Gay Beehive Delivers Prepared Speech in F&T Meeting - Ends as Expected

[cinepro]

 

Another interesting chapter in Church history (or culture?) for the internet age:

 

 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

Well, I'm all for freedom of speech and differing viewpoints.
But my understanding is that the presiding authority has a responsibility to prevent false doctrine being taught at the pulpit.
I don't think it matters how young or adorable the person teaching the false doctrine happens to be.

And given the identity of the person posting the video all over the internet, that is hardly someone you would want on your side.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JLHPROF

[Gillebre]

Anyone care to summarize or otherwise relate her message in writing?

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Gillebre said:

Anyone care to summarize or otherwise relate her message in writing?

She's gay and believes God made her that way and loves her.

[Gillebre]

That doesn't sound too bad. God does love her.

[HappyJackWagon]

6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, I'm all for freedom of speech and differing viewpoints.
But my understanding is that the presiding authority has a responsibility to prevent false doctrine being taught at the pulpit.
I don't think it matters how young or adorable the person teaching the false doctrine happens to be.

What false doctrine was taught? Can you provide an example or two?

What false doctrines were corrected by the leader who stood up after telling this girl to sit down? There were no corrections? I assume there would have been if some false doctrine had been taught.

I find this video heartbreaking. This is a brave girl who couldn't finish speaking because the leaders were too threatened by what she was saying or perhaps feared what she might say.

I'm still trying to process this. Heartbreaking.

[cinepro]

4 minutes ago, Gillebre said:

Anyone care to summarize or otherwise relate her message in writing?

1. Hi my name is Savannah, and I want to share my testimony with you.
2. I believe I am a child of heavenly parents.
3. I don't know if they talk to us
4. but I feel in my heart that they made me and that they love me.
5. I believe I was made the way I am, all parts of me, by my heavenly parents.
6. They did not mess up when they gave me brown eyes or when I was born bald.
7. They did not mess up when they gave me freckles or when they made me to be gay.
8. God loves me just this way, because I believe that he loves all his creations.
9. I do believe he made me this way on purpose.
10. No part of me is a mistake.
11. I do not choose to be this way, and it is not a fad.
12. I cannot make someone else gay and being around me won't make anyone else this way.
13. I believe that God wants us to treat each other with kindness, even if people are different.
14. Especially if they are different.
15. Christ showed us this.
16. I believe that we should just love.
17. I believe I am good.
18. I try my best to be nice to each other and stick up for those that are hurting.
19. I know I'm not a horrible sinner for being who I am.
20. I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.
21. I hope someday to go on dates, go to school dances, to hold hands, to go off to college.
22. I hope to find a partner and have a great job.
23. I hope to get married and have a family.
24. I know these dreams and wishes are good and right.
25. I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.
26. I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.
27. and would never ask me to live my life alone or with someone I am not attracted to.
28. He would want me to be happy.
29. I want to be happy.
30. I want to love myself and not to feel shame for being me.

Edited June 15, 2017 by cinepro

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

She's gay and believes God made her that way and loves her.

Did God create her?

If God did not make her that way did God make a mistake?

Does he not love her?

What is wrong with her statements?

[cinepro]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

What false doctrine was taught? Can you provide an example or two?

What false doctrines were corrected by the leader who stood up after telling this girl to sit down? There were no corrections? I assume there would have been if some false doctrine had been taught.

I find this video heartbreaking. This is a brave girl who couldn't finish speaking because the leaders were too threatened by what she was saying or perhaps feared what she might say.

I'm still trying to process this. Heartbreaking.

The bolded lines in the summary above are probably the part that would be considered "false doctrine."

[Tacenda]

I feel bad about her getting the plug pulled, but it sheds light on how some in the church feel about the gay issue. This is already making the rounds in the news. 

If this is the start of what is to become in sharing views like this at the pulpit, I wonder how long F&T meeting will continue. I've seen other videos when someone had the volume turned down but it was about a faith crisis. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The bolded lines in the summary above are probably the part that would be considered "false doctrine."

Aw, I see no bold. I get it. 

[ksfisher]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

 

If this is the start of what is to become in sharing views like this at the pulpit, I wonder how long F&TT will continue.

Is fast and testimony meeting a forum for sharing views or for the bearing of testimony?

[cinepro]

Just now, Tacenda said:

Aw, I see no bold. I get it. 

Lines 23 and 27 are probably the most problematic.  Those contradict the most clear and basic positions the Church has taken against those who experience same-sex attraction.

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, cinepro said:

The bolded lines in the summary above are probably the part that would be considered "false doctrine."

Those things aren't being stated as doctrine. She is expressing her hope for a happy life. That seems pretty reasonable for a testimony.

There is no doctrine stating that God erred in his creation of certain people.

The only possible area of disagreement is when she states that God wouldn't want her to live her life alone or with someone she's not attracted to. If one conflates the church with God, then it is definitely clear that the church wants people to remain alone or in a marriage to someone she is not attracted to. But that really seems like more of a policy than a doctrine.

 

[Tacenda]

Just now, cinepro said:

Lines 23 and 27 are probably the most problematic.  Those contradict the most clear and basic positions the Church has taken against those who experience same-sex attraction.

I must have saw the post before the bold I guess, too bad, I thought it clever.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

Is fast and testimony meeting a forum for sharing views or for the bearing of testimony?

It's a forum for sharing beliefs & hopes (which this girl did) but only if those hopes and beliefs pass the censorship test.

[cinepro]

The interesting thing about this is that in order for the Church to maintain its policies (and doctrines) against homosexuality, the people who experience same-sex attraction had to keep their mouths shut.  It was easy to believe that those who experience same-sex attraction should remain celibate and not have the option to get legally married or enjoy long-term relationships or raise children when there was no voice in support of those options.

But when someone you know (and respect and/or love) becomes a voice for these issues, you have to make a choice.  Now everyone in that ward that previously felt those who experience same-sex attraction should not have the legal right to get married (and still don't have the moral right) have to choose between that belief and little Savannah.  Many people might support the Church on these issues given that choice, but I don't think everyone will.  Minds and hearts will start to change, and the problem will not go away. 

Interesting times ahead.

[juliann]

10 minutes ago, cinepro said:

1. Hi my name is Savannah, and I want to share my testimony with you.
2. I believe I am a child of heavenly parents.
3. I don't know if they talk to us
4. but I feel in my heart that they made me and that they love me.
5. I believe I was made the way I am, all parts of me, by my heavenly parents.
6. They did not mess up when they gave me brown eyes or when I was born bald.
7. They did not mess up when they gave me freckles or when they made me to be gay.
8. God loves me just this way, because I believe that he loves all his creations.
9. I do believe he made me this way on purpose.
10. No part of me is a mistake.
11. I do not choose to be this way, and it is not a fad.
12. I cannot make someone else gay and being around me won't make anyone else this way.
13. I believe that God wants us to treat each other with kindness, even if people are different.
14. Especially if they are different.
15. Christ showed us this.
16. I believe that we should just love.
17. I believe I am good.
18. I try my best to be nice to each other and stick up for those that are hurting.
19. I know I'm not a horrible sinner for being who I am.
20. I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.
21. I hope someday to go on dates, go to school dances, to hold hands, to go off to college.
22. I hope to find a partner and have a great job.
23. I hope to get married and have a family.
24. I know these dreams and wishes are good and right.
25. I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.
26. I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.
27. and would never ask me to live my life alone or with someone I am not attracted to.
28. He would want me to be happy.
29. I want to be happy.
30. I want to love myself and not to feel shame for being me.

I wish her the best.

What do you want to discuss?  I assume some church dude in that ward did something mean. Is that what you are getting at?

[juliann]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Is fast and testimony meeting a forum for sharing views or for the bearing of testimony?

Well.....actuallly.....

travelmonies

speshulmonies

thankamonies

lovemonies

medicalmonies

And our favorite....10 minute.sermonies!

Frankly, I think they are all out of place. F&T meeting shouldn't be a bully pulpit.

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by juliann

[JLHPROF]

22 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

What false doctrine was taught? Can you provide an example or two?

 

 

21 minutes ago, cinepro said:

They did not mess up when they gave me freckles or when they made me to be gay.

I do believe he made me this way on purpose.

I believe God would tell me if I was wrong.

I know I can have all of these things as a lesbian and be happy.

I believe that if God is there, he knows I am perfect, just the way I am.

All of these are questionable at least, and possibly just plain wrong.

[ksfisher]

11 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's a forum for sharing beliefs & hopes (which this girl did) but only if those hopes and beliefs pass the censorship test.

Fast and Testimony Meeting is a time for members to "bear heartfelt testimonies and to relate faith-promoting experiences." (Handbook 2 18.2.3)

A testimony, according to Elder Bednar is "what we know to be true in our minds and in our hearts by the witness of the Holy Ghost." (More Dilligent and Concerned at Home, October 2009 General Conference, emphasis mine)

[JulieM]

16 minutes ago, cinepro said:

But when someone you know (and respect and/or love) becomes a voice for these issues, you have to make a choice.  Now everyone in that ward that previously felt those who experience same-sex attraction should not have the legal right to get married (and still don't have the moral right) have to choose between that belief and little Savannah. 

Some youth were talking about this when I dropped my son off at an activity.  They'd all watched the video and thought it was awful that she wasn't allowed to finish.   They seem to be choosing Savannah and were talking about it at the activity, so more wanted to watch it now.  I guess it's being shared on Facebook by many youth too.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JulieM

[rockpond]

This is just a harbinger of what is coming as a result of the Church's current position on homosexuality.  We can't tell people that it is okay to be gay but not okay to talk about it.

This girl was bearing her testimony of her divine nature and her belief in the plan of loving Heavenly Parents.  The stake presidency member was wrong to ask her to sit down.

More of these types of testimonies will likely come.

[Jeanne]

What courage.  This young girl will make a wonderful woman. I wish her the very best and hope that this experience does not hinder a voice that is truth to her..Not false.  God made her.

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Fast and Testimony Meeting is a time for members to "bear heartfelt testimonies and to relate faith-promoting experiences." (Handbook 2 18.2.3)

A testimony, according to Elder Bednar is "what we know to be true in our minds and in our hearts by the witness of the Holy Ghost." (More Dilligent and Concerned at Home, October 2009 General Conference, emphasis mine)

Seems like an accurate description of what this Beehive was doing.