MormonsandGays.org is updated...

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

This is so refreshing. It's even put out by the church I believe. 

 

Beautiful.  Thank you for posting it.  It's wonderful to see the church put out messages like this one that are so different than where we were a decade ago!  Can't wait to see what the next decade will bring.

[Jeanne]

This was really good Tacenda. 

[HappyJackWagon]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

Beautiful.  Thank you for posting it.  It's wonderful to see the church put out messages like this one that are so different than where we were a decade ago!  Can't wait to see what the next decade will bring.

I was pretty surprised to see that video last night. I think it's clear the parents didn't initially handle the news of their son coming out very well, but it gives hope that things can get better. It's nice to see a video from the church that recognizes the challenge and promotes loving family relationship despite LGBT issues.

The cynical side of me is surprised that the church would allow a narrative about a gay person stepping away from the church to be part of their message unless they agree that stepping away is often the best solution for LGBT individuals.

[Calm]

Has it been confirmed the Church produced it?  Haven't watch it yet.

[HappyJackWagon]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Has it been confirmed the Church produced it?  Haven't watch it yet.

At the very end it shows the church logo page they put at the end of every video so it looks like it.

I was pretty skeptical until I saw that logo

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by HappyJackWagon

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Has it been confirmed the Church produced it?  Haven't watch it yet.

It does have the Church logo at the end.  And LDS Living also states that it was made by the Church:  http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Video-Gay-Son-Comes-Out-to-Family-Their-Reaction-Is-Not-Perfect-but-Their-Love-Is/s/84842?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=email

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Has it been confirmed the Church produced it?  Haven't watch it yet.

It's from the Mormon Channel, doesn't that mean it is affiliated with the church?

[rockpond]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I was pretty surprised to see that video last night. I think it's clear the parents didn't initially handle the news of their son coming out very well, but it gives hope that things can get better. It's nice to see a video from the church that recognizes the challenge and promotes loving family relationship despite LGBT issues.

The cynical side of me is surprised that the church would allow a narrative about a gay person stepping away from the church to be part of their message unless they agree that stepping away is often the best solution for LGBT individuals.

Yeah... it was a bit surprising to me as well but I think that's kind of the corollary to the Nov 2015 policy -- that gay people may need to step away from the church because it won't be a healthy place for them or their children.

I like that it shows (in an obviously brief way) the process that I think many LDS parents have gone (or will go) through regarding a gay loved one.  Initially, they react in a way that is very consistent with past church teachings, then they let go of those as they decide to love and accept.  Very real and touching.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, rockpond said:

Yeah... it was a bit surprising to me as well but I think that's kind of the corollary to the Nov 2015 policy -- that gay people may need to step away from the church because it won't be a healthy place for them or their children.

I like that it shows (in an obviously brief way) the process that I think many LDS parents have gone (or will go) through regarding a gay loved one.  Initially, they react in a way that is very consistent with past church teachings, then they let go of those as they decide to love and accept.  Very real and touching.

I'm very happy with it. I think it will save many lives. 

[stemelbow]

How the Church is changing due to pressure from the outside.  In the future we'll see a much different and more accepting Church. 

[rockpond]

21 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

How the Church is changing due to pressure from the outside.  In the future we'll see a much different and more accepting Church. 

I don't think the Church is changing due to pressure from outside... I think this is coming from internal pressure.

[stemelbow]

46 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I don't think the Church is changing due to pressure from outside... I think this is coming from internal pressure.

I agree.  Probably a combination of the two. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It's from the Mormon Channel, doesn't that mean it is affiliated with the church?

Yep.

[california boy]

I cried through the whole video.  If only that video would have been around when I came out to my family some 17 years ago, what a different life I may have had.  My family except one sister basically had nothing to do with me for 15 years.  15 years.  Never invited to a family event.  Never invited to a baptism.  Never a missionary farewell, Never a Christmas dinner.  Nothing.  On rare occasions, I would visit some of my family members to try and reconnect.  But basically it was a one sided effort.  I began to accept that I was never going to be a part of the family ever again.  I would just be that son, brother, that was lost.  

About two years ago, I was going to be at a meeting near my fathers house.  I told him I would like to see him, but I would be with my partner who was also going to the meeting.  So if that was a problem, I would understand.  But he told me to come by and bring my partner.  The connection went well.  My dad really warmed up to my partner.  They actually talked more than I did.  

That was two years ago.  It has made a big difference.  It is like he gave my siblings permission to have a relationship with me again.  For the first time, I am getting Christmas cards from family members.  They helped me with a service project I wanted to do.  And me and my partner were invited to a sibling get together.  One sister in law told me she needed to talk to me about something.  I kinda freaked out inside of what she might say.  But she surprised me and apologized how she has been treating me for the past 15 years.  Just this week, my other sister apologized and told me that so much has changed.  She is over issues, and wants her brother back in her life.  

It is not all roses.  There are still some family members that think I should not be a part of the family and they have made that quite clear.  Actually it is the sister in laws that are trying to keep me away from family activities.  I wasn't invited to a week long sibling vacation that my father is organizing.  It is painful, but hey after 17 years of this, I have developed a pretty thick skin.  

In some ways, I see a parallel with how the church has treated it's relationship with gay members and how both my family and the one in the video handled having a gay son.  17 years ago, the church wanted nothing to do with anyone who was gay.  Their only solution was to make them choose to be straight.  Then the church realized that being gay is not a choice.  So the policy was to tell gay members to never have a deep relationship with anyone all their lives.  Nothing.  No dating.  No kissing.  No marriage.  Nothing.  This video is a big deal.  For the first time, the church is realizing that gays can have a rich and fulfilling life.  Unfortunately still not within the church.  But hey.  Baby steps.  Like my sister said this week.  A lot has changed.  There is a greater understanding of things.

I am not sure I should send this video link to my family members.  I would love to have them see it.  But since I have such little contact with them, I don't want everything that I talk to them about is this whole gay issue.  There is way more to me than just being gay.  I think they are just beginning to remember that.  Any advice?  

 

[Daniel2]

I love the new video as well and re-shared it on FB after an actively-LDS (and straight) cousin of mine posted it on her FB feed.

Kudos to the church for authorizing it through their official channels.  Very refreshing!

[rockpond]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

I cried through the whole video.  If only that video would have been around when I came out to my family some 17 years ago, what a different life I may have had.  My family except one sister basically had nothing to do with me for 15 years.  15 years.  Never invited to a family event.  Never invited to a baptism.  Never a missionary farewell, Never a Christmas dinner.  Nothing.  On rare occasions, I would visit some of my family members to try and reconnect.  But basically it was a one sided effort.  I began to accept that I was never going to be a part of the family ever again.  I would just be that son, brother, that was lost.  

About two years ago, I was going to be at a meeting near my fathers house.  I told him I would like to see him, but I would be with my partner who was also going to the meeting.  So if that was a problem, I would understand.  But he told me to come by and bring my partner.  The connection went well.  My dad really warmed up to my partner.  They actually talked more than I did.  

That was two years ago.  It has made a big difference.  It is like he gave my siblings permission to have a relationship with me again.  For the first time, I am getting Christmas cards from family members.  They helped me with a service project I wanted to do.  And me and my partner were invited to a sibling get together.  One sister in law told me she needed to talk to me about something.  I kinda freaked out inside of what she might say.  But she surprised me and apologized how she has been treating me for the past 15 years.  Just this week, my other sister apologized and told me that so much has changed.  She is over issues, and wants her brother back in her life.  

It is not all roses.  There are still some family members that think I should not be a part of the family and they have made that quite clear.  Actually it is the sister in laws that are trying to keep me away from family activities.  I wasn't invited to a week long sibling vacation that my father is organizing.  It is painful, but hey after 17 years of this, I have developed a pretty thick skin.  

In some ways, I see a parallel with how the church has treated it's relationship with gay members and how both my family and the one in the video handled having a gay son.  17 years ago, the church wanted nothing to do with anyone who was gay.  Their only solution was to make them choose to be straight.  Then the church realized that being gay is not a choice.  So the policy was to tell gay members to never have a deep relationship with anyone all their lives.  Nothing.  No dating.  No kissing.  No marriage.  Nothing.  This video is a big deal.  For the first time, the church is realizing that gays can have a rich and fulfilling life.  Unfortunately still not within the church.  But hey.  Baby steps.  Like my sister said this week.  A lot has changed.  There is a greater understanding of things.

I am not sure I should send this video link to my family members.  I would love to have them see it.  But since I have such little contact with them, I don't want everything that I talk to them about is this whole gay issue.  There is way more to me than just being gay.  I think they are just beginning to remember that.  Any advice?  

 

Yes... a lot has changed.  The fact that so many members are surprised to find out at the end that it's a church produced video shows that things are changing.  Baby steps are still progress but the lives negatively impacted by this slow progress (like yours) make me sad.  Thanks for your post here.  

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

Yes... a lot has changed.  The fact that so many members are surprised to find out at the end that it's a church produced video shows that things are changing.  Baby steps are still progress but the lives negatively impacted by this slow progress (like yours) make me sad.  Thanks for your post here.  

A moment's investigation shows that the video is part of the mormonandgay.org website. Apparently it's a new addition; I don't recall seeing it before, and, it would seem, others here don't either.

I would caution, however, against reading too much into its inclusion about whether or how much the Church is changing, considering the totality of the content that has been posted and remains on the website and elsewhere with regard to the Church's position on homosexual behavior, including this text:

 

Quote

 

Central to God’s plan, the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman is an integral teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and will not change:

“As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

“Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman” (Handbook 2: Administering the Church, 21.4.10).

 

 

 

 

The message from the video seems to be to continue to love and embrace family members who come out as gay, regardless of the choices they make (a message that really isn't new, as the Church has expressed it before). One would expect a similar message from the Church with regard to continuing to love family members who violate the law of chastity in a heterosexual way. That couldn't be construed to mean the Church is coming around to acceptance of heterosexual transgression.

In a video clip called "Purpose of This Website," Elder D. Todd Christofferson explains regarding the video vignettes that are featured on the website:
 

Quote

 

You'll see in these experiences that some people state what you could call the position of the Church -- it coincides perfectly -- and others not. But again, they're all very authentic. And as we listen to one another and strive to understand, things can only get better.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

A moment's investigation shows that the video is part of the mormonandgay.org website. Apparently it's a new addition; I don't recall seeing it before, and, it would seem, others here don't either.

I would caution, however, against reading too much into its inclusion about whether or how much the Church is changing, considering the totality of the content that has been posted and remains on the website and elsewhere with regard to the Church's position on homosexual behavior, including this text:

 

 

The message from the video seems to be to continue to love and embrace family members who come out as gay, regardless of the choices they make (a message that really isn't new, as the Church has expressed it before). One would expect a similar message from the Church with regard to continuing to love family members who violate the law of chastity in a heterosexual way. That couldn't be construed to mean the Church is coming around to acceptance of heterosexual transgression.

In a video clip called "Purpose of This Website," Elder D. Todd Christofferson explains regarding the video vignettes that are featured on the website:
 

 

Public sentiment seems to disagree with your perception that this video represents nothing new. 

But, feel free to show something from the church that expresses the same idea of a family rejecting what they had been taught about homosexuality and then loving and warmly embracing their son (openly living as a gay man) and his partner.

While I agree that MormonandGay.lds.org teaches love and acceptance, it hasn't quite taken it to the point that this video does. 

And, the video stands in contrast to the old Oaks/Wickman interview which was our de facto policy on homosexuality for so long. 

[rockpond]

 

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

That couldn't be construed to mean the Church is coming around to acceptance of heterosexual transgression.

I don't see anyone here (or elsewhere) who is suggesting such.  Instead, as you quoted from Elder Christofferson:  "... as we listen to one another and strive to understand, things can only get better."

Edited March 18, 2017 by rockpond

[BlueDreams]

19 hours ago, rockpond said:

Yes... a lot has changed.  The fact that so many members are surprised to find out at the end that it's a church produced video shows that things are changing.  Baby steps are still progress but the lives negatively impacted by this slow progress (like yours) make me sad.  Thanks for your post here.  

Well, I'm surprised that people found this surprising that it was a church produced video. It feels a little like the generational gap that I sometimes feel when I read the board. I respect CB's experiences and pain, but gratefully that story is a shrinking narrative. I think of my own family that, as I've mentioned, is pretty heavily very very conservative. In some ways the Makintosh family reminds me of them. But with the 2 gay cousins so far in the mix of our family, being cut off isn't what's happening. Some are still insensitive and could use some help with that. Navigating this for them is still not easy and can come with pain.

By the reaction, I was expecting something more mind-boggling or shocking. But this isn't it. It's wonderful, it's open, and it's frank. But it fits the generational shifts I already see happening all around me. It's not necessarily a shift in doctrine but a focus on how to best live ones faith, which includes living and loving those who may not live and love the same as one would hope. It also reminds me of a previous story that was on the mormon and gay website about a man who was Native American  who had left the church as well and his wife and how they work things with that.  At least to me, I feel like they're trying to show a range of stories and experiences to foster hope. Still asserting the truth of the Gospel and the faith's tenets while acknowledging that it's implementation in one's life can be messy, individual, and may not look the same today as it will tomorrow or did yesterday. But that no matter the circumstance, God can guide us as to how best to show Christ-like love and faith. 

 

But I quite like the video....and just about all the videos that I've seen on this.

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited March 18, 2017 by BlueDreams

[Rain]

On Friday, March 17, 2017 at 2:24 PM, california boy said:

I cried through the whole video.  If only that video would have been around when I came out to my family some 17 years ago, what a different life I may have had.  My family except one sister basically had nothing to do with me for 15 years.  15 years.  Never invited to a family event.  Never invited to a baptism.  Never a missionary farewell, Never a Christmas dinner.  Nothing.  On rare occasions, I would visit some of my family members to try and reconnect.  But basically it was a one sided effort.  I began to accept that I was never going to be a part of the family ever again.  I would just be that son, brother, that was lost.  

About two years ago, I was going to be at a meeting near my fathers house.  I told him I would like to see him, but I would be with my partner who was also going to the meeting.  So if that was a problem, I would understand.  But he told me to come by and bring my partner.  The connection went well.  My dad really warmed up to my partner.  They actually talked more than I did.  

That was two years ago.  It has made a big difference.  It is like he gave my siblings permission to have a relationship with me again.  For the first time, I am getting Christmas cards from family members.  They helped me with a service project I wanted to do.  And me and my partner were invited to a sibling get together.  One sister in law told me she needed to talk to me about something.  I kinda freaked out inside of what she might say.  But she surprised me and apologized how she has been treating me for the past 15 years.  Just this week, my other sister apologized and told me that so much has changed.  She is over issues, and wants her brother back in her life.  

It is not all roses.  There are still some family members that think I should not be a part of the family and they have made that quite clear.  Actually it is the sister in laws that are trying to keep me away from family activities.  I wasn't invited to a week long sibling vacation that my father is organizing.  It is painful, but hey after 17 years of this, I have developed a pretty thick skin.  

In some ways, I see a parallel with how the church has treated it's relationship with gay members and how both my family and the one in the video handled having a gay son.  17 years ago, the church wanted nothing to do with anyone who was gay.  Their only solution was to make them choose to be straight.  Then the church realized that being gay is not a choice.  So the policy was to tell gay members to never have a deep relationship with anyone all their lives.  Nothing.  No dating.  No kissing.  No marriage.  Nothing.  This video is a big deal.  For the first time, the church is realizing that gays can have a rich and fulfilling life.  Unfortunately still not within the church.  But hey.  Baby steps.  Like my sister said this week.  A lot has changed.  There is a greater understanding of things.

I am not sure I should send this video link to my family members.  I would love to have them see it.  But since I have such little contact with them, I don't want everything that I talk to them about is this whole gay issue.  There is way more to me than just being gay.  I think they are just beginning to remember that.  Any advice?  

 

If you send it then send it just to your one sister. Then if she feels good about it she can share it with the rest of the family. 

I think it is wise to recognize that you don't want everything focused on gay issues. While this video family is not avoiding the son being gay, while they love and accept him, I imagine it is still not easy to deal with him making choices they feel will hurt him. Sometimes you need space from that pain and letting them see how much more there is to you than being gay will not only give them that space,  but let's them have a richer, fuller life with you.

So because of that and because some in your family, from what it sounds like,  may take it the wrong way coming from you, I would let someone else share it.  Coming from you it may be one more thing to fight against, putting them in the wrong spirit to listen to it.

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 7:04 AM, rockpond said:

Public sentiment seems to disagree with your perception that this video represents nothing new. 

But, feel free to show something from the church that expresses the same idea of a family rejecting what they had been taught about homosexuality and then loving and warmly embracing their son (openly living as a gay man) and his partner.

While I agree that MormonandGay.lds.org teaches love and acceptance, it hasn't quite taken it to the point that this video does. 

And, the video stands in contrast to the old Oaks/Wickman interview which was our de facto policy on homosexuality for so long. 

I also don't feel the concept is new. It is all throughout our scriptures. It seems to me that often what is missing in our lives is how we can apply doctrines. Sometimes people don't understand the doctrine well enough to apply it well in our lives. Sometimes people just can't figure out the ends and outs of the applications. The video doesn't share any new doctrine or principles, but it does show a much better application of those doctrines than many have understood before. 

It's interesting how this video has helped me. Someone I am close to texted me about a new restaurant this weekend, telling me it would be a good place to go on a date with my husband. I loved that the person was trying to connected me. What I didn't love was how much money they were showing they were spending when I know they are hurting for money. 

So the principles: love each other. Spend money wisely. The application was hard, for me, on this one. If I show gratitude for the recommendation am I showing support for the poor money management? While I can thank him and that is all it means, experience has shown me that he very well could take my nonexistent hint that he managing money ok. 

After watching the video I asked myself, "what is the important thing right now?" It is strengthening that connection between us. (In THIS incidence).  Money management, may, or may not, become more important after the connection is stronger. Basically, the video helped me apply the things I already knew in a better way than I was doing before. 

So the video ideas ARE new and they are NOT new. It just depends on how well you know the doctrine and how well you have been able to apply it.  

[rockpond]

30 minutes ago, Rain said:

I also don't feel the concept is new. It is all throughout our scriptures. It seems to me that often what is missing in our lives is how we can apply doctrines. Sometimes people don't understand the doctrine well enough to apply it well in our lives. Sometimes people just can't figure out the ends and outs of the applications. The video doesn't share any new doctrine or principles, but it does show a much better application of those doctrines than many have understood before.  

Correct, loving one another is not a new doctrine.  But the video teaches and application of that doctrine that is new (for the church) when compared to official statements of a decade ago (see Oaks/Wickman interview).

[MormonVideoGame]

On 3/17/2017 at 6:16 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

I was pretty surprised to see that video last night.

Why? The LDS church is suppose to be the true Christian church. Christians are suppose to love and respect. Does the church really need youtube videos? Don't LDS members have the gift of the Holy Ghost? 

On 3/18/2017 at 8:38 AM, BlueDreams said:

Well, I'm surprised that people found this surprising that it was a church produced video.

me too 

Edited March 19, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[california boy]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

If you send it then send it just to your one sister. Then if she feels good about it she can share it with the rest of the family. 

I think it is wise to recognize that you don't want everything focused on gay issues. While this video family is not avoiding the son being gay, while they love and accept him, I imagine it is still not easy to deal with him making choices they feel will hurt him. Sometimes you need space from that pain and letting them see how much more there is to you than being gay will not only give them that space,  but let's them have a richer, fuller life with you.

So because of that and because some in your family, from what it sounds like,  may take it the wrong way coming from you, I would let someone else share it.  Coming from you it may be one more thing to fight against, putting them in the wrong spirit to listen to it.

I am willing to give it a try.  I will let you know how it goes.

[Jeanne]

Just now, california boy said:

I am willing to give it a try.  I will let you know how it goes.

I hope you do..big hugs to you because the steps that may seem easy for others..makes you think twice..it is because of the great love you have for family..but hey..this could open up a whole new door.  Just know you are loved here.