Calm Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: I do remember hearing about that one, though I never posted or even read there. Wasn't Bill Reel involved with that project during his brief and ill-fated association with FAIR? My understanding from what I heard is that it became overrun with antagonists and got out of control. Reel posted on it. He might have been involved with the first version of it (three months or less one). My memory is by the time the second version was out, he was out of FM, but .I could be wrong.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: So, HJW was not telling a creative atrocity story, after all. I had no idea such a board ever existed, so I can’t comment on HJW’s experience. It's fairly clear now he was conflating that later board with the original FAIR board that morphed into this one.
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: It's fairly clear now he was conflating that later board with the original FAIR board that morphed into this one. It sounds like you and Juliann were doing the conflating. I’m pretty sure the original FAIR board had been long gone when HJW arrived on the scene. 2
Calm Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It's fairly clear now he was conflating that later board with the original FAIR board that morphed into this one. Probably not. There were a few moments of mayhem, which got the board locked down. The board was being treated like this board by some of the nonFM posters, which was not its purpose. The only one I know of banned was LDS, but not a FM member (zerinus). Iirc, Juliann was involved in other projects. The newer board had two parts, one was to serve as a chatroom for FM members so we wouldn't derail the question service. That was private, but most preferred the exist we had been using to socialize, so not much used except to debate where the main board should be headed...what rules, process, format, mission statement...was not really needed. I hadn't looked at the first version until it was defunct and had forgotten it even existed, so not surprised Juliann forgot or wasn't aware of it at all. Edited August 16, 2018 by Calm
Scott Lloyd Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: It sounds like you and Juliann were doing the conflating. I’m pretty sure the original FAIR board had been long gone when HJW arrived on the scene. I see now that you are right. He confused me by referring to "the old FAIR discussion board." The one he was talking about is barely in my consciousness. What I think of as the old FAIR board is that one Calm talked about, the original FAIR discussion board that was eventually divested and became this current board. As you noted, that predated his presence by quite a bit, and he likely wasn't even aware of it. Edited August 16, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 1
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: I see now that you are right. He confused me by referring to "the old FAIR discussion board." The one he was talking about is barely in my consciousness. What I think of as the old FAIR board is that one Calm talked about, the original FAIR discussion board that was eventually divested and became this current board. Same here, which is why I assumed he was talking about something else.
Calm Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I see now that you are right. He confused me by referring to "the old FAIR discussion board." The one he was talking about is barely in my consciousness. What I think of as the old FAIR board is that one Calm talked about, the original FAIR discussion board that was eventually divested and became this current board. As you noted, that predated his presence by quite a bit, and he likely wasn't even aware of it. The Support Board was always known as FairMormon as well. That may be why Juliann is saying his info is wrong. I think it was always known as the Support Board, but that might have been only the second incarnation of the second board. Edited August 16, 2018 by Calm 1
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 Just now, Calm said: The Support Board was always known as FairMormon as well. That may be why Juliann is saying his info is wrong. Yeah, that’s my guess too. It’s an easy mistake to make, but I’ll bet HJW wasn’t expecting that kind of response.
Nemesis Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 No this is not a safe space for anyone. Beware of skylla. Nemesis
The Nehor Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Nemesis said: No this is not a safe space for anyone. Beware of skylla. Nemesis Skylla is a wonderful person who I will obey at all costs out of sincere devotion and not just because they might do more horrible things to my avatar. Edited August 16, 2018 by The Nehor
Tacenda Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, Nemesis said: No this is not a safe space for anyone. Beware of skylla. Nemesis I like when you and skylla join in!
juliann Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 51 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Yeah, that’s my guess too. It’s an easy mistake to make, but I’ll bet HJW wasn’t expecting that kind of response. Hmm. Sure, it’s my fault for taking him at his word. How silly of me to not know the “old FAIR message board” was code for the totally different FairMormon Support board. And he is creating atrocity tales. As Nevo said, there was no pattern of bad behavior from FM people. I didn’t participate much but my recollection was that it was dominated by a few critics who demanded to criticize Mormonism nonstop. They relentlessly supervised responses and were outraged if any response didn’t meet their demands for the utmost deference. In their minds, a support board meant they got to rag on the church day in and day out and be supported in doing it. You can’t get enough supporters to take that kind of time when there is no resolution or respect for their time as it became more than apparent this group only wanted to argue. They treated the place just like this message board. It was a great idea but a huge failure.
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 1 minute ago, juliann said: Hmm. Sure, it’s my fault for taking him at his word. How silly of me to not know the “old FAIR message board” was code for the totally different FairMormon Support board. And he is creating atrocity tales. As Nevo said, there was no pattern of bad behavior from FM people. I didn’t participate much but my recollection was that it was dominated by a few critics who demanded to criticize Mormonism nonstop. They relentlessly supervised responses and were outraged if any response didn’t meet their demands for the utmost deference. In their minds, a support board meant they got to rag on the church day in and day out and be supported in doing it. You can’t get enough supporters to take that kind of time when there is no resolution or respect for their time as it became more than apparent this group only wanted to argue. They treated the place just like this message board. It was a great idea but a huge failure. You made a mistaken assumption about what he was talking about. Not a big deal. 1
Calm Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, jkwilliams said: You made a mistaken assumption about what he was talking about. Not a big deal. We actually made a big deal that it was a "Support Board". The plan as I understood it was to be at the start more of a one questioner with a few mentors than open discussion. Then as questioners moved into a more faithful point of view, we anticipated they would move into supporting newbies as well. In essence, an online therapy/support group where there was mutual support to develop faithful POVs, though the expectation was they would be varied.
LoudmouthMormon Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Never heard of mormonhub. What is it? It used to be lds.net. Run by the More Good Foundation, which is not associated with the church, but the last time I checked, had a GA or two on the board. It's by Mormons, for Mormons (and anyone who wants to know about us). Show up to learn (or if you have a faith crisis with which you need help), you're fine. Show up to criticize the church, you'll be shown the door (and if I see you, I'll point you towards mormondialogue). Site rules include agreeing to not upload, post, link to, etc anything critical of the church. They have a nonmormon moderator. I'm a moderator there, but I come here to argue, because arguing is fun! Edited August 16, 2018 by LoudmouthMormon 2
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 43 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: It used to be lds.net. Run by the More Good Foundation, which is not associated with the church, but the last time I checked, had a GA or two on the board. It's by Mormons, for Mormons (and anyone who wants to know about us). Show up to learn (or if you have a faith crisis with which you need help), you're fine. Show up to criticize the church, you'll be shown the door (and if I see you, I'll point you towards mormondialogue). Site rules include agreeing to not upload, post, link to, etc anything critical of the church. They have a nonmormon moderator. I'm a moderator there, but I come here to argue, because arguing is fun! I hadn't thought about the More Good folks. True story: I used to get regular hits on my blog from the church office building. I mentioned that in passing in a blog post, and immediately the hits stopped and instead I started getting hits from More Good. It wasn't too long after that when I was told my blog had been deemed harmless in a meeting at the COB. That's kind of cool that they have a non-Mormon moderator. 1
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Calm said: We actually made a big deal that it was a "Support Board". The plan as I understood it was to be at the start more of a one questioner with a few mentors than open discussion. Then as questioners moved into a more faithful point of view, we anticipated they would move into supporting newbies as well. In essence, an online therapy/support group where there was mutual support to develop faithful POVs, though the expectation was they would be varied. It is really difficult to make any predictions based on human behavior, isn't it? I remember the high hopes I had for The World Table and how disappointing that was.
Atheist Mormon Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 Quote Is this a "safe" place to send a persons with a faith crisis? From my unbelieving perspective this is a pretty good place to discuss anyone's doubt...Very moderate and unoffensive. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, juliann said: Hmm. Sure, it’s my fault for taking him at his word. How silly of me to not know the “old FAIR message board” was code for the totally different FairMormon Support board. And he is creating atrocity tales. As Nevo said, there was no pattern of bad behavior from FM people. I didn’t participate much but my recollection was that it was dominated by a few critics who demanded to criticize Mormonism nonstop. They relentlessly supervised responses and were outraged if any response didn’t meet their demands for the utmost deference. In their minds, a support board meant they got to rag on the church day in and day out and be supported in doing it. You can’t get enough supporters to take that kind of time when there is no resolution or respect for their time as it became more than apparent this group only wanted to argue. They treated the place just like this message board. It was a great idea but a huge failure. Like JKWilliams said, you made an incorrect assumption but it's not a big deal. To me, there was only one "old FAIR message board". I didn't know anything else. But my description is accurate, it was a an old FAIR message board. However, I find it ironic that you attacked me while trying to defend the congenial honor of FAIR. Just like you attacked based on incorrect assumptions about my post, you also attack people who came to the support board for support, based on your incorrect assumptions. You think you know what was "in their minds" and its possible other FAIR members made similar assumptions. That could explain the hostility I faced there. I remember Hope For Things. There were many great discussions there. I posted under my own name at the time until a friend who was a member of FAIR told me some of the FAIR members planned to identify me to my priesthood leaders. The board started out great. There were some really good mentors but then I think the fear and righteous indignation of many FAIR members took over to the point that they attacked those of us there who legitimately came to the board seeking support. IMO those attacks helped to push more people away than it helped to renew their faith. So I agree with you that it ended up being a huge failure. FTR- I'm not "creating atrocity tales". I'm simply sharing my experience from my first participation on any message board. Of course there is no way to go back and check for "patterns" of bad behavior from FM people because FM people took the site down. There wasn't any warning as I recall. There wasn't any explanation. It was just gone one day. 1
Tacenda Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 12 hours ago, Calm said: Reel posted on it. He might have been involved with the first version of it (three months or less one). My memory is by the time the second version was out, he was out of FM, but .I could be wrong. I remember posting on it as well, didn't last very long.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, juliann said: Hmm. Sure, it’s my fault for taking him at his word. How silly of me to not know the “old FAIR message board” was code for the totally different FairMormon Support board. And he is creating atrocity tales. As Nevo said, there was no pattern of bad behavior from FM people. I didn’t participate much but my recollection was that it was dominated by a few critics who demanded to criticize Mormonism nonstop. They relentlessly supervised responses and were outraged if any response didn’t meet their demands for the utmost deference. In their minds, a support board meant they got to rag on the church day in and day out and be supported in doing it. You can’t get enough supporters to take that kind of time when there is no resolution or respect for their time as it became more than apparent this group only wanted to argue. They treated the place just like this message board. It was a great idea but a huge failure. I’m not sure how great of an idea it was, and I might have predicted its failure. The scriptures speak of those who are ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Similarly, regarding “faith crises,” it seems there are those who are ever complaining but never able to come to a resolution of their issues. Edited August 16, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 2
juliann Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: Like JKWilliams said, you made an incorrect assumption but it's not a big deal. To me, there was only one "old FAIR message board". I didn't know anything else. But my description is accurate, it was a an old FAIR message board. It doesn't matter what it was to you, if you make assertions about the fire department, don't expect people to know you were really talking about the police department. Geez Louise, you can't even admit that I was talking about the thing you labeled? It was not an old FAIR message board. Seriously? You are going to keep this up? It wasn't FAIR. It wasn't a "message board" aside from the softward, and was never called one. Except by you, apparently.
Gray Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 Safe? Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on the person. I don't think there's really a way to tell beforehand.
jkwilliams Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: FTR- I'm not "creating atrocity tales". I'm simply sharing my experience from my first participation on any message board. Of course there is no way to go back and check for "patterns" of bad behavior from FM people because FM people took the site down. There wasn't any warning as I recall. There wasn't any explanation. It was just gone one day. FWIW, Juliann is using "atrocity tale" as it is defined in literature about "apostates" from new religious movements: Quote Atrocity tale is a concept developed by Bromley, Shupe, and Ventimiglia (1979) which refers to events that flagrantly violate some fundamental cultural value and which evoke moral outrage to the extent that social control actions against the group perpretrating the event are warranted. . . Accounts are functional for those proposing them, and they can have a major self-serving element (Scott and Lyman1968). Apostates’’ accounts also may serve the interests of those trying to discredit such groups, and thus such defectors can achieve a position of prominence with organizations opposed to certain religious groups (Richardson, van der Lans, and Derks 1986). James T. Richardson, ““Apostates, Whistleblowers, Law, and Social Control in The Politics of Religious Apostasy: The Role of Apostates in the Transformation of Religious Movements, ed. David G. Bromley (Westport, CT: Praeger Publishers, 1998), 173. I'll leave it to you to decide if that description applies to your post about the FairMormon support board.
cinepro Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 8:34 PM, The Nehor said: I am of the opinion that Kenobi should have been a bit more honest in his conversations and should have just told him his father was a child-killing mass murderer and that Kenobi had chopped off all his limbs and left him to burn alive. But yeah, your father wanted you to have this....... You mean like this...? 1
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