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MormonsandGays.org is updated...

rockpond

By rockpond
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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
Posted

The church has replaced the MormonsandGays.org website.  If you type that URL now, you are redirected to mormonandgay.lds.org.

The new site sits clearly under the LDS.org banner so there is no mistaking it for a church publication.  For me, it seems easier to navigate and matches the style of the main LDS.org page.  I haven't gone through all of the content here but I thought I'd open a thread in case people want to review and comment.

The "Beliefs" section looks very comprehensive.  The "Understanding" section addresses, among other things, depression and suicide, with an outside link to learn about warning signs.

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stemelbow Grand Master

stemelbow

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The church has replaced the MormonsandGays.org website.  If you type that URL now, you are redirected to mormonandgay.lds.org.

The new site sits clearly under the LDS.org banner so there is no mistaking it for a church publication.  For me, it seems easier to navigate and matches the style of the main LDS.org page.  I haven't gone through all of the content here but I thought I'd open a thread in case people want to review and comment.

The "Beliefs" section looks very comprehensive.  The "Understanding" section addresses, among other things, depression and suicide, with an outside link to learn about warning signs.

I don't see anything talking about the policy change.  Is there some explanation added about it?  You'd think that would be a good idea. 

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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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Posted
2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I don't see anything talking about the policy change.  Is there some explanation added about it?  You'd think that would be a good idea. 

No... I think this site represents the "outreach" side of the discussion.  Trying to help those who are gay and want to stay, offering resources to leaders and loved ones, clarifying church doctrine, and sharing stories (which is really important for those who feel alone).

Since the policy was never meant to go public, I don't think it will ever make an appearance here.

What I do wish is that they would put a link to this new page on the main page of LDS.org.

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Daniel2 Grand Master

Daniel2

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, rockpond said:

What I do wish is that they would put a link to this new page on the main page of LDS.org.

Based on my experience within the church, I don't think the church will post a link on lds.org for quite some time to issues relating to homosexuality.  It's an issue the church has historically been reluctant to confront, and certainly would rather not advertise.  I've long suspected the reason is that they don't want members, and perhaps especially youth, to click on a link and start questioning their own sexuality, or the church's stance.  Rather, by leaving it as a 'searchable' field, those that are looking for answers can find it, but those that aren't won't accidentally stumble across a potentially troublesome link.

I've started exploring the site (even though I'd rather not), since I know my devout LDS family will likely be reading it, and I'd like to stay current with what they're learning from their Faith about my sexuality and marriage. 

Both positives and negatives are already being discussed at length on my Facebook feed, so the internet is aware... I'm curious to hear others' reactions to the updated site.

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Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Based on my experience within the church, I don't think the church will post a link on lds.org for quite some time to issues relating to homosexuality.  It's an issue the church has historically been reluctant to confront, and certainly would rather not advertise.  I've long suspected the reason is that they don't want members, and perhaps especially youth, to click on a link and start questioning their own sexuality, or the church's stance.

Your insinuation that the Church intends to hide or de-emphasize the site is quite wrong. I've known about it for several days now and have been somewhat privy to a plans to publicize it once it went online.

There will be a Church News story about it next week, and there are already online articles in the Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune.

It certainly didn't take rockpond long to get wind of it; you might ask him how he heard the news.

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HappyJackWagon Grand Master

HappyJackWagon

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

No... I think this site represents the "outreach" side of the discussion.  Trying to help those who are gay and want to stay, offering resources to leaders and loved ones, clarifying church doctrine, and sharing stories (which is really important for those who feel alone).

Since the policy was never meant to go public, I don't think it will ever make an appearance here.

What I do wish is that they would put a link to this new page on the main page of LDS.org.

It's hard to think of this as anything other than a PR moved aimed at appeasing the darn LGBT and allies. It actually kind of ticks me off because it comes across as totally disingenuous. Earlier this month they had a full general conference to address important issues where the vast majority of active members would be exposed to this information. Perhaps I missed it when they addressed LGBT issues.

The church comes out with a stinker of a policy. It is later called "revelation". Elder Bednar says there are "no homosxual members of the church". etc. etc. Updating this website is a pathetic attempt to look loving and inclusive when we all know that gays are not welcome. If they are married, they are apostate. Their children cannot fully participate in saving ordinances. Until the church removes the policy and apologizes I don't care much about how they try to spin their approach to look like love and acceptance.

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JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Earlier this month they had a full general conference to address important issues where the vast majority of active members would be exposed to this information. Perhaps I missed it when they addressed LGBT issues.

Updating this website is a pathetic attempt to look loving and inclusive when we all know that gays are not welcome.

Actually the entire conference seemed to be about how loving others didn't mean accepting or tolerating sin.   LGBT issues may not have been named but we all know what was being referred to.
Personally I liked the clarifying distinction between love and tolerance.

Edited by JLHPROF
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Nofear Grand Master

Nofear

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rockpond said:

What I do wish is that they would put a link to this new page on the main page of LDS.org.

It is indeed there on the main page. And they sent an email to those that have subscribed to the church's email list. But shhhh. It's secret. :)

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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It certainly didn't take rockpond long to get wind of it; you might ask him how he heard the news.

 

I first heard that it was coming from John Dehlin.  Somehow he knew ahead of time.

Then I received an email from LDS Living (I'm a subscriber).

And, 20 minutes ago, I received an email from the church:  One of the "My Calling" emails that we get periodically with info specific to our calling (I guess that's obvious).

Articles in CN, DN, and SLT will be nice but unlikely to really reach the "masses" over the long term.  It deserves a place on the main page of LDS.org or else it is unlikely to be widely found/used similar to what we saw with mormonsandgays.org.

 

rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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13 minutes ago, Nofear said:

It is indeed there on the main page. And they sent an email to those that have subscribed to the church's email list. But shhhh. It's secret. :)

Where?  I can't find it.  I would love to be corrected if it is there (because I really would like to see it there).

Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted (edited)

A couple of important points from the Q&A section of the new site:

Quote

 

Q: Will the Church ever change its doctrine and sanction same-sex marriages?

A:

Central to God’s plan, the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman is an integral teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and will not change:

“As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

“Sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. Any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, are sinful and undermine the divinely created institution of the family. The Church accordingly affirms defining marriage as the legal and lawful union between a man and a woman” (Handbook 2: Administering the Church, 21.4.10).

 

 

 

Emphasis mine.

This strikes me as quite definitive.

And it won't do to bring up polygamy or the pre-1978 priesthood restriction. It was never definitively stated these things would never change; in fact, the opposite was stated with regard to the priesthood ban. The hope and expectation in the mainstream Church prior to 1978 was that the priesthood ban one day would be lifted. I'm old enough to remember that very clearly.

This is not the case with regard to same-sex marriage. Those who expect the Church will one day change its stance on that issue remain at odds with the position of the Church.
 

Quote

 

Q: If I'm faithful enough, will my attractions go away?

A:

The intensity of same-sex attraction is not a measure of your faithfulness. Many people pray for years and do all they can to be obedient in an effort to reduce same-sex attraction, yet find they are still attracted to the same sex. Same-sex attraction is experienced along a spectrum of intensity and is not the same for everyone. Some are attracted to both genders, and others are attracted exclusively to the same gender. For some, feelings of same-sex attraction, or at least the intensity of those feelings, may diminish over time. In any case, a change in attraction should not be expected or demanded as an outcome by parents or leaders.

The intensity of your attractions may not be in your control; however, you can choose how to respond. Asking the Lord what you can learn from this experience and how this can become a strength to you can focus your faith on an outcome you can control. Turning your life over to God is an important act of faith that brings great blessings now and even greater blessings in the world to come.

 

This should bring hope to at least some individuals who are beset with same-sex attraction and don't want that inclination. That is, same-sex attraction is experienced along a spectrum of intensity, is not the same for everyone, and, for some, may diminish over time.

The statement that "the intensity of same-sex attraction is not a measure of your faithfulness" should bring hope to everyone.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I first heard that it was coming from John Dehlin.  Somehow he knew ahead of time.

Then I received an email from LDS Living (I'm a subscriber).

And, 20 minutes ago, I received an email from the church:  One of the "My Calling" emails that we get periodically with info specific to our calling (I guess that's obvious).

Articles in CN, DN, and SLT will be nice but unlikely to really reach the "masses" over the long term.  It deserves a place on the main page of LDS.org or else it is unlikely to be widely found/used similar to what we saw with mormonsandgays.org.

 

I understand the new website only went live at about 11 o'clock. A tad impatient, aren't you?

By the way, this isn't the first anyone has heard of this. At the FairMormon Conference two years ago, Michael Otterson told everyone that mormonsandgays.org was being updated.

If anything, this is a bit late, as Otterson said it was coming "next year," which would have been 2015.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Daniel2 Grand Master

Daniel2

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Your insinuation that the Church intends to hide or de-emphasize the site is quite wrong. I've known about it for several days now and have been somewhat privy to a plans to publicize it once it went online.

There will be a Church News story about it next week, and there are already online articles in the Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune.

It certainly didn't take rockpond long to get wind of it; you might ask him how he heard the news.

I'm glad that the church has published a link in it's Newsroom section, as well as hearing about the emails going out.  It sounds as if a letter will go out---is that to be read over the pulpit?

Edited to add:  I just noticed that it IS on the main page of lds.org, as well.  I am pleasantly surprised, and apologize for my previous expression of doubt that the church would publish it on the site.  Kudos to those responsible!

Edited by Daniel2
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HappyJackWagon Grand Master

HappyJackWagon

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Posted
Quote

Q: Will the Church ever change its doctrine and sanction same-sex marriages?

A:

Central to God’s plan, the doctrine of marriage between a man and woman is an integral teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and will not change:

“As a doctrinal principle, based on the scriptures, the Church affirms that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

A definitive declaration that this "will not change" is concerning and is an example of extreme hubris.

They are declaring that their understanding of this issue in 2016 is perfect. I can't take men seriously when they claim to know and understand God's will perfectly; so perfectly in fact, that they can declare something will NEVER change. This is a church of continuing revelation... continuing restoration...but they've got it perfect right now and won't even consider the possibility that they may not have a perfect understanding. The arrogance is off putting and undercuts their credibility.

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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I understand the new website only went live at about 11 o'clock. A tad impatient, aren't you?

By the way, this isn't the first anyone has heard of this. At the FairMormon Conference two years ago, Michael Otterson told everyone that mormonsandgays.org was being updated.

If anything, this is a bit late, as Otterson said it was coming "next year," which would have been 2015.

 

 

Nope, not impatient.  They have had YEARS to link the old MormonsandGays.org site from the main LDS.org page and they chose not ot.

Dehlin knew minor details such as the name change (dropping the "s").

rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A definitive declaration that this "will not change" is concerning and is an example of extreme hubris.

They are declaring that their understanding of this issue in 2016 is perfect. I can't take men seriously when they claim to know and understand God's will perfectly; so perfectly in fact, that they can declare something will NEVER change. This is a church of continuing revelation... continuing restoration...but they've got it perfect right now and won't even consider the possibility that they may not have a perfect understanding. The arrogance is off putting and undercuts their credibility.

 

Yes, it make it harder for us to receive further light and knowledge when we already believe we have it all.

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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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7 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

I'm glad that the church has published a link in it's Newsroom section, as well as hearing about the emails going out.  It sounds as if a letter will go out---is that to be read over the pulpit?

I haven't seen anything about a letter to be read over the pulpit.  I don't anticipate it.

Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Nope, not impatient.  They have had YEARS to link the old MormonsandGays.org site from the main LDS.org page and they chose not ot.

Dehlin knew minor details such as the name change (dropping the "s").

I knew about that too. I guess I'm special like Dehlin is.

 

Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Where does it say that a new essay is coming?  I didn't see that in the materials that I was sent (which included the PDF you linked to).

See the first bullet item on his link.

rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

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32 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This should bring hope to at least some individuals who are beset with same-sex attraction and don't want that inclination. That is, same-sex attraction is experienced along a spectrum of intensity, is not the same for everyone, and, for some, may diminish over time.

The statement that "the intensity of same-sex attraction is not a measure of your faithfulness" should bring hope to everyone.

 

 

I'm not going to comment on the first part because I don't want this thread to turn into another discussion of that topic.

But I appreciate you highlighting the second Q&A, particularly this part:

The intensity of same-sex attraction is not a measure of your faithfulness. Many people pray for years and do all they can to be obedient in an effort to reduce same-sex attraction, yet find they are still attracted to the same sex. Same-sex attraction is experienced along a spectrum of intensity and is not the same for everyone. Some are attracted to both genders, and others are attracted exclusively to the same gender. For some, feelings of same-sex attraction, or at least the intensity of those feelings, may diminish over time. In any case, a change in attraction should not be expected or demanded as an outcome by parents or leaders.

That's a great statement and very important for all to understand.  I'm grateful to see it so clearly stated/published.

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