Should BYU Drop its Football Program?

[smac97]

6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I totally agree, I'm not personally fan of those sports really.  I imagine hockey might have a component of hard impacts too.  

I'm not a fan of hockey, either.  It glorifies/justifies brawling.  Athletic competition is one thing.  Having referees stand by while two hockely players pummel each other is not, in my view, sportsmanship.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JAHS]

I don't know. The Lavell Edwards name on the stadium just wouldn't seem right without football in it. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

I think there are a lot of football fans in leadership too.  Its really a popular sport in America.  I worry that future generations will look back at us and wonder how crazy we were as a society to have a sport like this.  Through a future lens football may seem quite barbaric.  

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Usually the football program brings in a lot of money that can't easily be replaced.  Is that true of BYU as well?  Do they rely on their football program for money and standing in the university community (standing helps bring in students, for example, so having a reputation as a school of good repute can't be discounted).

I don't watch college football (and barely watch professional, though not at all this year because of the politics that have been involved) so I don't have a dog in the fight.  I won't let my kids play tackle football though, only flag.  Not only is tackle football dangerous, but the city teams are insane for the resources they use up.  It costs $200 to play for the season, they require daily practices (where kids often get concussions) and you have to be available all day every saturday for games, traveling out of town at your own cost sometimes, for months at a time.  That's more of a family sacrifice than it's worth in my opinion.

Plus, the parents and coaches at flag football are sometimes more than I can take.  I can't imagine it at a higher level.  I envision a lot of adults being really embarrassing.

You are correct, Football is by far the biggest revenue produced, but its also the most expensive to operate.  

Just football tickets produced 20%, and the TV & Radio 7% is also driven by football, and the donations and endowments are likely tied to football as well. 

[hope_for_things]

6 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I'm not a fan of hockey, either.  It glorifies/justifies brawling.  Athletic competition is one thing.  Having referees stand by while two hockely players pummel each other is not, in my view, sportsmanship.

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't like the fighting either, and I wasn't raised on hockey, but I attended my first NHL game a couple years ago and it was an exciting atmosphere, so I can at least see the appeal a little more now.  

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I'm not a fan of hockey, either.  It glorifies/justifies brawling.  Athletic competition is one thing.  Having referees stand by while two hockely players pummel each other is not, in my view, sportsmanship.

Thanks,

-Smac

Hubby and I went to a game in Ogden last week and were pleasantly surprised.  There were very few fouls (about 1-2 a period) and when a scuffle started it was always immediately stopped.  I've never seen a professional game though.  

[Bob Crockett]

Absolutely -- football should not be part of an high school or college program.   I had never played the game.  I was big enough and fast enough but my father had died and there was no parental encouragement.  My father played football and was an NCAA tennis player.

I run up to 50 miles a week.  When my friends, my age, tell me they wish they could run but their knees won't let them, I always ask if they played football.  The answer is always the same.

I was an assistant coach on my son's middle-school age football team.  I was the receivers' coach and conditioning coach.   But I felt really guilty about the fact that a successful practice day was considered one without a season-ending injury.

Let me describe the hitting drill, in full pads.    Two linemen would stand about a foot apart.   Every boy, from the smallest to the largest, had to get through the slot between them.  I really believed that if it weren't for football, any adult putting a middle school kid through that drill ought to be arrested.  

A boy died in the league during a hitting drill.  I was outraged when the coaches explained to me that he had a propensity for a broken neck.  After I vented, they looked at me smugly and said, "what are you going to do?"

My  son had a horrific broken leg, a spiral fracture up and down his leg, through his growth plates, during a practice and went back to playing football after he healed.  If it weren't for football, the cops would have arrested anybody who put him through the drill where he broke his leg.

When Ed Cunningham, the ESPN color guy who recently quit his job over the risk of injuries to college kids, my mind was made up and I stopped watching football.

Hockey is simply not any kind of comparison.  Body checking is not or rarely allowed.   It isn't a question about fights.  Fights occur in tennis matches, basketball games, and golf.  It is a question about a sport which requires hitting, the harder the better. I cringe when I watch my son's lacrosse games, but there the only body checking allowed is against the kid with the ball.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Bob Crockett

[CA Steve]

34 minutes ago, smac97 said:

More to the point, how much injury is acceptable in sports which are sponsored and subsidized by the LDS Church?

Thanks,

-Smac  

It's always about the money and where it comes from and who profits off of it.

 

My personal opinion is that it, as well as any other sport that contributes to CTE, need to stop or change so they no longer run the risks of that disease. Yes I know all sports activities carries risks, but when they tested the brains  of 100 deceased exNFL players, over 90 of those brains exhibited signs of CTE. That combined with the fact this disease robs people of their mental capacity as well as causing physical damage makes it far worse than what any other type of sports can do and does it on this consistent basis.  It kills people, what other common sports injury does that? Additionally most serious sports injuries are the result of something unexpected happening during the activity like the players moving or acting in unexpected ways.  In football as well as boxing and MME, this injury is caused by doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing, ie. hitting the other guy.

 

When will schools stop promoting these sports? At all levels, it will happen when revenue is exceeded by costs. So, since BYU makes lots of money on football it will continue, but as soon as an athlete or their family can prove that he/she suffered physical and or mental damage while engaged in a profitable activity at a university (not just BYU) we are going to see big changes quickly. When those floodgates open, and they will, educational institutions of all levels across the county are going to quickly reassess the need for certain sports actions.

 

If they figure out a way to test for CTE other than posthumously, I think it will end football right then. 

 

I used to love football and boxing, and while I am still a fan or and still watch football, I cannot help but cringe every time I see someone's head take a direct hit. I am glad none of my kids played. I think Costas has it right, football may not be around too much longer.

 

 

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

I am likewise a bit put off by the "celebrity" aspect of football (though it happens in other sports as well, so...).

Thanks,

-Smac

Yeah...it is everywhere...a shame too because their talents can speak volumes without all the advertising.  There is some good people though that use their celebrity status to help kids and schools in their hometowns.

[Jeanne]

My son really wanted to play football...it was kind of sad as he could play basketball with some care..but an injury in the head (hit the back of boat on a bike when he was 7)...did not leave him with any option to play regular football.  Get this....the doctor told us years ago...no football and...no trampoline!  Trampolines run a big 3 in hospital injuries to the head...

[Duncan]

Should BYU drop it's football program? No pun intended, right?!

As others have noted and as die hard hockey fan, i'd say go with that. It's MUCH faster and better to watch on TV and in person. Football is nice but it's SO SLOW like baseball, it's like a 4 hour commitment to see a game. As with all sports careers, it's short but lucrative. The big injuries are knee problems-that's what got the great Bobby Orr out. Fighting exists but honestly it's exaggerated, yeah you had the "Broadstreet Bullies" of the Flyers in the '70's but Bobby Clarke got dentures now so you can't even see it anymore and every team has it's enforcers protecting the scorer's but it's not too common to see players duking it out hardcore. There was a guy years ago who wanted a hockey league like that where it's focus was on fighting and it just never really got off the ground. Besides of which Hockey is so famous even Satan played it!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Šatan

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Duncan

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Hubby and I went to a game in Ogden last week and were pleasantly surprised.  There were very few fouls (about 1-2 a period) and when a scuffle started it was always immediately stopped.  I've never seen a professional game though.  

they are called penalties

[Jeanne]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Should BYU drop it's football program? No pun intended, right?!

As others have noted and as die hard hockey fan, i'd say go with that. It's MUCH faster and better to watch on TV and in person. Football is nice but it's SO SLOW like baseball, it's like a 4 hour commitment to see a game. As with all sports careers, it's short but lucrative. The big injuries are knee problems-that's what got the great Bobby Orr out. Fighting exists but honestly it's exaggerated, yeah you had the "Broadstreet Bullies" of the Flyers in the '70's but Bobby Clarke got dentures now so you can't even see it anymore and every team has it's enforcers protecting the scorer's but it's not too common to see players duking it out hardcore. There was a guy years ago who wanted a hockey league like that where it's focus was on fighting and it just never really got off the ground. Besides of which Hockey is so famous even Satan played it!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Šatan

 

 

I have been to some hockey games in SLC...yeah...they are fun to watch and I really liked Arena Football...I still miss the Utah Blaze!!

[changed]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

You are correct, Football is by far the biggest revenue produced, but its also the most expensive to operate.  

Just football tickets produced 20%, and the TV & Radio 7% is also driven by football, and the donations and endowments are likely tied to football as well. 

So, what other activity could fill the stadiums, and produce ticket revenues?  Could be played on the radio?  ... who was that band, Imagin Dragons?  Wasn't there some sort of a recent music festival of sorts?  ... why not hand out music scholarships instead of football scholarships?  Music has the ability to make money and fill stadiums too... Just dreaming, I know.

[Calm]

 

A lawsuit or four (more because of it being deeply entrenched) might discourage it quickly, bringing more attention.  My grandson is well built for football, but I have a feeling will not be going into it.  He and his dad are focusing on karate.

What is the comparison of likely damage between football and boxing?

And no, I don't think BYU should be sponsoring it.

[hope_for_things]

30 minutes ago, changed said:

So, what other activity could fill the stadiums, and produce ticket revenues?  Could be played on the radio?  ... who was that band, Imagin Dragons?  Wasn't there some sort of a recent music festival of sorts?  ... why not hand out music scholarships instead of football scholarships?  Music has the ability to make money and fill stadiums too... Just dreaming, I know.

Love music, and yes there was the LoveLoud festival headlined by the Imagine Dragons in Orem.  It was great, I was there.  There will always be music, and I can hope for more, but competition and sports is a large interest in society too.  I enjoy both personally.  There really isn't another sport that exists today with as much interest as football.  I imagine that will change in the future, and something more popular will emerge.  

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

There are so many sports that are less prone to cause head injuries.  Boxing (including MMA?) and football, on the other hand, seem to be the worst.  BYU, however, only has a football program.

Thanks,

-Smac

I was in the Judo Club as an undergraduate at BYU, and the constant impact of being thrown onto a mat has a cumulative effect on bones and joints -- such that major arthritic problems crop up later.  Here is the comment of one experienced judo master:

Quote

After years of dedication to judo it gave me a black belt (first dan) and unparalleled skills at taking anyone down. 

It also gave me:
1) Osteoartheritis on all my fingers from GI gripping
2) Pinched nerve in my neck
3) Bad lower back from not wanting to fall on my back and lose by Ippon.
4) Destroyed cartilage in my knees because of some throwing techniques like uchimata

That sport is probably the most tough on the joints ever, and to be competing in it will add 60 years to your body. My brother retired from judo at 29. TWENTY NINE! He walks like yoda because of hip surgery. The nature of the sport is geared to demolish you like no other if you want to stay serious in Judo.  http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/judo-will-cripple-you.389689/ .

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

You are correct, Football is by far the biggest revenue produced, but its also the most expensive to operate.  

Just football tickets produced 20%, and the TV & Radio 7% is also driven by football, and the donations and endowments are likely tied to football as well. 

Percentages are interesting, but what are the totals?

[hope_for_things]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Percentages are interesting, but what are the totals?

I don't think they officially release the totals numbers, they aren't required to as a private institution.  Apparently 2015 revenue was approximately $62M, and I've read some speculation that they are getting into the $70M - $80M range most recently. 

https://lawlessrepublic.com/2017/09/21/byu-football-espn-contract-money/

 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Certainly so. Who forces them to play?

There is an irony there about the US thinking that 20 year olds are not responsible enough to buy alcohol but we trust them to make decisions in which they are likely turning their brains into mush.

[strappinglad]

I know it is heresy , but seeing that the Church is a worldwide church, it might be forward thinking to focus on what the rest of the world calls " football " ie. soccer. Fewer head injuries, huge crowds, ruffian fans, the whole enchilada !! At least BYU would have a built in advantage with all the Latin members.

[2BizE]

This has probably already been stated, but the Football program generates most of the income for the other sports.  Drop football, and baseball, volleyball, gymnastics, and ballroom dancing would not survive.

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

This has probably already been stated, but the Football program generates most of the income for the other sports.  Drop football, and baseball, volleyball, gymnastics, and ballroom dancing would not survive.

And then schools could focus on academics? What is the downside here?

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

And then schools could focus on academics? What is the downside here?

Life is not all about academics though.  

[Jeanne]

In any case...tonight I will be routing for the blue and white..(I don't do this often) but I hope BYU has a good game and wins against UNLV.