Our Mennonite Investigator

[mfbukowski]

We have a new Mennonite member of the board who has been investigating the church for years, though he has only been a member of the board a little while.  He seems to be well informed, but still is missing some basic understanding of the church, and felt a little neglected.

He understandably is tired of talking to 20-year olds!

I thought I would start this thread so we can help him.  I'd rather be doing missionary work than arguing with fellow Mormons about how wrong they are

I suppose we will get our usual interference from critics, but such is life.   His name is Navidad, and this was one of his questions on another thread

Quote

Got it. Another thread another day. Two quick things - I don't think I have ever heard a testimony in a testimony meeting that didn't include a statement of belief in Joseph Smith as God's prophet - that is what I meant by "in Joseph Smith's name." About the royal priesthood in I Peter - I believe that every believer, every one (male and female) who has been called out of darkness into light in Jesus Christ is a royal priest - able to have direct access to God the father through our high priest - Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:15). No need for a human intermediary with unique priesthood power. Every believer in Christ has the power and authority to access God and HIs gifts directly via the shed blood of Christ, the sacrificial lamb. Hasta luego! 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

We have a new Mennonite member of the board who has been investigating the church for years, though he has only been a member of the board a little while.  He seems to be well informed, but still is missing some basic understanding of the church, and felt a little neglected.

He understandably is tired of talking to 20-year olds!

I thought I would start this thread so we can help him.  I'd rather be doing missionary work than arguing with fellow Mormons about how wrong they are

I suppose we will get our usual interference from critics, but such is life.   His name is Navidad, and this was one of his questions on another thread

 

Hi: I am sorry I didn't see this thread before I just posted mine. I guess that is fine. I brought up the point about the priesthood because our/my beliefs are that all believers in Christ are priests/ male and female. It is often termed as  the belief in the "priesthood of the believer." All believers are priests in that we all have the right to have direct access to God because we have been washed by the blood of the Lamb - Jesus Christ and therefore are cleansed and empowered to appeal directly to God. We don't need to access  God through any human priesthood holder, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or LDS. (sorry). We also believe a la the Book of Hebrews that Jesus Christ is our high priest - the only high priest. He is the high priest after the order of Melchizedek - there is not mention in scriptures of a Melchizedek priesthood in this day and age for anyone but Christ. We actually know very little about the historical person Melchizedek. He is only mentioned in Genesis once, Psalms once and six or seven times in Hebrews. He was unique in that he was apparently the only person in Old Testament times to hold both the roles of priest and king. He was the King of Salem. The King of Peace. Whether this is meant literally or metaphorically we don't know. Samaritans have claimed him as a king and priest on Mount Gerazim, Jews have interpreted him as Shem, the son of Adam. We (no one) knows who exactly he was. Abram gave him a tithe and accepted a blessing from him? Why, because Abraham was neither priest nor king and clearer felt the "lesser needed to accept a blessing from the greater" not the other way around. Christ in the book of Hebrews is said to be the high priest after the order of Melchizedek or Christ is Melchizedek's heir as king and priest. Melchizedek is a figure hidden in the mists of time. We really don't know who he was; of course that hasn't stopped folks from every Jewish, Christian, and mystery tradition from speculating. Jesus Christ is our high priest and the King of Peace (Salem). This is a very important concept to a Mennonite since we believe very strongly in peace and conflict resolution. Christ is our model in that. That differentiates us from aggressive groups like Baptists. Our missionary work is done via service to the needy, not by direct proselytizing. We meet needs and via the gift of helps seek to serve and via that means may win converts, but that is not the priority. I guess that is about it. 

[The Nehor]

How do you feel about negative portrayals of Mennonites in the media?

 

[Navidad]

My first reaction is Wow, I had no idea you could post something like that on the board! Very cool! My second reaction is they need to do some research. They have Amish beards on the Mennonites. They have the Mennonites smoking cigarettes - everyone knows Mennonites only smoke cigars. The gambling is pretty accurate because it doesn't show them with playing cards. That definitely wouldn't be Mennonite. I have never seen this show before. I don't like the part of the child disrespecting his father. Other than those things I have no opinion about it. I certainly am not offended. It is obviously a parody and no self respecting Amish man would put up a second story without having the first story framed first! 

[mfbukowski]

I am going to ask to have this thread closed to not detract from Navidad's own thread he has started.

 

[Calm]

"don't like the part of the child disrespecting his father."

You should probably avoid the show then...the kid pretty much constantly disrespects everyone from what little I have seen (while the comedy is very clever at times, I don't find avoidable disasters, corruption, vulgarity, stupidity all that funny even in cartoons so I have only seen a few episodes that people asked me to watch).

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

My first reaction is Wow, I had no idea you could post something like that on the board! Very cool! My second reaction is they need to do some research. They have Amish beards on the Mennonites. They have the Mennonites smoking cigarettes - everyone knows Mennonites only smoke cigars. The gambling is pretty accurate because it doesn't show them with playing cards. That definitely wouldn't be Mennonite. I have never seen this show before. I don't like the part of the child disrespecting his father. Other than those things I have no opinion about it. I certainly am not offended. It is obviously a parody and no self respecting Amish man would put up a second story without having the first story framed first! 

I like you.  

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Navidad said:

Hi: I am sorry I didn't see this thread before I just posted mine. I guess that is fine. I brought up the point about the priesthood because our/my beliefs are that all believers in Christ are priests/ male and female. It is often termed as  the belief in the "priesthood of the believer." All believers are priests in that we all have the right to have direct access to God because we have been washed by the blood of the Lamb - Jesus Christ and therefore are cleansed and empowered to appeal directly to God. We don't need to access  God through any human priesthood holder, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or LDS. (sorry). We also believe a la the Book of Hebrews that Jesus Christ is our high priest - the only high priest. He is the high priest after the order of Melchizedek - there is not mention in scriptures of a Melchizedek priesthood in this day and age for anyone but Christ. We actually know very little about the historical person Melchizedek. He is only mentioned in Genesis once, Psalms once and six or seven times in Hebrews. He was unique in that he was apparently the only person in Old Testament times to hold both the roles of priest and king. He was the King of Salem. The King of Peace. Whether this is meant literally or metaphorically we don't know. Samaritans have claimed him as a king and priest on Mount Gerazim, Jews have interpreted him as Shem, the son of Adam. We (no one) knows who exactly he was. Abram gave him a tithe and accepted a blessing from him? Why, because Abraham was neither priest nor king and clearer felt the "lesser needed to accept a blessing from the greater" not the other way around. Christ in the book of Hebrews is said to be the high priest after the order of Melchizedek or Christ is Melchizedek's heir as king and priest. Melchizedek is a figure hidden in the mists of time. We really don't know who he was; of course that hasn't stopped folks from every Jewish, Christian, and mystery tradition from speculating. Jesus Christ is our high priest and the King of Peace (Salem). This is a very important concept to a Mennonite since we believe very strongly in peace and conflict resolution. Christ is our model in that. That differentiates us from aggressive groups like Baptists. Our missionary work is done via service to the needy, not by direct proselytizing. We meet needs and via the gift of helps seek to serve and via that means may win converts, but that is not the priority. I guess that is about it. 

Hopefully before the thread gets closed: Alma 13 allows for an aspect of the "priesthood of the believer" but the believer then also must act in order to realize the priesthood he was foreordained to rightly lay claim to.

[Meerkat]

13 hours ago, Navidad said:

Jesus Christ is our high priest and the King of Peace (Salem). This is a very important concept to a Mennonite since we believe very strongly in peace and conflict resolution. Christ is our model in that. That differentiates us from aggressive groups like Baptists. Our missionary work is done via service to the needy, not by direct proselytizing. We meet needs and via the gift of helps seek to serve and via that means may win converts, but that is not the priority. I guess that is about it. 

Hi Navidad--

Years ago, we home schooled our children using a Mennonite curriculum called Christian Light.  We felt it was excellent. Three of the five graduated from BYU, one UW.  We found much commonality in those materials and have high regard for the Mennonites.

Jesus Christ is our high priest and King of Peace.  I agree with your statement that all believers are empowered to appeal directly to God.  I view that part of my faith as prayer.  The Melchisedek Priesthood is authority to act in God's name, and is conferred by authority and the laying on of hands.  

Hebrews 5 helps clarify this point to me: "1 For every high priest taken from among men (meaning more than the Savior only,) is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
            2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
            3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
            4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
            5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
            6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

It is actually the Lord's priesthood, called Melchesidek to avoid the too frequent mention of His name. 

I don't believe we can assume authority by our faith in the Savior alone.  As we read in Hebrews 5, we must be called of God as was Aaron.  

I love this scripture in 1 Peter 2 that goes along with the Melchizedek Priesthood promoting peace.  And I can also see your point here, how a believer could feel they are priests through Jesus Christ.  "5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
            6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
            7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
            8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
            9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
            10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

That is a beautiful scripture, but somewhat ambiguous.  That is an important reason we need a prophet, for clarification.  I would say most mormons believe this.    I wish you all the best.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Meerkat