Deseret News: Moral Judgement is not Sufficient to Diagnose Porn Addiction

[cinepro]

The Deseret News recently posted this interesting article about changing views towards "sex addiction" and "porn addiction" in the mental health field, including a recognition on how religiosity can influence the propensity for someone to diagnose themselves as being "addicted":

If you view pornography a lot, does that make you an addict?

 

Quote

Because of this, the ICD-11 working group deliberately included a final caveat in the new diagnosis: "Distress that is entirely related to moral judgments and disapproval about sexual impulses, urges, or behaviours is not sufficient to meet this requirement."

That means that someone's wife, parent or pastor cannot demand a professional diagnosis just because they disagree with or disapprove of the behavior.

The Church has obviously mirrored traditional society in its views on pornography over the last 100 years, but society's views have been changing a bit in the age of the internet.  It will be interesting to see how things continue to adapt and change in oncoming decades...

Edited July 26, 2018 by cinepro

[Thinking]

I'm a sex addict. I like having sex with my wife as often as possible.

[SouthernMo]

I attend sex addiction meetings - both LDS and secular. Sometimes, I see people who are sent to the meetings by well-intentioned bishops because they have a porn problem.

Problems (like porn use), come in wide spectrums, and we need to be careful about judging and diagnosing - especially those who aren’t trained to use DSM 5.

Put differently, while I am very, very happy the church is investing time and money into addiction services, when it comes to Porn/sex addiction, there is still a general tendency to view it as a moral challenge, rather than a (mental?) health challenge.

The distinction is important because it affects how one approaches and treats the problem.

[The Nehor]

Someone can have moral problems with something without it being a clinical addiction. I hate getting up at 5:15 AM on Sundays for church meetings but I do not think this qualifies as sleep addiction.

[hope_for_things]

It’s encouraging to read this in the DNews. It reminds me of a BYU study that was published in recent years on the topic.  The influence of religious stigma towards certain behaviors can be a significant contributing factor.  

[Duncan]

i've often wondered what the difference is between a bad habit and addiction

[rongo]

19 minutes ago, Duncan said:

i've often wondered what the difference is between a bad habit and addiction

An addiction is a *really* bad habit. 

If your nose-picking disrupts your life, and you lose your job and marriage over it, it was an addiction. Otherwise, it's just something people see you do at red lights.  

[Duncan]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

An addiction is a *really* bad habit. 

If your nose-picking disrupts your life, and you lose your job and marriage over it, it was an addiction. Otherwise, it's just something people see you do at red lights.  

 

[juliann]

I'm more prone to listen to the spouses and families of porn users. The behaviors destroy marriages no matter what you call it. From accounts I have heard, I can't really see how changing a label will change the reality of how committed porn users behave or think. 

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, juliann said:

I'm more prone to listen to the spouses and families of porn users. The behaviors destroy marriages no matter what you call it. From accounts I have heard, I can't really see how changing a label will change the reality of how committed porn users behave or think. 

It matters to people who want to quit hurting their spouses and families. What matters is the best way to help someone overcome this, and from what I understand, the addiction model is not helpful. I know some people disagree. 

[CA Steve]

37 minutes ago, rongo said:

An addiction is a *really* bad habit. 

If your nose-picking disrupts your life, and you lose your job and marriage over it, it was an addiction. Otherwise, it's just something people see you do at red lights.  

That sounds good in theory but in practice I don't know. 

My mom called me one day, frantic about my  brother. She solemnly told me that she thought he had an addiction problem and that we needed to have a family intervention with him. Knowing my brother, I was a bit puzzled by this and asked her how she knew he had a problem. She replied:

"Because I can smell coffee on his breath."

In our church we tend to add immorality to behavior that the rest of the world sees as normal and then label it as an addiction. If my marriage failed because I insisted in drinking a cup of coffee it wouldn't be because I had an addiction, it would be because of marital communication issues that ran much deeper.

Edited July 26, 2018 by CA Steve

[SouthernMo]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

i've often wondered what the difference is between a bad habit and addiction

Having attended a lot of addiction recovery and ‘A’ meetings, I’ve heard a lot of definitions.  The best I’ve heard (while it’s certainly not clinical) is:

“If you’ve tried to stop something by yourself, and can’t, why not ask for help?”

But, a better delineation between the two has been explained to me is that an addiction will negatively affect the relationships in your life while a bad habit will not.

Again, not clinical, but those thoughts have helped me. 

[SouthernMo]

39 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It matters to people who want to quit hurting their spouses and families. What matters is the best way to help someone overcome this, and from what I understand, the addiction model is not helpful. I know some people disagree. 

This efficacy of 12 step programs has been studied for years - especially among alcoholics. The overall results aren’t conclusive.  The program helps some, and some it does not.

BUT... They work for me. I’d encourage any addict to give it a try. If it helps, great. If not, move on and try another tool.

[Calm]

"bad habit will not"....

Yeah, unless one wants to expand what can be classified as addictions, I wouldn't go with that one.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

An addiction is a *really* bad habit. 

If your nose-picking disrupts your life, and you lose your job and marriage over it, it was an addiction. Otherwise, it's just something people see you do at red lights.  

I KNEW you were stalking me!!

[Glenn101]

3 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

But, a better delineation between the two has been explained to me is that an addiction will negatively affect the relationships in your life while a bad habit will not.

Maybe some bad habits will not affect relationships, but there are some that will. Gossiping is one of them. (Of course it will be next on the addiction list.)  I am curious if this is going to become a trend treating anything that a person likes to do so much that he or she refuses to stop as an addiction.

Glenn

[SouthernMo]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

Maybe some bad habits will not affect relationships, but there are some that will. Gossiping is one of them. (Of course it will be next on the addiction list.)  I am curious if this is going to become a trend treating anything that a person likes to do so much that he or she refuses to stop as an addiction.

Glenn

It seems you might have doubts that addiction is a real disease. Am I mistaken?

[RevTestament]

8 hours ago, cinepro said:

The Deseret News recently posted this interesting article about changing views towards "sex addiction" and "porn addiction" in the mental health field, including a recognition on how religiosity can influence the propensity for someone to diagnose themselves as being "addicted":

If you view pornography a lot, does that make you an addict?

 

The Church has obviously mirrored traditional society in its views on pornography over the last 100 years, but society's views have been changing a bit in the age of the internet.  It will be interesting to see how things continue to adapt and change in oncoming decades...

Isaiah 3:

16 ¶ Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of theirtinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

21 The rings, and nose jewels,

22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,

23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils.

24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she beingdesolate shall sit upon the ground.

Isaiah 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, evenevery one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

[Robert F. Smith]

7 hours ago, rongo said:

An addiction is a *really* bad habit. 

If your nose-picking disrupts your life, and you lose your job and marriage over it, it was an addiction. Otherwise, it's just something people see you do at red lights.  

I had a really bad habit of chewing my fingernails during my entire youth.  My mother tried painting my fingernails with some awful tasting stuff, but that didn't stop me.  So was I an "addict"?

There was a cure:  At age 17, I enlisted in the USMC.  Several weeks later, I had to purchase fingernail clippers at the base store (MCRD, San Diego), and had to clip my nails for the first time in my life.  I still find the simple nature of the cure astonishing:  My focus on keeping my Drill Instructor happy and learning how to be a good Marine made all the difference.  I never even had to try to stop chewing my nails.  I was too busy with more important pursuits.  Is that a good way to overcome any addiction?

[cinepro]

7 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

But, a better delineation between the two has been explained to me is that an addiction will negatively affect the relationships in your life while a bad habit will not.

 

I think that's the point of the article and other recent thoughts on "Porn addiction."

If the Church constantly told us that biting your fingernails was morally corrupt, and that people who bite their fingernails are being unfaithful to their spouses (because instead of eating their spouse's cooking they're eating their own fingernails), then people who find their spouse chewing their fingernails might find that it negatively affects their relationship because of what they've been taught about the habit.

I'm not suggesting looking at pornography is totally benign, but part of the solution to the problem might be to calibrate the response to the problem in a more measured fashion.

[SouthernMo]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

I think that's the point of the article and other recent thoughts on "Porn addiction."

If the Church constantly told us that biting your fingernails was morally corrupt, and that people who bite their fingernails are being unfaithful to their spouses (because instead of eating their spouse's cooking they're eating their own fingernails), then people who find their spouse chewing their fingernails might find that it negatively affects their relationship because of what they've been taught about the habit.

I'm not suggesting looking at pornography is totally benign, but part of the solution to the problem might be to calibrate the response to the problem in a more measured fashion.

This is a good point. I think that we LDS would do well to understand pornography like we do alcohol. Is there pleasure that comes from both activities?  Yes. Does alcohol always harm relationships?  No. Does porn always harm relationships?  No.  Is there the potential for addiction and harm?  Yes. 

Mormon teaching only prohibits both. 

[SouthernMo]

5 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I had a really bad habit of chewing my fingernails during my entire youth.  My mother tried painting my fingernails with some awful tasting stuff, but that didn't stop me.  So was I an "addict"?

There was a cure:  At age 17, I enlisted in the USMC.  Several weeks later, I had to purchase fingernail clippers at the base store (MCRD, San Diego), and had to clip my nails for the first time in my life.  I still find the simple nature of the cure astonishing:  My focus on keeping my Drill Instructor happy and learning how to be a good Marine made all the difference.  I never even had to try to stop chewing my nails.  I was too busy with more important pursuits.  Is that a good way to overcome any addiction?

Yes - having dealt with addiction for years, the mantra “just stop doing it” is largely ineffective for most. To stop doing something, we need to fill that time or activity with something else. We need healthy distractions.

Those in 12-step programs will call these “top line” or “outer circle” activities.

[Glenn101]

7 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

It seems you might have doubts that addiction is a real disease. Am I mistaken?

No, I do not have doubts that an addiction is a type of disease, even though many such are self inflicted.

Glenn

[SouthernMo]

10 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

No, I do not have doubts that an addiction is a type of disease, even though many such are self inflicted.

Glenn

Yes and no. Addiction, like many diseases arises from a combination of environmental factors and personal choices. Addicts typically turn to the drug of pleasure to medicate problems. What causes those problems in the individual is worth exploring and understanding.

Too often, those who don’t deal with addiction misunderstand and blame the addict (which is only partially true), which does not help the addict heal.

[USU78]

Addiction is about pain, not sexual gratification or drug highs.

Addressing control of the behavior, without addressing the underlying pain, will inevitably fail in its aim.