Is this a "safe" place to send a persons with a faith crisis?

[Stargazer]

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

[jkwilliams]

In all honesty, I'd steer your friend clear of this place. I know people here have good intentions, but no, I would not send someone here if they are struggling. 

[Scott Lloyd]

In a word, no.

While this place is not the free-for-all that other message boards are, it is open and welcoming to a degree to those with hostile attitudes toward the Church and the restored gospel. Not the sort of lion's den I would want to throw a friend into who is experiencing a "faith crisis."

www.fairmormon.org is much better

Edited August 15, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In a word, no.

While this place is not the free-for-all that other message boards are, it is open and welcoming to a degree to those with hostile attitudes toward the Church and the restored gospel. Not the sort of lion's den I would want to throw a friend into who is experiencing a "faith crisis."

www.fairmormon.org is much beter

Personally, I wouldn't steer them here or fairmormon. FAIR was a major instigator of my faith crisis. Not only did it open me up to lots of new information but I also saw how "the faithful" often treated people with questions  and non-orthodox views.

So it depends on what their purpose is. Do they need a place to ask any questions, be skeptical, get a variety of opinions? If so, then this place will work. But if they're trying to stay actively engaged in the church I'd recommend a FB group like A Thoughtful Faith.

[SouthernMo]

No - It is generally not safe if the goal is to find compassion and help.  I've found that people come here to debate ideas.  If one comes in meekly with the hope that his or her shared perspectives will find warmth and welcoming, that is not always the case.

But, it depends on the person.  Perhaps someone whose feelings aren't easily hurt and would like to hear the perspectives of others who have unorthodox perspectives would find this site helpful.

[SouthernMo]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Not only did it open me up to lots of new information but I also saw how "the faithful" often treated people with questions  and non-orthodox views.

Agreed, man!  Some TBMs can be quite harsh and exclusive.

[smac97]

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Is this a "safe" place to send a persons with a faith crisis?

Kinda sorta.  This is a rough-and-tumble sort of place.  Lots of people more than willing to tear down the Church, to find fault with it about anything under the sun.  And a non-trivial number of such persons are members of the Church.  

The "Social Hall" portion of this board may be a better place.

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

I would not send most people here.  Too many critics.  Too many disgruntled, faultfinding members.  Too many who are here to tear down faith and sow seeds of doubt.

It would depend on the personality and circumstances of the individual.  For example, my son isin the last few months of his Church Service Mission, which he has spent in the Referral Center at the MTC.  He is quite accustomed to people who are predisposed to cynicism and faithlessness, who are eager to vilify and profane sacred things, who are out to defame and denigrate the LDS Church and its leaders and members.  I think he would do fine here if he wanted to come here.

That said, I'm not sure he would want to come here.  This board is an adversarial construct, which I generally find helpful in scrutinizing what I believe and why.  But that's me as an attorney.  My wife is a very intelligent and well-informed person, but I don't think she would enjoy being here.  And I don't really blame her.  This board is not for everyone

We come to this board to discuss and argue, and that can sometimes be contentious and devoid of the Spirit.  That's not really the best environment for someone in a "faith crisis."

We should focus on the substance of the topics at hand, but that can sometimes devolve into bickering and personal jabs.  Again, not an ideal environment for someone struggling with their faith.

8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better. 

I think a person who came this board and advertised - either expressly or through the tone/content of their posts - that they are in a "faith crisis" would attract a lot of negativity from some (though not all) of our crop of cranks an critics.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

11 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Personally, I wouldn't steer them here or fairmormon. FAIR was a major instigator of my faith crisis. Not only did it open me up to lots of new information but I also saw how "the faithful" often treated people with questions  and non-orthodox views.

Hmm.  FAIR has been a wonderful resource for me.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[mfbukowski]

27 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

I have wondered about this for sometime now, and I think the answer is "no".

I would go to Fairmormon instead which is pretty safe

We have too many uninformed people hereabouts who do not understand Mormonism but think they do, and they will argue with those who DO understand it saying things like "No Mormons believe thus and so" which is not even close, or if it IS an opinion some hold, only SOME hold it.

We are a very flexible faith - which itself is a controversial position here- and can cover many variations in literalism vs symbolism etc.

Nah I wouldn't recommend it at all.   Too unpredictable.

[Stargazer]

20 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Personally, I wouldn't steer them here or fairmormon. FAIR was a major instigator of my faith crisis. Not only did it open me up to lots of new information but I also saw how "the faithful" often treated people with questions  and non-orthodox views.

So it depends on what their purpose is. Do they need a place to ask any questions, be skeptical, get a variety of opinions? If so, then this place will work. But if they're trying to stay actively engaged in the church I'd recommend a FB group like A Thoughtful Faith.

I've wondered about FAIR, as well.  I've found it to be very useful to me, but then I think I had already run into any number of new-to-me tidbits that I had put on a backburner until I had better answers than I possessed at a given time.  But I think I can see that if someone has just a few "things" nagging at him or her, learning about a whole new constellation of them might be a bit overwhelming.

I suppose that someone might keep the information found at FAIR on tap, and then dispense it as needed -- like a doctor prescribes only the medication that the patent needs, rather than dumping the whole pharmacopeia upon them at one go!

[hope_for_things]

38 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

It probably depends on a number of factors, the personality of the person you're directing here along with how members of the board interact with the person.  I've noticed that new members of the board are sometimes treated with a little less patience which is unfortunate.  I'd say to send them over.  I know for me, that writing out my questions and thoughts has been a helpful part of mental and emotional processing during my faith journey.  It would be also helpful for them to find a live person to interact with on occasion as it can feel lonely to go through a faith crisis. 

I think this is a safe enough message board, based on the rules, that they should be able to participate without feeling like the board sways to much towards any particulate ideological perspective, we seem to have a mix of more believing and less believing participants.  

[juliann]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Personally, I wouldn't steer them here or fairmormon. FAIR was a major instigator of my faith crisis. Not only did it open me up to lots of new information but I also saw how "the faithful" often treated people with questions  and non-orthodox views.

 

Really? Because FM only has contact with people through direct personal email. And those who write in are treated very well, on a very few occasions where someone has said something too harsh, others jump in. 

Are you saying their website contact treats people badly? Please provide an example of that. 

[Ryan Dahle]

52 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I've wondered about FAIR, as well.  I've found it to be very useful to me, but then I think I had already run into any number of new-to-me tidbits that I had put on a backburner until I had better answers than I possessed at a given time.  But I think I can see that if someone has just a few "things" nagging at him or her, learning about a whole new constellation of them might be a bit overwhelming.

I suppose that someone might keep the information found at FAIR on tap, and then dispense it as needed -- like a doctor prescribes only the medication that the patent needs, rather than dumping the whole pharmacopeia upon them at one go!

If you want faith-promoting research that helps address a lot of concerns without leading people into new concerns, try Book of Mormon Central. 

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

Not a safe place.

Mainly good for intellectual discussions or if you just want repeat your opinion over and over and over . . 

[champatsch]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

In all honesty, I'd steer your friend clear of this place. I know people here have good intentions, but no, I would not send someone here if they are struggling. 

That's probably right. There's too much unreliable information and opinion that gets thrown around here.

There are too many here who are content to be dilettantes or ideologues and offer vague, civil, fair-sounding dismissals of things of substance that might actually benefit someone in a faith crisis.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

I would say a personal, face to face experience with someone he knows and trusts would be far more beneficial.

[Stargazer]

16 minutes ago, juliann said:

Really? Because FM only has contact with people through direct personal email. And those who write in are treated very well, on a very few occasions where someone has said something too harsh, others jump in. 

Are you saying their website contact treats people badly? Please provide an example of that. 

I used to be a member of the FM mailing list, and I did not see anyone being treated badly, and on a few occasions where the response seemed less than compassionate you're right there were others who jumped in to moderate things.

I think the only times when responses were hostile was when the questioner seemed hostile.  

Thanks for reminding me of that list.  That might be a good place to send the person I'm concerned about.

[Stargazer]

Just now, CV75 said:

I would say a personal, face to face experience with someone he knows and trusts would be far more beneficial.

Yeah, but if the person is not knowledgeable enough -- which is probably the case here, it might not be as beneficial as you might hope.

[smac97]

Here are a few additional thoughts (posted previously here, discussing the generalized state of apologetics, which for me is heavily influenced by my pariticpation on this board) :

Quote

A few thoughts:

1. There really isn't much new to discuss.  We end up re-litigating the same topics over and over again, or else minor variations of the same topics.

2. The topics that are discussed seem to have reached sort of an end-stage.  The data points and talking points are being recycled.

3. FAIR, Mormon Interpreter, BookofMormonCentral, Jeff Lindsay, and a few other resources seem to have addressed pretty much all of the substantive criticisms of the doctrines of the Church.  That is not to say that these explanations and such are undeniably persuasive.  There's still plenty of room to disagree.  But both sides have argued each other into a stalemate.

4. Online debates about the merits of the truth claims of the LDS Church can only get you so far.  Moroni's Promise, prayer, faith, humility, service, patience, endurance, and so on are, I think, the means God intends for us to use when seeking a determination on the Church's truth claims..  Adversarial discussions . . . not so much.

And here:

Quote

I think you raise a good point.  Most discussions here are less about doctrine, and more about "social issues."  These issues can have a doctrinal dimension, but the emphasis is on the social and emotional aspects of the issues, rather than their doctrinal dimensions.

Take, for example, issues relating to homosexuality (particularly same-sex marriage).  We have all sorts of discussions on these issues all the time, but very little discussion of the doctrines, principally the Law of Chastity and the constellation of doctrines pertaining to marriage.

From a doctrinal point of view, the Church's 2015 policy changes make a lot of sense.  

From a purely (or predominantly) social/emotional point of view, the policy changes are, for some, deeply problematic.

I'm reminded here of this exchange between Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi from The Return of the Jedi:

Quote

[Yoda has passed into The Force, Luke is sitting outside his hut with R2]

Luke: I can't do it, R2. I can't go on alone.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: [voice emanates from nowhere] Yoda will always be with you. [reveals himself as a spirit walking nearby]

Luke: Obi-Wan. Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

Obi-Wan: Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.

Luke: [incredulously] A certain point of view?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

I've actually never really thought much of this exchange.  I took it as a convenient bit of dialogue intended to retcon Obi-Wan's dialogue from A New Hope about Luke's father and Darth Vader (and it probably was).

But applied here, maybe it has some utility.  The Church's policy changes are, alternatively, sensible and good or incomprehensible and bad depending on one's point of view.

Unfortunately, I think much of the discussion on this board focuses far too much on social/emotional points of view that are are malleable and ill-defined and effervescent and too susceptible to prevailing social trends.  We argue too much about whether a thing pertaining to the Church is popular, and not enough about whether it is right.  Or worse, we conflate the two, such that

• socially popular at the moment = morally right, and
• socially unpopular at the moment = morally wrong.

Meanwhile, the doctrines seem to almost be left by the wayside.

Yep.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited August 14, 2018 by smac97

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

It probably depends on the person.

One thing that I think needs to be made clear to people who have a "faith crisis" is that the goal isn't to try and somehow get back to where they were before the crisis.  The person that they were is now dead, and they're not coming back.

The goal is to try and become the person they are going to become.   And who is that person, and what will they believe?  No one knows.  That person may have faith in the Church's claims and belief in the Church's teachings, but it is going to be a different kind of faith and belief.  And it seems to be different for everyone.  Lots of different factors are in play.

So is this board "safe"?  "Safe" for what?  Are we going to help them get back to the kind of faith they used to have?  No, because like I said, it isn't going to happen.  Will FairMormon be safer?  I don't think so, because most of what I've seen from them seems to be from the idea that if we just look at stuff a certain way, then we can go back to the way we used to be and forget about all this disturbing new stuff.  Again, it doesn't work.

I think this board does about as good a job as any place helping people get where they're going to go.  Other avenues might seem more helpful in that they mete out the info at a slower pace and thus slow down the journey, but  I don't know if "slower" is the same thing as "safer." 

[Hamba Tuhan]

I'm not even sure what a 'faith crisis' is supposed to be, and I'm not convinced everyone who uses the term means the same thing, so it depends.

Far better would be to send him/her to my house. I'm not sure I can help, but I probably won't hurt, and it'll all involve really good food!

Edited August 14, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

The question in the title just about covers it.  

I'm asking because I have a particular individual in mind, but also generally.  

Sometimes I think the answer might be "yes", and sometimes "no", but your opinion is solicited.

And by "safe" I mean will participating here make things worse with respect to the faith crisis, or better.  I know that nothing is 100%, but overall, if all things are equal.  Feel free to answer, even if you're not an LDS believer.

 

Safer than most places, but all opinions are welcome here, and not all are pro-Mormon. Therefore tread lightly in your referral. Now, LDS.Net is more proMormon, and Facebook has sites like "1,000,000 Mormons", and (I think) "Mormons for Christ", and of course LDS.ORG, which has various forums, and phone numbers to speak live with missionaries and members. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

In all honesty, I'd steer your friend clear of this place. I know people here have good intentions, but no, I would not send someone here if they are struggling. 

Knowing you feelings, this just makes me love you brother. BTW, I erased all my e-mails, so if I can get it working via WIFI, I will let you know so we can correspond once again via e-mail. Hopefully soon.  

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Knowing you feelings, this just makes me love you brother. BTW, I erased all my e-mails, so if I can get it working via WIFI, I will let you know so we can correspond once again via e-mail. Hopefully soon.  

I’m being totally serious that I wouldn’t wish a loss of faith on anyone. It’s the most painful experience I’ve ever been through. I almost lost my life and my family. 

If you’re happy in the church, there’s no reason to put yourself through that. And I do think that coming to a combative place like this isn’t going to help.

[bluebell]

When it comes to faith crises, I think so much depends on the person experiencing one. What would be a safe place for one, won't be for another.  Some people in a faith crisis see reasons why the church isn't true when they find out more information while others see reasons it is.  I think that's often an issue of personality too.