Gay Beehive Delivers Prepared Speech in F&T Meeting - Ends as Expected

[cinepro]

So does anyone want to give odds on this girl being ex-communicated?

[MorningStar]

I just listened to the podcast where she was interviewed.  She had asked her mom for a while if she could get up and bear her testimony in such a way. At first her mom said no, but later she helped her write it and the girl invited people to come hear it.  She also said her bishop was gone and that she's sure he would have been kind about it.  It was the stake president who shut off the microphone and asked her to go sit down.  Her mom never should have allowed it and encouraged her to instead just make her own YouTube video coming out or write a blog rather than planning to share her goal to grow up and go against the church.  How is that a testimony when one of your main points is that you don't plan on living the gospel when you grow up?  

People ruining testimony meeting is my pet peeve and this one takes the cake. I have known bishops to ask people to sit down before for preaching false doctrine.  My father-in-law unfortunately found himself in that position and other times the person was just monopolizing the entire meeting.  I go to F&T meeting to be uplifted.  

 

 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The point, in case you missed it, is that she was proposing that it isn't a sin.  She wasn't asking to be accepted in spite of her sins.  She was suggesting that the way she feels and identifies, and what she hopes for the future, doesn't make her a "sinner" in the first place, and the Church is wrong for teaching otherwise.

And yet there are people here stating that she didn't teach any doctrine against the Church beliefs.

Quote

In the Church, the idea that homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is "wrong" is on a collision course with the idea that homosexuality may not be a de facto sin and gay marriage might not be "wrong".  And seeing the Church work it out will be like watching a slow-motion train-wreck for as long as it takes to play out.

Agreed.  More changes are definitely coming.  Now, whether they come from God or man....that's a different issue.

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

So does anyone want to give odds on this girl being ex-communicated?

Is there precedence for excommunications of minors?  I honestly don't know if I've ever read of one.

[JLHPROF]

20 minutes ago, juliann said:

What in the WORLD gives you the right to call a young teen, a complete stranger,  a sinner??????????

The same ability to reason that gives us the knowledge of right and wrong.

Sin is identified in scripture and teachings of prophets.  Those who commit those sins are sinners.  It's not an insult to recognize reality.

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, cinepro said:

So does anyone want to give odds on this girl being ex-communicated?

Right now, zero.

[Jane_Doe]

25 minutes ago, juliann said:

What in the WORLD gives you the right to call a young teen, a complete stranger,  a sinner??????????

We're all sinners.  It's nothing specific to her.  We are all welcome at church.  Doesn't mean we should take the pulpit and celebrate our desire to sin.

[juliann]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The same ability to reason that gives us the knowledge of right and wrong.

Sin is identified in scripture and teachings of prophets.  Those who commit those sins are sinners.  It's not an insult to recognize reality.

Since we are all sinners, and have been told by no less than Uchtdorf to knock off the mote/beam thing, as in STOP IT!, it is a serious enough offense that Jesus saw the need to include that tendency in one of his few recorded parables. In other words, if you want to recognize sins, talk about your own. 

[rockpond]

8 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

I just listened to the podcast where she was interviewed.  She had asked her mom for a while if she could get up and bear her testimony in such a way. At first her mom said no, but later she helped her write it and the girl invited people to come hear it.  She also said her bishop was gone and that she's sure he would have been kind about it.  It was the stake president who shut off the microphone and asked her to go sit down.  Her mom never should have allowed it and encouraged her to instead just make her own YouTube video coming out or write a blog rather than planning to share her goal to grow up and go against the church.  How is that a testimony when one of your main points is that you don't plan on living the gospel when you grow up?  

People ruining testimony meeting is my pet peeve and this one takes the cake. I have known bishops to ask people to sit down before for preaching false doctrine.  My father-in-law unfortunately found himself in that position and other times the person was just monopolizing the entire meeting.  I go to F&T meeting to be uplifted.  

Which podcast interviewed her?  I'd like to listen to that.

My take on the girl was that she was sharing her belief about her Heavenly Parents and their plan for her.  Even though it goes against current church policy, I don't see anything wrong with it and I did find it uplifting.

[juliann]

1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

We're all sinners.  It's nothing specific to her.  We are all welcome at church.  Doesn't mean we should take the pulpit and celebrate our desire to sin.

According to Jesus and Pres. Uchdorf, you are sinning right now.  Do you think you are sounding a little bit celebratory as you defend it?

[HappyJackWagon]

13 minutes ago, cinepro said:

So does anyone want to give odds on this girl being ex-communicated?

Very unlikely.

But there is a pretty interesting story from the 1830's of an 11 year old being excommunicated for claiming to see an angel. So it's not out of the realm of possibility.  

 

[Jane_Doe]

14 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The point, in case you missed it, is that she was proposing that it isn't a sin.  She wasn't asking to be accepted in spite of her sins.  She was suggesting that the way she feels and identifies, and what she hopes for the future, doesn't make her a "sinner" in the first place, and the Church is wrong for teaching otherwise.

Clarifying my post: she and every other person that's ever walked this earth (save Christ) is a sinner.  It's nothing specific to her SSA.  If she had just token the podium and talked about SSA that would have been fine.   But when she stands on the podium and says how she looks forward to sinning in the future (acting on her SSA), that's not ok.  It would likewise not be ok for me to take the podium and talk about how I look forward to [insert whatever sin here] in the future.

[Jeanne]

43 minutes ago, juliann said:

Let's be honest. If this was really about concern about shaming that child, the parent would have prevented her from doing it. Just as they would have prevented her from creating any other situation in which she would be harmed. Does that even need to be said? Really?

So for good or bad, the parents were fully on board with putting her up there. I think we can get that out of the way real quick before proceeding to the next high moral ground marker. 

Who knows what her parents really wanted her to do..but one thing they did not do..and this..shut her up.  It is sad that yes...she would be harmed..and parents would have known that..but they love her enough to let her speak..she is harmed no matter what unless the church finds a different way of acceptance..If not now..umpteen times later in her life.

[stemelbow]

20 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

I just listened to the podcast where she was interviewed.  She had asked her mom for a while if she could get up and bear her testimony in such a way. At first her mom said no, but later she helped her write it and the girl invited people to come hear it.  She also said her bishop was gone and that she's sure he would have been kind about it.  It was the stake president who shut off the microphone and asked her to go sit down.  Her mom never should have allowed it and encouraged her to instead just make her own YouTube video coming out or write a blog rather than planning to share her goal to grow up and go against the church.  How is that a testimony when one of your main points is that you don't plan on living the gospel when you grow up?  

People ruining testimony meeting is my pet peeve and this one takes the cake. I have known bishops to ask people to sit down before for preaching false doctrine.  My father-in-law unfortunately found himself in that position and other times the person was just monopolizing the entire meeting.  I go to F&T meeting to be uplifted.  

 

 

 

 

I doubt I've heard a more uplifting testimony in recent years.  I'm encouraged her mom seems so supportive too.  I'd love to hear this podcast.  Where is it?

[Maestrophil]

52 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Are you seriously comparing someone being born gay with having a bad temper or having too much pride?  Or having lust and wanting to cheat on a partner?

How about you try to overcome being attracted to the opposite sex?  Could you "control those emotions" and live a celibate life?

I, of course, can't say what I would do for certain, as I am not gay.  I can say that I am straight and refrained from sex until I was married, and was prepared to wait my entire lifetime if I never found the right person to marry as a celibate person. Based on that, yes, I think I would remain celibate were I gay. 

The problem here is, as many others were stating, that she was promoting choosing a lifestyle that is contrary to church standards. If a person got up and started talking about taking magic mushrooms and LDS was spiritual, and they planned on doing it throughout their lives and that God was OK with that, the plug would get pulled eventually.  And with good reason.  And as far as being upset because someone called her a sinner?  Of COURSE she is a sinner.  We all are.  But we don't all try and shout from the pulpit that God approves of all of our choices, or even worse, that he SHOULD approve.   

The most telling thing to me, is that when she finished reading her testimony at the end of the video, she did not close it win the name of Jesus Christ.  It is obvious to me that this was a declaration of self-desire, and not a testimony of someone trying to be obedient.  

 

[Maestrophil]

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Clarifying my post: she and every other person that's ever walked this earth (save Christ) is a sinner.  It's nothing specific to her SSA.  If she had just token the podium and talked about SSA that would have been fine.   But when she stands on the podium and says how she looks forward to sinning in the future (acting on her SSA), that's not ok.  It would likewise not be ok for me to take the podium and talk about how I look forward to [insert whatever sin here] in the future.

Precisely.  

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, juliann said:

Since we are all sinners, and have been told by no less than Uchtdorf to knock off the mote/beam thing, as in STOP IT!, it is a serious enough offense that Jesus saw the need to include that tendency in one of his few recorded parables. In other words, if you want to recognize sins, talk about your own.

You are conflating judging with recognizing sin.

I am not sitting in judgment of this girl.  But if I see someone commit a sin it is not an issue of judgment to call it such.
The Bishop sits in judgment.  The witnesses testify.
It requires no moral judgment to be a witness of a sinful act.

[stemelbow]

18 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Which podcast interviewed her?  I'd like to listen to that.

My take on the girl was that she was sharing her belief about her Heavenly Parents and their plan for her.  Even though it goes against current church policy, I don't see anything wrong with it and I did find it uplifting.

found it

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

SHE is welcome.  So is every other sinner.  Doesn't mean we stand over the pulpit celebrating the desire to sin or looking forward to it.  

If you really think this, then you have no idea how the policies of the church have effected those members that are gay.  You can say you are welcome all you want, but actions speak louder than words.

[rockpond]

9 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

found it

Thanks!

And I guess now we can put to rest the idea (suggested by some here) that she was "put up to this" by her parents or other adults.  And she also didn't expect to get cut-off.  From the transcript:

Savannah: Yeah. So, I wanted to share my testimony from the beginning of this year, and I kept asking and asking, and getting a “no”, because it would be—

Jerilyn: Who were you asking?

Savannah: Oh, my mom and dad, and they finally said yes, and we started writing my testimony, and we went through a couple of rough drafts, and by the time we finally made the perfect one, I was waiting until the next Fast Sunday...

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by rockpond

[stemelbow]

I'm more impressed after reading the transcript of the podcast.  That was awesome.  She's a great kid. 

 

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

Thanks!

And I guess now we can put to rest the idea (suggested by some here) that she was "put up to this" by her parents or other adults.  And she also didn't expect to get cut-off.  From the transcript:

Savannah: Yeah. So, I wanted to share my testimony from the beginning of this year, and I kept asking and asking, and getting a “no”, because it would be—

Jerilyn: Who were you asking?

Savannah: Oh, my mom and dad, and they finally said yes, and we started writing my testimony, and we went through a couple of rough drafts, and by the time we finally made the perfect one, I was waiting until the next Fast Sunday...

 

Yeah...I wasn't impressed with all the conspiracy theories that people were jumping to here. 

[stemelbow]

17 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You are conflating judging with recognizing sin.

I am not sitting in judgment of this girl.  But if I see someone commit a sin it is not an issue of judgment to call it such.
The Bishop sits in judgment.  The witnesses testify.
It requires no moral judgment to be a witness of a sinful act.

Well I'm confused.  What sinful act have you observed this girl do? 

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

Well I'm confused.  What sinful act have you observed this girl do?

None yet.  Which is why I don't see anyone on this thread calling her a sinner yet.
But for some reason there are posts accusing those who disagree with her talk as labeling her a sinner.

However, she DID advocate a sinful behavior as acceptable over the pulpit.   And was thus asked to sit down by the presiding priesthood authority at the meeting.
And rightly so.

[RevTestament]

Well into the hornets nest. I think these parents ought to be ashamed of themselves. They obviously knew about the testimony. It was planned. They had a camera so they could film the reaction. I would never allow my child to go up there and give a testimony like that about private things or sinful things. This is contrary to the purpose of fast and testimony meeting. It is not a time for political viewpoints. It is not a time to talk about one's sexual preferences. It is not a time to express displeasure over Church policies. Even if the statement was the girl's very own words and feelings, parents need to properly guide their child on giving a testimony. They knew what she was going to say, and either let her or persuaded her to go up there anyway. If the latter, I feel it is a despicable abuse of parental guidance for political purposes. If the former, it is poor parenting. 

For one thing matters of sexual identity are often a little confused during childhood, and kids that feel like they want to be the opposite sex often change their mind when they reach sexual maturation. Kids may also change their feelings about physical attraction over time. Marching up there to announce "i am gay" is just not appropriate. I would never march up there when I was 12 and announce "I am a heterosexual, and hope to be married in the temple one day to one of your daughters" or something like that. It's just not an appropriate topic for a testimony. A testimony should be about one's experiences with the gospel and others - not about what one hopes to be when they grow up or their sex lives, etc. Most kids at twelve don't even know these words - lesbian, etc - or at least they didn't when I was a kid. And for anyone to talk about lgbt issues in fast & testimony is not appropriate much less allowing your 12 year old child to do it. I didn't think about sexual identity when I was twelve or about having sex with anyone - girl or boy. I didn't really know anything about it, and I'm not that old. It's almost like our society now expects kids to choose their sexual identity when they are prepubescent. There is just something wrong with that in my mind. Perhaps the hope is that other pre-pubescent children will get up there and start talking about their sexual preferences and identities. Is it Church or is it some sideshow? Just please America. Can we forget the darn preoccupation with sex? It really is sad.

The comments on the youtube page are foul and disgusting, and for the parent(s) to post this video like that just smacks of political manipulation. If they are that angry with the Church, they should leave rather than to use their daughter this way to make a political statement. This little girl is brave, and I wish her the best.

Edited June 15, 2017 by RevTestament