Should BYU Drop its Football Program?

[Darren10]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:16 PM, The Nehor said:

No, but I think a University should mostly be about it.

Athletics should be less a pursuit of competition and more a general interest of humanity. Sometimes I think too much of our athletic pursuits are something we watch as opposed to something we do.

Then again I find most sporting events leave me bored. I admit I sometimes envy those who can enjoy passionately rooting for a team. I am probably missing something. Then again I do not envy the people who seem to get depressed or angry when their team loses.

My default response to obnoxious fans is mentally at least more like this at the moment:

 

And that’s one of the greatest things sbout sports: learn to accept loosing. This includes complementing your opponent for his/her/ their victory and moving on with your own self in life. The vast majority of sports fans I have encountered, including the many Uber rides I provide to and from sporting events, understsnd this and put it into practice.  

[Darren10]

On 11/10/2017 at 1:22 PM, bluebell said:

I think some of this, when looked it from a spiritual perspective, becomes an issue of how does God feel about us needlessly risking our lives or cutting them short because of risky decisions, who's only payout is self-centered?

Do we have a responsibility to mitigate the amount of self-serving risk there is in our lives, especially if we have a spouse or children?

Thay deoends. On LDS missions, there are many rules and regs to adhire to in part to keep the missionaries safe. During that 1 1/2 - 2 years, the LDS Church most definitely want to keep their missionaries alive and well so thag they can go out and serve. Before and after the mission is a time to “make a living” and thay includes lots of risks. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

On 11/10/2017 at 1:39 PM, smac97 said:

More to the point, how much injury is acceptable in sports which are sponsored and subsidized by the LDS Church?

Thanks,

-Smac  

Hopefully all so far as they adhire to the socially accepted decisions to keep the, safe. 

[Darren10]

On 11/10/2017 at 1:49 PM, hope_for_things said:

I don't like the fighting either, and I wasn't raised on hockey, but I attended my first NHL game a couple years ago and it was an exciting atmosphere, so I can at least see the appeal a little more now.  

I attended my first and to this day only professional hokey game when we took our 5th graders to the Houston Aeros one year. The majority of our boys were far more interested in the cheerleaders wearing really skimpy outfits than in the actual game but I liked the overall atmosphere. It was enjoyable.

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Are we saying my dentist friend was remiss in his duties by going over the cliff in his snowmobile and leaving his family and bishop status behind? We all make choices without foreseeing the end result, such as my friend who fell asleep at the wheel trying to drive through the night to make it to a family activity. 

But most adults are capable of seeing around corners, as the saying goes.  We can't know exactly what's going to happen when we choose to do something, but we can know the probability of a bad outcome when we make certain choices.  We can also know whether or not the risk of a bad outcome is worth the cost.

I'm not talking about policing anyone else, i'm talking about doing a personal inventory and trying to figure out how carefully God expects us to treat our lives, when the risk is self serving. I don't think He expects us to never take self serving risks, but neither do I think that He condones all self serving risks.

[Tacenda]

On 11/10/2017 at 10:02 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

The propensity of football to cause brain damage might help explain the recent silly fad among NFL players to "take a knee" while the National Anthem is played.

I believe that there is a need to take a knee, but glad they're finding better times to do it besides during the anthem. 

But back to the subject, I am amazed at the parents surrounding me that get so excited for their sons to play football. 

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, Teancum said:

Football is big money for colleges.  Accordingly even at BYU, you will never see it go away.

Tastes and cultural fads change. In the 40s and 50s who would have thought baseball would fade into relative obscurity?

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Darren10 said:

And that’s one of the greatest things sbout sports: learn to accept loosing. This includes complementing your opponent for his/her/ their victory and moving on with your own self in life. The vast majority of sports fans I have encountered, including the many Uber rides I provide to and from sporting events, understsnd this and put it into practice.  

I have met European soccer hooligans. My experience is different.

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Thay deoends. On LDS missions, there are many rules and regs to adhire to in part to keep the missionaries safe. During that 1 1/2 - 2 years, the LDS Church most definitely want to keep their missionaries alive and well so thag they can go out and serve. Before and after the mission is a time to “make a living” and thay includes lots of risks. 

I was in more potential physical danger on my mission than any extended time before or after.

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I was in more potential physical danger on my mission than any extended time before or after.

I know two prop,e who served in Bulgaria. They both have having to deal with the mafia stories. On my mission one time the Assistants to the President were pulled over and at gun point robbed if all the money they had to deposit to the bank. I miyself got kicked in the face on the bus once. But I assume you kept the rules. That keeps missionaries quite safe. 

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have met European soccer hooligans. My experience is different.

Let’s ban soccer at BYU and all of its jingoism. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Let’s ban soccer at BYU and all of its jingoism. 

I think we need more soccer in the US.

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

I know two prop,e who served in Bulgaria. They both have having to deal with the mafia stories. On my mission one time the Assistants to the President were pulled over and at gun point robbed if all the money they had to deposit to the bank. I miyself got kicked in the face on the bus once. But I assume you kept the rules. That keeps missionaries quite safe. 

Obedience usually enables the receipt of blessings but it does not ensure physical safety. 

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I think we need more soccer in the US.

Obedience usually enables the receipt of blessings but it does not ensure physical safety. 

Ditto on the need for more soccer. Football too if the players stop protesting on the field. 

Until one is resurrected, there is no guarantee for physical safety, only caution. 

[cdowis]

On 11/10/2017 at 12:57 PM, The Nehor said:

I am more worried about the mental health of those who treat a small symbolic gesture towards a non-offensive cause as a personal affront.

This is a very long sentence that basically says, "I don't get it."

I do get it.  Just curious, how do you feel about burning the American flag.  Istis also a "small symbolic gesture"?

[cinepro]

On 11/10/2017 at 10:28 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Almost all sports have innate risk of injury. Should we abandon them all? I dislocated my knee playing flag football at BYU which 50 years later resulted in knee replacement surgery.

The important point for me is that most sports involve a risk of injury if something goes wrong.  If a player gets hurt in soccer, it's because either they did something wrong, or another player did something wrong to them.  The same for most other sports.  Yes, accidents happen, but players are trying to avoid injury (and if they don't try to avoid injuring other players, they get penalized).

But for football, the research seems to suggest that these injuries from concussions occur from the game being played correctly.  Meaning, it is an inherent part of the game, not an inherent risk.   They've taken more steps to try and mitigate the obvious risks (like helmet-to-helmet contact), but if a 200lb linebacker is running at full speed and gets smashed by a 300lb lineman and hits the ground, the lineman didn't do anything wrong, and the linebacker is at immense risk for concussion.

[USU78]

18 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Explain......?

Guess who the ppresident was who oversaw the cancellation if Rick's College's sports program's.

[LittleNipper]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:50 AM, smac97 said:

I wonder if BYU should consider dropping its football program.  I am aware that it has a deep and strong and rich heritage and tradition, but football seems to be too dangerous a sport.  Consider, e.g., this (emphases added):

What do you think?  Is sponsoring football a good idea for the Church, given the potential (and actual) injuries involved?  There are other factors as well (tickets have become crazy expensive, etc.).

Thanks,

-Smac

They only play baseball in heaven ---- they even have angels in the outfield!

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, USU78 said:

Guess who the ppresident was who oversaw the cancellation if Rick's College's sports program's.

Ahhh! Of course! I had forgotten.

[Bernard Gui]

 

4 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Ditto on the need for more soccer. 

I just cannot get into soccer. Same with cricket, curling, and lawn bowling. We fought and won a revolution so we wouldn’t have to play those games. Like watching a stranger’s toenails grow. Plus you play all that time with no score and then someone wins on a “shootout” between two players. Something very, very wrong about that.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[strappinglad]

Well, there is always the Mayan " ball game " . Rough sport and the fans were really seriously committed to their team. A loss was actually  a loss of something up to and including one's life.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, cdowis said:

This is a very long sentence that basically says, "I don't get it."

I do get it.  Just curious, how do you feel about burning the American flag.  Istis also a "small symbolic gesture"?

I find burning the US flag to be a repulsive gesture that I believe should be protected by free speech though I find it personally repulsive.

I find it almost as repulsive that you equate a protest against violence and inequality as an act equivalent to burning the flag. There is a poignant irony that those who gained under the slogan of claiming a nation must be made “great again” sparking outrage over their opponents also saying America must improve and casting this strong but inoffensive stance as a form of treason. Even more sad is how many pathetic saps fall for this pathetic outrage mongering.

No offense.

[cdowis]

32 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Quote

I am more worried about the mental health of those who treat a small symbolic gesture towards a non-offensive cause as a personal affront.

I find burning the US flag to be a repulsive gesture that I believe should be protected by free speech though I find it personally repulsive.

I find it almost as repulsive that you equate a protest against violence and inequality as an act equivalent to burning the flag.

Are you also concerned about the "mental health" of those who oppose flag burning?   In both cases it is showing disrespect for the flag and for the sacrifice of those who died to preserve our freedoms.

You just don't get it, do you.

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, cdowis said:

Are you also concerned about the "mental health" of those who oppose flag burning?   In both cases it is showing disrespect for the flag and for the sacrifice of those who died to preserve our freedoms.

You just don't get it, do you.

The idea that this symbol of protest is primarily aimed at dead military personnel is “fake news” by and for those who love to complain about “fake news”.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, cinepro said:

The important point for me is that most sports involve a risk of injury if something goes wrong.  If a player gets hurt in soccer, it's because either they did something wrong, or another player did something wrong to them.  The same for most other sports.  Yes, accidents happen, but players are trying to avoid injury (and if they don't try to avoid injuring other players, they get penalized).

But for football, the research seems to suggest that these injuries from concussions occur from the game being played correctly.  Meaning, it is an inherent part of the game, not an inherent risk.   They've taken more steps to try and mitigate the obvious risks (like helmet-to-helmet contact), but if a 200lb linebacker is running at full speed and gets smashed by a 300lb lineman and hits the ground, the lineman didn't do anything wrong, and the linebacker is at immense risk for concussion.

Yeah, pretty much this.

[Calm]

The problem is that up till now there wasn't the kind of evidence for harm. And it may take sometime for people to take seriously.  When you are talking brain damage for what 90%? participants, that is a huge long term loss of quality of life that didn't need to happen.