 1990 version. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by HappyJackWagon

[mfbukowski]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

I would ask you to think about it for a while.

I agree but their minds are already made up.  A man person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. 

 

[mnn727]

12 hours ago, Maidservant said:

  I also think that we only have a small portion of the endowment in any case--the Adam and Eve portion; I am looking forward to the Seth, Enoch, Noah (and onward) portions.

 

First time I went through I thought we would see all the dispensations represented, at about the hour point I was wondering how we'd get them all in.

[mnn727]

1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

How is a woman covenanting to hearken to her husband's counsel when a man makes no such covenant to his wife not a form of subservience?  At a minimum, there is an unequal relationship established by covenant!

hearken to her husband's counsel AS HE HEARKENS TO THE LORD'S

The part I capitalized makes a BIG difference in that statement, especially when seen in terms of the endowment.

 

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

IF it is true maybe the training will start on the 2nd?

It definitely could, it would just mean that there would be some workers who were already in the thick of things with the changes before they were trained on them.  But, depending on what the changes could be, that woudn't necessarily be a problem.  It seems like simple changes could easily be incorporated without any fanfare.  

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, mnn727 said:

hearken to her husband's counsel AS HE HEARKENS TO THE LORD'S

The part I capitalized makes a BIG difference in that statement, especially when seen in terms of the endowment.

 

I agree it does make a difference.  However, the unbalanced relationship is still there in that the husband is not required to harken to the council of his wife as she follows God.  

[SouthernMo]

46 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I agree but their minds are already made up.  A man person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. 

 

My mind is not made up.  I think I'm more open-minded than you think I am.

But, when the only response is "Think about it for a while", it's a very weak response.  Not sure why @Bernard Gui chose not to give a detailed response...

[mfbukowski]

8 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

My mind is not made up.  I think I'm more open-minded than you think I am.

But, when the only response is "Think about it for a while", it's a very weak response.  Not sure why @Bernard Gui chose not to give a detailed response...

It's clear to me but I ain't goin there either.  Mob shout downs are not my favorite way of spending my time