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[california boy]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

I also don't feel the concept is new. It is all throughout our scriptures. It seems to me that often what is missing in our lives is how we can apply doctrines. Sometimes people don't understand the doctrine well enough to apply it well in our lives. Sometimes people just can't figure out the ends and outs of the applications. The video doesn't share any new doctrine or principles, but it does show a much better application of those doctrines than many have understood before. 

It's interesting how this video has helped me. Someone I am close to texted me about a new restaurant this weekend, telling me it would be a good place to go on a date with my husband. I loved that the person was trying to connected me. What I didn't love was how much money they were showing they were spending when I know they are hurting for money. 

So the principles: love each other. Spend money wisely. The application was hard, for me, on this one. If I show gratitude for the recommendation am I showing support for the poor money management? While I can thank him and that is all it means, experience has shown me that he very well could take my nonexistent hint that he managing money ok. 

After watching the video I asked myself, "what is the important thing right now?" It is strengthening that connection between us. (In THIS incidence).  Money management, may, or may not, become more important after the connection is stronger. Basically, the video helped me apply the things I already knew in a better way than I was doing before. 

So the video ideas ARE new and they are NOT new. It just depends on how well you know the doctrine and how well you have been able to apply it.  

You are right.  There is no new doctrine presented in the video.  BUT it is the first time the church has shown how to be kind, loving, chairatible and leave the judgement to God.  That is big.  And it is a big departure from the cultural war against gays that the church has been launching for the past 10 years.  I often wondered how my family could possibly treat me the way they did.  I mean after spending a lifetime of sitting through 3 hours a week on Sundays, can't they have even a bit of compassion towards me?

The Mormon church has a reputation of being one of the most unaccepting anti gay churches in America because of political war against gay marriage, calling them apostates and not allowing their children baptism.  I can't even imagine how different the church would now be viewed if they had started with this message of love and compassion towards gays instead of a battle to take away the civil rights of gay couples.  

[california boy]

45 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I hope you do..big hugs to you because the steps that may seem easy for others..makes you think twice..it is because of the great love you have for family..but hey..this could open up a whole new door.  Just know you are loved here.

That is very kind of you.

[rockpond]

52 minutes ago, california boy said:

You are right.  There is no new doctrine presented in the video.  BUT it is the first time the church has shown how to be kind, loving, chairatible and leave the judgement to God.  That is big.  And it is a big departure from the cultural war against gays that the church has been launching for the past 10 years.  I often wondered how my family could possibly treat me the way they did.  I mean after spending a lifetime of sitting through 3 hours a week on Sundays, can't they have even a bit of compassion towards me?

The Mormon church has a reputation of being one of the most unaccepting anti gay churches in America because of political war against gay marriage, calling them apostates and not allowing their children baptism.  I can't even imagine how different the church would now be viewed if they had started with this message of love and compassion towards gays instead of a battle to take away the civil rights of gay couples.  

Yes, imagine where we might be as a church if instead of spearheading a massive campaign to take away marriage rights from gay couples, the church had instead produced and promoted this video and others like it?

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

You are right.  There is no new doctrine presented in the video.  BUT it is the first time the church has shown how to be kind, loving, chairatible and leave the judgement to God.  That is big.  And it is a big departure from the cultural war against gays that the church has been launching for the past 10 years.  I often wondered how my family could possibly treat me the way they did.  I mean after spending a lifetime of sitting through 3 hours a week on Sundays, can't they have even a bit of compassion towards me?

The Mormon church has a reputation of being one of the most unaccepting anti gay churches in America because of political war against gay marriage, calling them apostates and not allowing their children baptism.  I can't even imagine how different the church would now be viewed if they had started with this message of love and compassion towards gays instead of a battle to take away the civil rights of gay couples.  

It is my hope that the church becomes more accepting towards different cultures and lifestyles with the idea that final judgement will be be with God.  There is no reason for us to judge.  

[VideoGameJunkie]

38 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Yes, imagine where we might be as a church if instead of spearheading a massive campaign to take away marriage rights from gay couples, the church had instead produced and promoted this video and others like it?

Do you think the church should allow gays to marry in the temple and be accepting because I don't think they should do that.

[california boy]

35 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Do you think the church should allow gays to marry in the temple and be accepting because I don't think they should do that.

I don't think that is what we are talking about.  We are talking about how the church treats gays.  Not whether doctrine should change.

[HappyJackWagon]

14 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Why? The LDS church is suppose to be the true Christian church. Christians are suppose to love and respect. Does the church really need youtube videos? Don't LDS members have the gift of the Holy Ghost? 

 

Why was I surprised? Because the church is "supposed" to show love and respect yet it often fails in this, particularly towards the LGBT+ community.

Does the church need uTube videos- If prophets and apostles are unwilling to speak directly about the issue to make things better, then I would suggest that, yes, the church needs to utilize media to help change the culture and improve doctrinal understanding. I'm not overstating the change here but this is a shift. The problem is the church often plays both sides and sends mixed messages. This may just be another example of that.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

9 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Do you think the church should allow gays to marry in the temple and be accepting because I don't think they should do that.

Regardless of whether or not the church changes it's position on temple marriage (I don't expect anything this century), they could and should easily adopt a stance that encourages marriage and families. It seems quite silly to think that the church is anti-marriage and family when it comes to LGBT individuals. In fact it's absurd. Their behavior and rhetoric is based in fear. For a church that teaches marriage and family as a great source of joy and purpose it makes no sense for them to require something different from a certain population of people. They'll come around on this much sooner than on the temple issue.

[rockpond]

10 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Do you think the church should allow gays to marry in the temple and be accepting because I don't think they should do that.

Yes I think that gay couples should marry in the temple because I believe it is God's will.  That's my personal belief.  But, each time in the past that the church has made significant changes to temple marriage practices, it seemed to require both external changes and revelation.  I assume that this is no different. 

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, rockpond said:

Yes, imagine where we might be as a church if instead of spearheading a massive campaign to take away marriage rights from gay couples, the church had instead produced and promoted this video and others like it?

I've no proof, but I think some lives would have been saved.

[Jeanne]

Just now, Tacenda said:

I've no proof, but I think some lives would have been saved.

i do too.  Even if one parent could take away the message presented on this video..on how to react and still believe..would have given just enough hope for another day.

[Tacenda]

12 hours ago, Jeanne said:

i do too.  Even if one parent could take away the message presented on this video..on how to react and still believe..would have given just enough hope for another day.

I'm so happy that my brother-in-law and his wife handled it well when their son came out as gay. There would be times when they didn't know if they'd find him alive or dead in his room after his attempts at suicide. Their son finally opened up to them, and luckily he was accepted, of course they side with the church on the acting on it, not being right. I'm so sad about california boy's experience. I don't think the church would ever condone that behaviour thank goodness. But apparently, to me, some things the church leaders may have said in the past could have contributed to their actions. 

Our last family reunion, my brother-in-law's son brought a friend, I guess his partner, and it went very well. I was proud of all the in-laws for their kindness and friendliness toward him. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm so happy that my brother-in-law and his wife handled it well when their son came out as gay. There would be times when they didn't know if they'd find him alive or dead in his room after his attempts at suicide. Their son finally opened up to them, and luckily he was accepted, of course they side with the church on the acting on it, not being right. I'm so sad about california boy's experience. I don't think the church would ever condone that behaviour thank goodness. But apparently, to me, some things the church leaders may have said in the past could have contributed to their actions. 

Our last family reunion, by brother-in-law's son brought a friend, I guess his partner, and it went very well. I was proud of all the in-laws for their kindness and friendliness toward him. 

Wow Tacenda..how it is all handled is key..love and acceptance is everything. 

[california boy]

9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm so happy that my brother-in-law and his wife handled it well when their son came out as gay. There would be times when they didn't know if they'd find him alive or dead in his room after his attempts at suicide. Their son finally opened up to them, and luckily he was accepted, of course they side with the church on the acting on it, not being right. I'm so sad about california boy's experience. I don't think the church would ever condone that behaviour thank goodness. But apparently, to me, some things the church leaders may have said in the past could have contributed to their actions. 

Our last family reunion, by brother-in-law's son brought a friend, I guess his partner, and it went very well. I was proud of all the in-laws for their kindness and friendliness toward him. 

My family was church leaders.  My father has been a bishop 3 times, served on high counsels, served two missions etc.  All of my brothers have been bishops, some of them even during this time period that I was not allowed to be a part of the family.  So yeah, this video might have made a huge difference.  Because they all thought they were doing what the church wanted and expected them to do.  They are not a family that would go against church direction.  I am just one of thousands.

[Daniel2]

When I came out, my entire family was (and continues to be, to this day) very devout, highly active, conservatively-orthodox LDS members. 

I am grateful that my parents responded very much as the parents in this video did--with immediate affirmations of love and emphasizing family ties, no matter what else happened in the future.  My dad had served in a variety of church leadership throughout my life, both as EQ President and Branch President on numerous occasions (we grew up overseas and church was usually smaller Branch congregations made up of US Military members and local English-speakers within the mission field).  At the time I came out (in my early 30's, after serving a mission myself, graduating from BYU, marrying in the SL Temple, and having three children of my own), my parents and I weren't living near/local to each other, so I broke the news on a one-on-one phone call to my father.  I told him first, because I knew Dad would take it well, but was more concerned about how my Mom would handle it.  After I said the words, "Dad, I'm gay," his first words where, "Son, I don't have all the answers, but know that I love you and you will ALWAYS be my son, no matter what." 

I was more concerned about Mom because her entire identity as a homemaker and mother revolved around raising five sons to be upstanding members of the church, serve missions, marry in the temple, and endure in faithfulness to the end (something she often expressed gratitude for from the pulpit for during testimony meetings), and I was worried that she wouldn't take the news very well.  After asking for my Dad's input on how to tell her, I followed Dad's suggestion to have him break the news to her instead of me telling her directly, giving him some time to discuss it with her so she could process it, and having me ready for a phone call from her when Mom was ready to talk.  Although she was also very loving, she was a little more expressive of her hope that I would find answers to "fix" what she felt was "broken."  It took some time to process, but she also eventually came around to seeing that this wasn't a choice I had made and that the years of therapy I'd already endured didn't find anything that even needed "fixing."  When I finally met my husband, Dad was in advanced stages of a terminal illness, and my husband (who was also raised LDS, served a mission and in bishoprics, and an accomplished singer) and I would often visit Dad in the final years of his life and sing hymns to him in his care home.  Mom still regularly welcomes us in her house, as well as visiting us at our home, going out to dinners and plays together, and even attending family gatherings on my husbands' side (his family all lives locally, while I am the only child that resides in the same state as Mom, now).  My husband and I haven't asked her to change any of her beliefs, and she doesn't push anything on us, either.  Loving each other despite our differences of belief is easy, because there is a foundational love and respect that predated my coming out, anyway.

My four brothers were a different story.

Two of my four brothers had previously and were currently serving as branch presidents, bishops, and as stake president.  Unlike CaliforniaBoy, however, those two brothers serving in LDS leadership positions responded in the MOST loving, compassionate, accepting way.  At the time, I was clear that I was also leaving the church and was hopeful to someday find a husband to share my life with.  They both immediately responded in love and acceptance, told me that I was always welcome in their homes, and that they'd love to meet and spend family time with a partner, should I ever meet someone.  They both live out of state.  One of them chose to come to our wedding, the other sent a card welcoming my husband to the family.  In the last 2 years, both of these brothers, their wives, and all their children (ranging in age from 6 to 26) have welcomed us, shared family dinners, played games, gone to movies, etc. with both my husband and I.  My nieces and nephews are particularly fond of both my husband and I and often clamor to be on our team when playing games.

My other two brothers initially took a diametrically opposite approach.   Although they were both kind when I first came out, the moment it became clear that I was leaving the church and pursing a future relationship with a man, they terminated any and all contact.  They shared with me, our parents, and my two other brothers their objections and refusal to attend any family gatherings at which my husband and I would be present, refused to acknowledge him or even my legal (last) name change after my marriage, and had many discussions with my Mom and other brothers warning them that I was a bad influence on them and was attempting to 'turn' my Mom, especially, away from the church.  These brothers have been very black and white on the issue... to them, allowing themselves or their children to interact with me and my husband seems to be nothing less than the first step on the road to condoning sin and/or a potentially dangerous influence on their children. 

One brother and his family have since softened his refusal and has since welcomed us into their home and we've had increased interaction with he and his family, now that his children are mostly out of the home (their youngest is almost done with HS).

The last brother, in particular, has remained mostly resistive and deeply concerned about his own boys' development to the point of bringing two Christian (one of whom is LDS) authors' book he was reading to Mom's house while he was staying there for a family reunion called Encouraging Heterosexuality: Helping Children Develop a Traditional Sexual Orientation, the description of which states, "This book offers a unique approach which unapologetically demonstrates how faith, tradition and science are complementary in the search for truth about what is best for children. Their message is simple and clear: Parents can prefer and encourage heterosexuality in their children and can do so without disrespect or criticism for those who believe or differently. Parents will find practical advice as well as cutting edge research to reinforce traditional sexual views.")  I was already familiar with that book, and personally believe it to be an outdated and particularly unjust/misguided indictment of parents and individuals, insidiously blaming them for causing their kids (or themselves) to be gay.  Thankfully, it's no longer available, at least at Deseret Book).  This brother has only had brief interaction with my husband at a family funeral, and remains committed to the idea that either he and his family or I and my husband will attend family reunions and gatherings--but he refuses to attend, and forbids his wife and children to attend, if my husband and I do.

Mom has been heartbroken at the division this has caused in the family, especially in light of Dad's passing early last year.  It's been really challenging for her, and my other brothers don't know how to help, either.  She has spend many hours on her knees, crying, asking for help with how to help my brother find compassion and empathy.  In the end, each of us make choices for our lives, and ultimately must surrender control in the face of personal agency.  As parents, perhaps that is the most painful lesson we all ultimately learn, like it or not.

What may seem ironic to some on the outside is that my father's reaction and that of my two closest brothers are those that have been and continue to be in leadership positions within the church.  But that isn't a surprise to me, and I don't imagine will come as a surprise to those Latter-day Saints who strive for charity, kindness, compassion, and to reserve judgment of others who are different.  Mom and I both feel that it's expressly BECAUSE of my Dad's and two brother's experiences serving as branch presidents, bishops and stake presidents--NOT in SPITE of those experiences--that have led Dad and my two accepting brothers to make my husband and I feel welcome.  Being a bishop exposes so many men to the struggles we all face, and, ironically, despite being called "as judges in Israel," often help such leaders develop compassion, empathy, and understanding.  Their experiences have led them to what I consider to be Christ-like examples of seeking for the spirit of the law, rather than the Pharisaical letter of it.

In the end, while I understand that many here aren't surprised by the new video's message and don't feel it has changed much, in my personal and familial experience, it's a HUGE departure from the Oakman/Wicks interview many years ago (which is what my brother has advocated of, in defense of his approach).  My brother tends to take his cues directly from church leadership and is highly suspicious of any non-official influences.  I hope he will someday see this video and contemplate its significance. 

I would have welcomed it's explicit and clear message of acceptance and love and open doors many years ago, but I'm truly grateful for it, even today.

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Daniel2

[Buckeye]

Daniel2, I wish I could give more reps points to your last comment. Simply outstanding. I particularly am touched by your experience that members in leadership roles gain empathy. That's been my experience too. It's not 100% guaranteed, but there is a strong uptick in compassion from serving in such callings. All the best to your family.