Bishop Bans Electronic Devices

[Thinking]

Occasionally I attend sacrament meeting for a baby blessing, a farewell, or whatever. Anyway, I usually sit near the back and without fail I see several people playing/texting/surfing on their smart phones. Isn't it amazing how the actions of a few can ruin it for everybody else?

[maklelan]

On 6/23/2016 at 2:37 PM, 6EQUJ5 said:

This past Sunday our Bishop announced that electronic devices such as phones and tablets would no longer be allowed in the chapel.  He said that these devices detract from the Spirit of Sunday meetings and that using these devices in the Chapel was disrespectful.  He also mentioned that this ban may be extended to all Sunday meetings, and not just those held in the chapel as he's received a number of complaints from teachers and others.

I don't know of another ward with this policy and other members of my Stake told me their bishops havent said anything about it so I don't this this is a Stake-wide thing.

Has anyone else seen this in their wards or stakes?  

I'm torn.  I love having my iPad with all of the scriptures and hymns in one place that is easy to search and mark up.  But I also see a a handful of ward members playing games and even watching videos so I understand what the bishop is trying to do.

Q

Headquarters considers the digital versions of its scriptures and other publications to be the main platform for consumption, and we publish everything with that usage in mind, so that bishop needs to get his act together.

[mnn727]

18 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Sacrament meeting today was incredible.  Very reverent and quiet.   Everyone was attentive and the talks were excellent.

Lots of people attended in the RS room.  They did take the sacrament there.

Anyway, I can see the positive impact of our Bishop's counsel already.

Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them electronically by the foolishness of the  Brethren but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou  hast made it known unto us that there shall be no iPads or Phones. But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell or at least the Relief Society Room for the use of the banished instruments; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish electronics of our brethren, And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

Edited July 4, 2016 by mnn727

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them electronically by the childishness of the  Brethren but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou  hast made it known unto us that there shall be no iPads or Phones. But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell or at least the Relief Society Room for the use of the banished instruments; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish electronics of our brethren, And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

This could literally be said about any number of LDS practices and/or doctrines (such as the temple and the people who chose to attend and those who chose to stay away and why).  I can understand disagreeing with the bishop, but trying to make his policy about a need to be superior to other people seems pretty low.

[Meadowchik]

14 hours ago, Stargazer said:

The bishop, in my humble opinion, is off the reservation.  He might as well ban scriptures that are any other color than black or brown.  Or try to enforce taking the Sacrament with the right hand only.

Over half the brethren in my High Priests Group use their devices to reference the lesson while I'm teaching it.  It doesn't seem to harm the lesson one little bit.  Even if they're playing games -- as long as they do it quietly.

 

Perhaps it's odd but reading online frequently helps me stay awake. Last Saturday, during a stake meeting for seminary graduation, I fought sleepiness for 20 minutes as the requirements were dryly described in French. Later it was easier with the presentation of certificates and testimonies. I had my phone but didn't use it out of respect, but oh how I suffered!  

 

[Stargazer]

"Please do not fear technology," says Elder David A. Bednar

Edited to add: that was interesting!  I tried to add this post with the Twitter link embedded and the board software apparently just bit-bucketed it.  But if I made it a link, it was OK.  Then I tried editing this post to add the Twitter embedding, and the board software told me I couldn't do it because the post was too old to edit or something else.

Weird.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Stargazer

[Jeanne]

20 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Since my wife is back in the UK and I won't see her again until I manage to fly there sometime in September, my gizmos are what helps me stay connected with her.  We text, Facebook, and email several times a day.  I'm hoping for her to get a laptop with a built-in camera so we can Skype!  

I do understand the longing to be finally "connection free", though!  

And I sure do understand your need to connect whenever..wherever you can.  I hope when you get there..you have a great time..and bring her back here!!  Must be hard. Hope you can skype soon!!

Take Care

Edited July 4, 2016 by Jeanne

[Scott Lloyd]

On June 29, 2016 at 4:05 PM, bluebell said:

Remember that the topic of our discussion is that a non member would think it odd (and that they were visiting some weird luddite church) if they were asked not to use their electronic devices.  I'm providing examples of why I don't believe that would be the case.  There are lots of places in secular and religious society where electronic devices are not allowed and you and I don't think it's weird at all.  I don't see why a non member would react differently.  

To be honest, if the non-member was used to a certain type of church experience (one that was treated as a more reverent and sacred experience than mormons typically treat our sacrament meetings), they would probably think it extremely odd to see electronic devices in so much use.  

And I agree that the temple and sacrament meeting are different in some ways.  They are the same in some pretty important ways too though so i'm not surprised that some people think that if cell phones are inappropriate for a temple endowment session then they are inappropriate for sacrament meeting as well.  

I still think it weird, if one accepts the presence and use of day planners, scriptures, Church magazines/lesson manuals and printed hymnals in the meeting, not to abide the use of an electronic device for those and similar functions. 

I do concur that they should not be used in meeting for gaming or entertainment -- just as I would disapprove of the reading of MAD magazine or Sports Illustrated or doing crossword puzzles during that time. 

I really don't get the failure or refusal to draw the distinction. Such refusal is tantamount to saying there is something inherently irreverent or disrespectful about the device itself, <regardless of the use to which it is put>. That notion is what strikes me as irrational. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

On June 30, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Teancum said:

If the FP and Q of 12 issued a directive banning electronic devices from sacrament I am skeptical that you would be taking the same positon. 

You could imagine up all manner of unlikely scenarios and pose the same question. You could do it all day, and ultimately the exercise would be as meaningless as it was endless. 

The answer is they haven't done so and they are quite unlikely ever to do so. 

[Scott Lloyd]

On June 27, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Daniel2 said:

I can't help but chuckle when I think of how the Mormon Pioneers would regard this kind of discussion...

First World (not to mention modern technology) Problems, people... first world problems...

I can tell you how I would feel were I to glimpse the blessings of modern conveniences that will be available to my posterity. I would say, "Good for them!" 

And to those who for no rational reason would try to forbid their use, I would say, "Back off! There is no need for you to live in the past."

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I still think it weird, if one accepts the presence and use of day planners, scriptures, Church magazines/lesson manuals and printed hymnals in the meeting, not to abide the use of an electronic device for those and similar functions. 

I do concur that they should not be used in meeting for gaming or entertainment -- just as I would disapprove of the reading of MAD magazine or Sports Illustrated or doing crossword puzzles during that time. 

I really don't get the failure or refusal to draw the distinction. Such refusal is tantamount to saying there is something inherently irreverent or disrespectful about the device itself, <regardless of the use to which it is put>. That notion is what strikes me as irrational. 

I'm not sure what distinction you are talking about. The distinction between using them for scriptures/calendar and gaming/entertainment? Because I haven't seen anyone on the thread who doesn't see that distinction.

[Calm]

Perhaps people expand how they feel about others using cell phones (and likely other devices) in their personal relationships to the extended community.  Even when using them properly or not even using them, but just knowing they are present (I believe the reference is from the latest Psych Today as I just read it last week while in therapist's office) the perception damages the relationship by lowering the feeling of actual connection or intimacy.

Study reported here was from BYU:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201501/how-cellphone-use-can-disconnect-your-relationship

So yes, there may be feelings that there is something inherently wrong about devices in certain settings and for many people, that may include Sacrament Meeting or other church meetings where they believe people should be seeking spiritual connections with each other as well as God.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

I'm not sure what distinction you are talking about. The distinction between using them for scriptures/calendar and gaming/entertainment? Because I haven't seen anyone on the thread who doesn't see that distinction.

If one sees the distinction and recognizes there are appropriate uses for the devices in the chapel and at sacrament meeting, then why advocate for or defend their outright banning? The only reason I can see is that one regards their mere presence at the meeting as being disrespectful, regardless of the use to which they are put. 

Calm has suggested there may be an element of projection here. Perhaps there is. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

On 7/4/2016 at 6:26 AM, maklelan said:

Headquarters considers the digital versions of its scriptures and other publications to be the main platform for consumption, and we publish everything with that usage in mind, so that bishop needs to get his act together.

Those who use the digital versions of the scriptures did not have to replace their scriptures to have the newest edition when it was published a couple of years ago.

Persumably, in 3EQ's ward, speakers at the pulpit as well as congregation members are now banned from using electronic devices. That means, until the bulk of the ward replaces their hard-copy scriptures, the members attending sacrament meeting will be obliged to refer to or have quoted to them out-of-date editions. Not a big thing, perhaps, but a needless consequence of an ill-considered directive.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[stemelbow]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Perhaps people expand how they feel about others using cell phones (and likely other devices) in their personal relationships to the extended community.  Even when using them properly or not even using them, but just knowing they are present (I believe the reference is from the latest Psych Today as I just read it last week while in therapist's office) the perception damages the relationship by lowering the feeling of actual connection or intimacy.

Study reported here was from BYU:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201501/how-cellphone-use-can-disconnect-your-relationship

So yes, there may be feelings that there is something inherently wrong about devices in certain settings and for many people, that may include Sacrament Meeting or other church meetings where they believe people should be seeking spiritual connections with each other as well as God.

I don't think this study applies here.  We're not talking about romantic relationships, or interpersonal relationships. 

[bcuzbcuz]

On 25 June 2016 at 4:16 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

These are all good and useful resources, but I don't see anything in any of them that clearly endorses or promotes the banning of electronic device use at church when it can reasonably be supposed that one might put them to reasonably appropriate uses, such as looking up scriptures, hymn singing, finding an answer to a gospel question, locating a reference to teach others as part of one's calling, familiarizing oneself with who holds particular ward or stake callings, learning more about individuals in a family so as to minister more effectively to them, etc. 

So I still say a bishop who bans their use is looking beyond the mark and worse: infringing on personal agency. 

The very presence of the rich resource content provided by the Church that is accessible via personal electronic devices suggests that the Church expects those resources to be used -- in Sabbath worship services as well as in family or personal settings. 

Not sure I agree Scott. Just suppose the recommendation from the pulpit be that everyone use their cell phones, iPads, etc to find the lyrics for the next hymn. I would comfortably bet that a great number of the congregation would continue using their device after the hymn finished. They would "just have to look up one more thing" that they thought of while reading the lyrics. (Oh, and I do think that use of such devices is disrespectful. I thought so even as a teacher at Secondary school. Time and place for everything)

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Not sure I agree Scott. Just suppose the recommendation from the pulpit be that everyone use their cell phones, iPads, etc to find the lyrics for the next hymn. I would comfortably bet that a great number of the congregation would continue using their device after the hymn finished. They would "just have to look up one more thing" that they thought of while reading the lyrics. (Oh, and I do think that use of such devices is disrespectful. I thought so even as a teacher at Secondary school. Time and place for everything)

What you describe is a good thing, in my mind.  We should be free to use our resources when pondering in Church.  If a lyric in a hymn draws spiritual life to us and causes us to add to that by searching for other lines and thoughts, well, that's all the better, in my view.  The concept of Church seems sterile to me when we think people should come to sit quietly, listen, and not let their minds wander.  Mind wandering is where I do my best Church, where I do my best worship. 

[bluebell]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If one sees the distinction and recognizes there are appropriate uses for the devices in the chapel and at sacrament meeting, then why advocate for or defend their outright banning? The only reason I can see is that one regards their mere presence at the meeting as being disrespectful, regardless of the use to which they are put. 

Calm has suggested there may be an element of projection here. Perhaps there is. 

I agree with on on it being weird, but i don't find defending the bishop's choice as irrational because I don't think it's going to hurt the majority of people to obey his wishes for an hour (now, if he wanted to ban them for the other two hours then i think that would be irrational because it's really hard to get thru those without needing some material). I always have my phone with me in sacrament meeting, but i never take it out and from what i've observed the last couple of sundays, most other people don't either.  We all get through the meeting no worse for the wear so i don't think it's that big of a deal.  

An inconvenience for a couple of people probably but nothing worth having negative feelings about in sacrament meeting for most of us.  

[mnn727]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Not sure I agree Scott. Just suppose the recommendation from the pulpit be that everyone use their cell phones, iPads, etc to find the lyrics for the next hymn. I would comfortably bet that a great number of the congregation would continue using their device after the hymn finished. They would "just have to look up one more thing" that they thought of while reading the lyrics. (Oh, and I do think that use of such devices is disrespectful. I thought so even as a teacher at Secondary school. Time and place for everything)

So what?they have the Agency to do that. What is different about phones/tablets from looking at a magazine, coloring,  or falling asleep?

Sorry but this Ward is being divided and may never recover from it.

[flameburns623]

Upon a time, a certain number of speakers would commence their comments with, "Brothers and Sisters, my remarks are going to be based upon _______, if everyone will please turn there in your Scriptures and read with me" . . .

Followed by rustlings and the sound of zippers as everyone duly shuffled thru their quads or bibles.

Not many speakers seem to do that any longer, but if that became customary once more: what will congregants do who keep their Scriptures and other materials on an electronic device?

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, flameburns623 said:

Upon a time, a certain number of speakers would commence their comments with, "Brothers and Sisters, my remarks are going to be based upon _______, if everyone will please turn there in your Scriptures and read with me" . . .

Followed by rustlings and the sound of zippers as everyone duly shuffled thru their quads or bibles.

Not many speakers seem to do that any longer, but if that became customary once more: what will congregants do who keep their Scriptures and other materials on an electronic device?

I thought that I remembered being told years ago that speakers weren't to ask people to do that anymore.  Maybe i'm remembering wrong though.

[HappyJackWagon]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I thought that I remembered being told years ago that speakers weren't to ask people to do that anymore.  Maybe i'm remembering wrong though.

You're right. It has been discouraged as a practice.

[toon]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 10:57 PM, Thinking said:

Occasionally I attend sacrament meeting for a baby blessing, a farewell, or whatever. Anyway, I usually sit near the back and without fail I see several people playing/texting/surfing on their smart phones. Isn't it amazing how the actions of a few can ruin it for everybody else?

How does one person quietly playing/texting/surfing ruin it for others? 

 

[toon]

3 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Not sure I agree Scott. Just suppose the recommendation from the pulpit be that everyone use their cell phones, iPads, etc to find the lyrics for the next hymn. I would comfortably bet that a great number of the congregation would continue using their device after the hymn finished. They would "just have to look up one more thing" that they thought of while reading the lyrics. (Oh, and I do think that use of such devices is disrespectful. I thought so even as a teacher at Secondary school. Time and place for everything)

So what?  Why the need to police whether people in the congregation are doing, especially if they're not bothering anyone else?  Sure, it may be disrespectful to the speaker, possibly the only one who might notice.  But is that up to the bishop to police?  Are we going to have someone walk around and whack anyone who dozes off with a stick to wake him up?  I mean, falling asleep is just as if not more disrespectful. 

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I thought that I remembered being told years ago that speakers weren't to ask people to do that anymore.

Same here