Prayer Request from Houston Temple Presidency

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

What about short term?

Bad. Temples do not have a lot of windows. This has a negative psychological effect in a crisis and is also a safety issue. If people seek refuge in the higher levels there are no good escape routes if a boat rescue arrives. Will the rescuers even be able to tell if anyone is in there? Temples are also well built meaning it is hard to bust a way out if needed compared to a residence.

Edited August 29, 2017 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, cinepro said:

 

That would seem to make sense, since apparently Joel Osteen's church in Houston didn't get flooded and tons of people go there.  So you may be on to something.

No worries, we have plenty of time left for it to flood too.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Thanks so very much for your reply. I don't wish to argue either. I wish to understand. Sometimes the best way to understand is to share one's beliefs as a way to see both differences and agreements; all this in an atmosphere and attitude that honors our heavenly father. Quite frankly, I am around Mormons every day - including a good part of most Sundays. I live in the midst (well, almost) of one of the most special Mormon places in the world (just ask them, hah!) the Mormon colonies of Mexico. I know bishops, stake presidents, LDS scholars, BYU profs., and yes two general authorities. 

What I am seeking to learn is this "No kidding, what do Mormons really believe?" or more specifically, "What do Mormons believe about non-Mormon believers in Christ?" Please believe me, I have learned this is almost a question without an answer. I have hundreds of Mormon books in my library (not one by an anti--Mormon, by the way). I have seen LDS doctrine morph and change from 1830 to 2017. I spend hours every day searching and reading.  Please don't tell me to talk to a Mormon missionary to get the straight scoop. They know their six lessons; that is about it. The last one who I tried to ask questions to here in my home was from Utah. He apologized but said he could only give the lessons in Spanish because that was all he was taught. Huh? They have little or no depth in Mormon history and doctrine. Please, I mean no offense in that. I know many of you served a mission and/or have kids or grandkids that are currently doing so. I served a mission myself at 20 years of age. That is simply my experience. When I ask them to explain no kidding, how the great apostasy worked, they blank out. That is important to me because it negates almost two thousand years of church history including my own. Then I ask three Mormons or three Mormon bishops (no offense) the same question and I get three different answers. Reading Millet is not the same as reading McConkie which is not the same as reading Woodruff, my personal favorite LDS president. I get told about persecution! Wow, don't forget I am Mennonite. I can tell stories of persecution that will make a Saint cry and for five hundred years longer! 

I came to this forum hoping that being somewhat anonymous and speaking to a somewhat more knowledgeable audience (you all) that I might be able to get some answers, realizing that even within this august body I won't get unanimity of opinion because each of you is on your own individual and idiosyncratic spiritual journey inside and perhaps outside of Mormonism. 

I guess I am trying to understand the LDS faith well enough to understand whether we can disagree on things, but still believe the other is a Christian brother or sister, without the other needing the services of the other?  Is there really no salvation outside of LDS priesthood authority? Really? What if I believe that Christ is the only high priest between us and God? Can we still be Christian brothers. I don't need to focus on the differences; I understand all about those. I need to understand the similarities on which fellowship and worship can be based. But, that is the challenge, maybe because it is not possible, and I need to stop trying. I am a non-Mormon who wants to accept Mormons as my Christian brothers. Understanding what I know, I believe I can be true to my faith and join in prayer for healing with a Mormon brother or sister for a sick child. What I can't get the answer to is are they joining in prayer with me for that child just to be nice, thinking all the time - he has no authority, he has no power . . . they know I have knowledge. Are they calling me brother because they believe everyone on earth is their brother because of that spark of the divine in all of us, and oh, by the way, they can always baptize or endow me after I am dead, so why make a big deal about it now? For years Mormons have focused almost obsessively on how they are treated and seen by non-Mormons. Now the worm is turning. More like me want to know what you all believe about me and my faith? I can testify and take up an entire sacrament meeting on my faith and the blessings I have had, and the joy and power of my faith, but I can't do so in Joseph Smith's name. Does that disqualify me from faith? The answer depends on who I ask.  Is there really not one single Mennonite elder or bishop in the world who has the power, authority, and knowledge of the Holy Spirit in his life in its fullness? Really? 

So many questions. So few answers. If I join this board you will have a loving, kind investigator in your midst who will want to know the truth. You won't be able to practice an LDS defensiveness by saying - he is the enemy, because let me assure you, I am not your enemy. I have already seen that word used in any number of posts that I have read - that disappoints me. Let me assure you, Mormons don't have nearly as many enemies as you think. That is a holdover from Hawn's Mill or Crooked River, or in my case the Mexican revolution with all its red-flaggers. Have I mentioned I think Jacob Hawn was a Mennonite, as were all the Whitmers? Sorry, I digress. What say you, should I stay or should I go? 

Well it's difficult because you say you understand us, but really do not understand some very basic stuff.  Obviously stay!!  It is just that this is not the best board for investigators because no one wants to spend time going over the basics.  Sorry but that is my opinion- and why you have been referred to the kids.

I will take that on if you want to listen, no problem- I would be honored.  I would find it a much more valuable way to spend what time I get here than arguing with others about how wrong they are about everything.

I suppose I could give you my credentials in the church, but suffice it to say I am in a stake leadership position after being a Bishop. I am also a temple worker so I have virtually memorized all the temple ordinances.   So ta da for me, neener neener, and that is about all it is worth.  I am not a 20 year old missionary, I have been a member 38 years and are 69 years old and have held nearly every single calling possible and been in a lot of meetings and do a lot of writing and studying in the church and in secular philosophy.    But none of that matters in our church really.   Most of us here are in similar positions. All worthy men are members of the Priesthood and I have no more authority than any other.    I am just citing it to say that I do know a bit about Mormonism.  But that does not mean ANYTHING but hot air as to my relationship with God as my judge.  He sees my heart and the intentions of my heart and that is all that counts in the final analysis- so really my word is worth nothing more than anyone else who is a member.  God is no respecter of persons and looks on our hearts.  My wife still likes me, if that helps.

No we do nothing in the name of Joseph Smith.  He was a man like all of us.  I am surprised frankly that you ask that.  It doesn't fit with the rest of your story.

"Salvation" has two meanings for us though we seldom acknowledge that.  One means "getting to heaven" and for that virtually everyone will "get to heaven" which makes us kind of universalists.

Probably only a few hundred (my guess) will be "sons of perdition" because you have to have denied Christ after KNOWING FULLY - like face to face- that he exists and died for your sins and then deny it all.  It is said to be like looking at the sun and denying its brightness.  How many will "qualify" for that???   

The other "salvation" is exaltation which is theosis- becoming like God.  That is more difficult to qualify for- but guess what- as you seem to be aware- after you get to heaven as all good believing Christians will, you will have more information at your disposal about how things work.  At that point if you find we are right- you have full access to the path to exaltation as much as anyone here does.  And yes THAT means Melchizadek priesthood authority will unite you to your family forever, as we are today united in temples.

Christ the only high priest?  What happened to the "Royal Generation" of priests? 

Quote

 

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

But if you want to believe that, I am sure you eventually see it differently.   No biggie.  

And were I in charge, I would have no problem with you standing in the circle to bless a sick child, but most Mormons probably would.  I have had my wife stand in such circles, but I am odd I guess.  We stand in a circle in priesthood blessings because we believe it enhances the spirit.   I do not believe that somehow it "breaks a chain" to ask a non-priesthood holder in.  But some might.

It is my belief that eventually all honest Christians will take on the views of "Mormons" because I honestly think it is the best interpretation of Christianity ever, and that it reflects perfectly the original church in every point of doctrine.   I think around the time of the Nicene Creed everything went south- or even before that really- but that Creed was just the evidence that it all was lost by that time.

But it might take eons in "heaven" for all to find the way.   No problem- we have an infinity of eons to do it!!

So welcome and I am sure many here will be glad to chip in and teach you more than the 20 year olds know.  But let the spirit of God be your guide.  Don't take what I say or what any man says as "God's word".

Only God can tell you what his word is- for you- and the path he wants you to take!!

In God we Trust- all others pay cash!  

But this thread is about Houston.  Maybe it's time to start another thread.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by mfbukowski

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Thanks so very much for your reply. I don't wish to argue either. I wish to understand. Sometimes the best way to understand is to share one's beliefs as a way to see both differences and agreements; all this in an atmosphere and attitude that honors our heavenly father. Quite frankly, I am around Mormons every day - including a good part of most Sundays. I live in the midst (well, almost) of one of the most special Mormon places in the world (just ask them, hah!) the Mormon colonies of Mexico. I know bishops, stake presidents, LDS scholars, BYU profs., and yes two general authorities. 

What I am seeking to learn is this "No kidding, what do Mormons really believe?" or more specifically, "What do Mormons believe about non-Mormon believers in Christ?" Please believe me, I have learned this is almost a question without an answer. I have hundreds of Mormon books in my library (not one by an anti--Mormon, by the way). I have seen LDS doctrine morph and change from 1830 to 2017. I spend hours every day searching and reading.  Please don't tell me to talk to a Mormon missionary to get the straight scoop. They know their six lessons; that is about it. The last one who I tried to ask questions to here in my home was from Utah. He apologized but said he could only give the lessons in Spanish because that was all he was taught. Huh? They have little or no depth in Mormon history and doctrine. Please, I mean no offense in that. I know many of you served a mission and/or have kids or grandkids that are currently doing so. I served a mission myself at 20 years of age. That is simply my experience. When I ask them to explain no kidding, how the great apostasy worked, they blank out. That is important to me because it negates almost two thousand years of church history including my own. Then I ask three Mormons or three Mormon bishops (no offense) the same question and I get three different answers. Reading Millet is not the same as reading McConkie which is not the same as reading Woodruff, my personal favorite LDS president. I get told about persecution! Wow, don't forget I am Mennonite. I can tell stories of persecution that will make a Saint cry and for five hundred years longer! 

I came to this forum hoping that being somewhat anonymous and speaking to a somewhat more knowledgeable audience (you all) that I might be able to get some answers, realizing that even within this august body I won't get unanimity of opinion because each of you is on your own individual and idiosyncratic spiritual journey inside and perhaps outside of Mormonism. 

I guess I am trying to understand the LDS faith well enough to understand whether we can disagree on things, but still believe the other is a Christian brother or sister, without the other needing the services of the other?  Is there really no salvation outside of LDS priesthood authority? Really? What if I believe that Christ is the only high priest between us and God? Can we still be Christian brothers. I don't need to focus on the differences; I understand all about those. I need to understand the similarities on which fellowship and worship can be based. But, that is the challenge, maybe because it is not possible, and I need to stop trying. I am a non-Mormon who wants to accept Mormons as my Christian brothers. Understanding what I know, I believe I can be true to my faith and join in prayer for healing with a Mormon brother or sister for a sick child. What I can't get the answer to is are they joining in prayer with me for that child just to be nice, thinking all the time - he has no authority, he has no power . . . they know I have knowledge. Are they calling me brother because they believe everyone on earth is their brother because of that spark of the divine in all of us, and oh, by the way, they can always baptize or endow me after I am dead, so why make a big deal about it now? For years Mormons have focused almost obsessively on how they are treated and seen by non-Mormons. Now the worm is turning. More like me want to know what you all believe about me and my faith? I can testify and take up an entire sacrament meeting on my faith and the blessings I have had, and the joy and power of my faith, but I can't do so in Joseph Smith's name. Does that disqualify me from faith? The answer depends on who I ask.  Is there really not one single Mennonite elder or bishop in the world who has the power, authority, and knowledge of the Holy Spirit in his life in its fullness? Really? 

So many questions. So few answers. If I join this board you will have a loving, kind investigator in your midst who will want to know the truth. You won't be able to practice an LDS defensiveness by saying - he is the enemy, because let me assure you, I am not your enemy. I have already seen that word used in any number of posts that I have read - that disappoints me. Let me assure you, Mormons don't have nearly as many enemies as you think. That is a holdover from Hawn's Mill or Crooked River, or in my case the Mexican revolution with all its red-flaggers. Have I mentioned I think Jacob Hawn was a Mennonite, as were all the Whitmers? Sorry, I digress. What say you, should I stay or should I go? 

All good and valid questions that I would like to respond to but don't want to derail this thread.  I suggest you start a new topic including some of your questions.  

So, I heard a Mennonite joke that goes like this, "how many Mennonites does it take to change a light bulb?"  "No one knows.  Every time one tries they get excommunicated."

I take it that you are not one of those kind of Mennonites by the fact that you are on the computer?  

Edited August 29, 2017 by pogi

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Nothing wrong with requesting prayers just for themselves in my book!

That must be because you're one of those sanctimonious, selfish 'Mormons' who never give a second thought to anyone but others in your church. Or something like that...

[Navidad]

15 minutes ago, pogi said:

All good and valid questions that I would like to respond to but don't want to derail this thread.  I suggest you start a new topic including some of your questions.  

So, I heard a Mennonite joke that goes like this, "how many Mennonites does it take to change a light bulb?"  "No one knows.  Every time one tries they get excommunicated."

I take it that you are not one of those kind of Mennonites by the fact that you are on the computer?  

Thanks Pogi: No, I am a fairly modern Mennonite. There are different branches of the Mennonite church around the world. The fastest growing Mennonite group is in Ethiopia. The largest Mennonite church in the world is in Ethiopia and the country with the highest per capita percentage of Mennonites is Belize. A few years back the Mennonite church changed in that there are now more non-Caucasian Mennonites in the world than Caucasian. That is a big shift because for years being Mennonite was your culture, your dress, your food, your language, and all. Now all that has changed. I don't want to hijack any thread or ask a boatload of questions all at once. I have already said too much. I am simply frustrated and feel like I opened the spigot a bit too widely in my prior post. I look forward to learning from you all. Thanks. 

[pogi]

15 minutes ago, Navidad said:

 A few years back the Mennonite church changed in that there are now more non-Caucasian Mennonites in the world than Caucasian. 

So the non-Caucasian Mennonite population hit 25 huh?  

I shouldnt say that, Mormons can't boast about their numbers either.  We fairly recently hit a similar milestone - more Mormons out of the US then in.

Edited August 29, 2017 by pogi

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Since God clearly (no matter where one is coming from) never saves or spares absolutely everyone from everything (i.e., he allows things to happen to people all the time), then harping on this only makes sense from the non-believer statndpoint (there is no God, and our prayers are meaningless). From the believer standpoint, it has to do with degrees and levels of God's intervention and interaction. 

It's hard to tell where you are coming from. You strike me as a functional non-believer. Sure, you believe in God as a vague concept, but you don't seem to me to believe that he actually intercedes. In fact, you seem to mock the belief that he actually does in specific instances ("oh, that's adorbs, or cute" that you think that").

I'm struggling to follow what you are trying to say.  Did I say anything is adorbs or cute?  If you are just fishing for the compliment, then I get ya.  You are adorbs and cute, Rongo.  Other than that it feels like you have a tough time understanding where I'm coming from and seem to attribute to me an odd position--a functional non-believer.  In what functions have you observed me in? 

[rongo]

11 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I'm struggling to follow what you are trying to say.  Did I say anything is adorbs or cute? 

You do that all the time --- in the context of what you consider to be quaint or embarrassing beliefs or policies. As in, "that's so adorbs," or "it's cute that they believe that."

Personally, I can't stand that use for "cute," but it's a common mocking tactic in online discourse lately. And you seem to like using it with respect to theologically conservative Mormon belief or culture.

Quote

It feels like you have a tough time understanding where I'm coming from and seem to attribute to me an odd position--a functional non-believer.  In what functions have you observed me in?

Let's see if my read of you is off-base.

Do you believe that God sometimes protects buildings or people because they or others prayed specifically for that? Just as an example.

ETA: What I said was "You strike me as a functional non-believer. Sure, you believe in God as a vague concept, but you don't seem to me to believe that he actually intercedes."

What examples can you give from Church history where you believe God interceded or intervened? What about, say, in the last 50 years?

Edited August 29, 2017 by rongo
ETA

[Navidad]

31 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Well it's difficult because you say you understand us, but really do not understand some very basic stuff.  Obviously stay!!  It is just that this is not the best board for investigators because no one wants to spend time going over the basics.  Sorry but that is my opinion- and why you have been referred to the kids.

I will take that on if you want to listen, no problem- I would be honored.  I would find it a much more valuable way to spend what time I get here than arguing with others about how wrong they are about everything.

I suppose I could give you my credentials in the church, but suffice it to say I am in a stake leadership position after being a Bishop. I am also a temple worker so I have virtually memorized all the temple ordinances.   So ta da for me, neener neener, and that is about all it is worth.  I am not a 20 year old missionary, I have been a member 38 years and are 69 years old and have held nearly every single calling possible and been in a lot of meetings and do a lot of writing and studying in the church and in secular philosophy.    But none of that matters in our church really.   Most of us here are in similar positions. All worthy men are members of the Priesthood and I have no more authority than any other.    I am just citing it to say that I do know a bit about Mormonism.  But that does not mean ANYTHING but hot air as to my relationship with God as my judge.  He sees my heart and the intentions of my heart and that is all that counts in the final analysis- so really my word is worth nothing more than anyone else who is a member.  God is no respecter of persons and looks on our hearts.  My wife still likes me, if that helps.

No we do nothing in the name of Joseph Smith.  He was a man like all of us.  I am surprised frankly that you ask that.  It doesn't fit with the rest of your story.

"Salvation" has two meanings for us though we seldom acknowledge that.  One means "getting to heaven" and for that virtually everyone will "get to heaven" which makes us kind of universalists.

Probably only a few hundred (my guess) will be "sons of perdition" because you have to have denied Christ after KNOWING FULLY - like face to face- that he exists and died for your sins and then deny it all.  It is said to be like looking at the sun and denying its brightness.  How many will "qualify" for that???   

The other "salvation" is exaltation which is theosis- becoming like God.  That is more difficult to qualify for- but guess what- as you seem to be aware- after you get to heaven as all good believing Christians will, you will have more information at your disposal about how things work.  At that point if you find we are right- you have full access to the path to exaltation as much as anyone here does.  And yes THAT means Melchizadek priesthood authority will unite you to your family forever, as we are today united in temples.

Christ the only high priest?  What happened to the "Royal Generation" of priests? 

But if you want to believe that, I am sure you eventually see it differently.   No biggie.  

And were I in charge, I would have no problem with you standing in the circle to bless a sick child, but most Mormons probably would.  I have had my wife stand in such circles, but I am odd I guess.  We stand in a circle in priesthood blessings because we believe it enhances the spirit.   I do not believe that somehow it "breaks a chain" to ask a non-priesthood holder in.  But some might.

It is my belief that eventually all honest Christians will take on the views of "Mormons" because I honestly think it is the best interpretation of Christianity ever, and that it reflects perfectly the original church in every point of doctrine.   I think around the time of the Nicene Creed everything went south- or even before that really- but that Creed was just the evidence that it all was lost by that time.

But it might take eons in "heaven" for all to find the way.   No problem- we have an infinity of eons to do it!!

So welcome and I am sure many here will be glad to chip in and teach you more than the 20 year olds know.  But let the spirit of God be your guide.  Don't take what I say or what any man says as "God's word".

Only God can tell you what his word is- for you- and the path he wants you to take!!

In God we Trust- all others pay cash!  

But this thread is about Houston.  Maybe it's time to start another thread.

 

 

 

Got it. Another thread another day. Two quick things - I don't think I have ever heard a testimony in a testimony meeting that didn't include a statement of belief in Joseph Smith as God's prophet - that is what I meant by "in Joseph Smith's name." About the royal priesthood in I Peter - I believe that every believer, every one (male and female) who has been called out of darkness into light in Jesus Christ is a royal priest - able to have direct access to God the father through our high priest - Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:15). No need for a human intermediary with unique priesthood power. Every believer in Christ has the power and authority to access God and HIs gifts directly via the shed blood of Christ, the sacrificial lamb. Hasta luego! 

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, rongo said:

You do that all the time --- in the context of what you consider to be quaint or embarrassing beliefs or policies. As in, "that's so adorbs," or "it's cute that they believe that."

Personally, I can't stand that use for "cute," but it's a common mocking tactic in online discourse lately. And you seem to like using it with respect to theologically conservative Mormon belief or culture.

Then you have no problem pointing it out from, say, the past week?  Month?  Just curious.  I have used those two terms, for sure.  Wondering how you are interpreting them.  I wouldn't mind reviewing to see this all the time stuff, and whether I use them quite as you say.  I might need to correct it. 

3 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

Let's see if my read of you is off-base.

Do you believe that God sometimes protects buildings or people because they or others prayed specifically for that? Just as an example.

That's your measure about whether I function as a believer vs function as a non-believer?  Hm...not sure I'm interested to go through this game with you. 

[rodheadlee]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

 

That would seem to make sense, since apparently Joel Osteen's church in Houston didn't get flooded and tons of people go there.  So you may be on to something.

After being shamed on social media.

[rongo]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

That's your measure about whether I function as a believer vs function as a non-believer?  Hm...not sure I'm interested to go through this game with you. 

That's what I mean, though. There's a reason why you don't want to give any examples of God intervening. I think it's because you don't believe that he does. I think (based on the tenor of your posts) that you're okay with God as a vague concept, but not as one who actually intervenes or intercedes. That's why I said "functional non-believer" --- not as a self-described atheist, but as one who *functionally* and for all intents and purposes *functions* that way. 

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's what I mean, though. There's a reason why you don't want to give any examples of God intervening. I think it's because you don't believe that he does. I think (based on the tenor of your posts) that you're okay with God as a vague concept, but not as one who actually intervenes or intercedes. That's why I said "functional non-believer" --- not as a self-described atheist, but as one who *functionally* and for all intents and purposes *functions* that way. 

I didn't say any of that.  I said I don't want to play the game of you deciding my belief status.  Nothing more.

[rodheadlee]

20 hours ago, cinepro said:

I guess I don't understand the logic in asking God to stay the storm that He has full control over.

And with tens of thousands of people in danger of losing everything they own, including their lives and the lives of their families, I would feel odd making a special petition to God to save a single vacant structure that doesn't actually house anyone and can no doubt be rebuilt.

The only way I could see such a prayer making sense is if the Temple doors had been thrown open and the surrounding citizens had been invited in to seek refuge from the storm, and the poorest and most helpless in Houston were sheltered there as a last resort.  But I'll go out on a limb and guess that that didn't happen.

4 O ye people of these ^agreat cities which have fallen, who are descendants of Jacob, yea, who are of the house of Israel, how oft have I ^bgathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and have ^cnourished you.

  5 And again, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, yea, O ^aye people of the house of Israel, who havefallen; yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, ye that dwell at Jerusalem, as ye that have fallen; yea, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens, and ye would not.

  6 O ye house of Israel whom I have ^aspared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and ^breturn unto me with full purpose of ^cheart.

  7 But if not, O house of Israel, the places of your dwellings shall become ^adesolate until the time of the fulfilling of the ^bcovenant to your fathers.

[mfbukowski]

31 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Got it. Another thread another day. Two quick things - I don't think I have ever heard a testimony in a testimony meeting that didn't include a statement of belief in Joseph Smith as God's prophet - that is what I meant by "in Joseph Smith's name." About the royal priesthood in I Peter - I believe that every believer, every one (male and female) who has been called out of darkness into light in Jesus Christ is a royal priest - able to have direct access to God the father through our high priest - Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:15). No need for a human intermediary with unique priesthood power. Every believer in Christ has the power and authority to access God and HIs gifts directly via the shed blood of Christ, the sacrificial lamb. Hasta luego! 

Misconception

No one said you have to have the Priesthood or needed a Priesthood intermediary.

It's about ordinances and what they mean and why we have them.  If you want another book on your shelf,  here is one I would suggest. It gives the history of the Christian Priesthood among other things

https://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Flock-Foundations-Mormon-Thought/dp/0199794936

For under 15 bucks in the kindle version it is an incredible buy.  You want to know why Mormons practice what they do?  THIS is the book.

Why did Abraham pay tithes to Melchizadek?  

With whom did Abraham covenant and why give M his tithe?  Who the heck was M in the first place and why was his authority needed before Levi was even on the earth?

Shall I start the thread?

Edit:  I did it

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69487-our-mennonite-investigator/

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by mfbukowski

[MorningStar]

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

What about short term?

It would make more sense to seek shelter at a not flooded stake center.  If I were in a flood, I wouldn't run to a place that was also going to flood.  

[jkwilliams]

Good article in the DesNews. President Pack was our stake president when we lived in Cypress. He's a really good man.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687694/Texas-LDS-meetinghouse-becomes-shelter-boat-command-center.html

[MorningStar]

I don't think the request for prayers is about the building, but the work to be done there and the people who go there for comfort, answers, etc.  If I lost everything in a flood, I would want to go to the temple more than ever.  Not having one to go to would add to the trial.  I do understand though the feeling that the first priority is to pray for people's lives, homes, etc. 

[mfbukowski]

26 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

It would make more sense to seek shelter at a not flooded stake center.  If I were in a flood, I wouldn't run to a place that was also going to flood.  

Predicting that is another problem

[mfbukowski]

My son in NE Houston says the sun came out today- first time in days.  No water in his street, major puddles in back yard about 3 inches deep but that's about it.

Hope the worst is over

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

My son in NE Houston says the sun came out today- first time in days.  No water in his street, major puddles in back yard about 3 inches deep but that's about it.

Hope the worst is over

Me too. Here's a photo of my daughter's family room. 

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The ability to endure it and a successfully recovering will happen no matter how,hard we pray for them. What we should pray for is delicious pastry products.

I have tried that.  It doesn't work; unless I go out and buy them myself. After all, faith without works is dead.  

[Atheist Mormon]

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

I admit this was my reaction too.   I don't think I'd feel comfortable praying for the temple to be protected when people are losing their homes. Though I understand that I could certainly pray for both, and it's not like God would have to choose which prayer to answer. I would still feel weird about it though. 

Here I am in the middle of this chaos, it is very hard to pray for my own safety, this time I was spared, my house was not flooded. It is hard to revel in anything when you see so many people suffer. I was talking to my son telling him at least we had a days heads up with this storm to get ready, when an earthquake hits there be ready... And when that happens there won't be much discrimination between believer and non_believer.

[sunstoned]

21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am praying for everyone and everything in Houston at this point including the temple. It looked like the city was going to get a reprieve in the next few days a few hours ago but now it is looking bad again. If the reservoirs fail catastrophically the death toll could easily reach five figures. I do not want to be alarmist and this is worst case(well actually six figures would be worst case but less likely) and it may not get that bad but it is a possibility.

Basically I am saying pray for relief for everyone and everything in the city including the temple.  

This is a good way to look at it.  If the water goes down and it stops raining, then that is good for everyone.