Bishop Bans Electronic Devices

[ksfisher]

41 minutes ago, Calm said:

Same here

Handbook 2, 18.2.2

To maintain an atmosphere of reverent worship in sacrament meetings, when speakers use scriptures as part of their talks, they should not ask the congregation to open their own books to the scriptural references.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng#18.2.2

 

[flameburns623]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I thought that I remembered being told years ago that speakers weren't to ask people to do that anymore.  Maybe i'm remembering wrong though.

Explains why I don't see it much, lol!

[flameburns623]

26 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Handbook 2, 18.2.2

To maintain an atmosphere of reverent worship in sacrament meetings, when speakers use scriptures as part of their talks, they should not ask the congregation to open their own books to the scriptural references.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng#18.2.2

 

Aha!

Ah! Ha!

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Handbook 2, 18.2.2

To maintain an atmosphere of reverent worship in sacrament meetings, when speakers use scriptures as part of their talks, they should not ask the congregation to open their own books to the scriptural references.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng#18.2.2

 

So let's ban hard-copy scriptures from sacrament meeting as long as we're banning electronic devices, since people aren't supposed to be opening their scriptures while the speaker is preaching anyway.

Or is it that they just don't want the everybody doing it at the same time? 'Twould be much quieter with the digital version; no rustling of pages.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[ksfisher]

12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So let's ban hard-copy scriptures from sacrament meeting as long as we're banning electronic devices, since people aren't supposed to be opening their scriptures while the speaker is preaching anyway.

Or is it that they just don't want the everybody doing it at the same time? "Twould be much quieter with the digital version; no rustling of pages.

The handbook doesn't say anything about people opening their scriptures, only that the speaker shouldn't ask them to.

[ElPatron]

Ok...I give up resisting the urge to weigh in here. To me this is a non-issue. Who cares what someone is doing on their OWN PERSONAL device. It's their device, their choice what to do w/ it. As long as they're not disturbing those around them, it's up to them what they do. Half the time in meetings, my mind has checked out anyway. No one can tell me to check my brain at the door and no one can force me to focus on the the lesson at hand either. Our Seminary classes in our stake this year had the kids take the end of the year assessments on electronic devices. For those students that didn't have a smart phone or tablet, the teachers had some devices available for them to use. What does that say about the direction that we're heading? I recently witnessed a teacher in one of your YM's classes ask a young man to put his device away during the lesson. The young man complied and then shortly after, left the room for the rest of the lesson. I would rather have had that young man sitting there w/ his phone out where he could possibly have heard something in the lesson that caught his attention rather then not being in the room to hear anything at all. At least he would be there where the chance could have happened. I'm in my mid 40's and have completely embraced this technology. I know when to use it and when to put it away. We encourage our son's the same way but I also know they'll try to sneak it out just like I used to do w/ comic books when I was a kid in sacrament meeting. Additionally, our entire Bishopric uses a table when conducting meetings and the Stake President's counsellors to as well during PH meetings and stake conference. When I was in the Bishopric, I did as well and will continue to do so. 

[ElPatron]

5 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

Ok...I give up resisting the urge to weigh in here. To me this is a non-issue. Who cares what someone is doing on their OWN PERSONAL device. It's their device, their choice what to do w/ it. As long as they're not disturbing those around them, it's up to them what they do. Half the time in meetings, my mind has checked out anyway. No one can tell me to check my brain at the door and no one can force me to focus on the the lesson at hand either. Our Seminary classes in our stake this year had the kids take the end of the year assessments on electronic devices. For those students that didn't have a smart phone or tablet, the teachers had some devices available for them to use. What does that say about the direction that we're heading? I recently witnessed a teacher in one of your YM's classes ask a young man to put his device away during the lesson. The young man complied and then shortly after, left the room for the rest of the lesson. I would rather have had that young man sitting there w/ his phone out where he could possibly have heard something in the lesson that caught his attention rather then not being in the room to hear anything at all. At least he would be there where the chance could have happened. I'm in my mid 40's and have completely embraced this technology. I know when to use it and when to put it away. We encourage our son's the same way but I also know they'll try to sneak it out just like I used to do w/ comic books when I was a kid in sacrament meeting. Additionally, our entire Bishopric uses a table when conducting meetings and the Stake President's counsellors to as well during PH meetings and stake conference. When I was in the Bishopric, I did as well and will continue to do so. 

Sorry.....probably shouldn't have said this is a "non-issue"...obviously it is an issue or else this wouldn't be a topic. Kind of insensitive of me. 

[ksfisher]

9 minutes ago, ElPatron said:

. It's their device, their choice what to do w/ it. As long as they're not disturbing those around them, it's up to them what they do.

I think that this is the crux of the matter.  Can a device be used in sacrament meeting, inappropriately, and not affect those around them. 

Sacrament meeting, especially during the sacrament, is a time when we should be "one" with those around us.  I admit that if I see the person in front of me browsing Facebook during the sacrament (which I have) my opinion of that person goes down just a little.  This is exactly the opposite of the feelings I should be having.

This distraction can have an even greater impact on children.  If they see an adult in front of them playing a game in their phone instead of listening to a speaker it becomes even more difficult for the child to commit their limited attention span to the talk. 

Personally, I don't take any manuals, scriptures, or other kinds of printed material with me to church.  Only my iPad.  This works great for me as I have the discipline to not open a book, game, or web page when the meeting gets a bit dry.  Others don't have that.  If I were to give in and start checking Facebook during a poor talk what does that say to the people around me about my commitment to be reverent?  What may that lead them to do?  We never do anything in isolation.

[Daniel2]

My take-away from this thread about LDS views on liberties and freedoms... (without meaning to turn it into a same-sex marriage thread--so no need to comment on that aspect, but....)

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Latter-day Saints are OK with banning marriage for same-sex couples... no one better dare suggest banning the use of electronic devices during Sacrament meeting!!!!

Mind boggled.........

[Calm]

47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So let's ban hard-copy scriptures from sacrament meeting as long as we're banning electronic devices, since people aren't supposed to be opening their scriptures while the speaker is preaching anyway.

Or is it that they just don't want the everybody doing it at the same time? "Twould be much quieter with the digital version; no rustling of pages.

I think it is more that they both want to remove a sense of obligation to respond and thus guilt when unable to do so for those who don't bring scriptures to church don't feel awkward and those for whom it would be a struggle to find scriptures to read along in a timely manner (kids, physical or mental limitations) as well as increase ability to concentrate on what is being said as sometimes in attempting to locate scriptures, listeners focus on that and not the talk itself and then may have a hard time refocusing their attention back on what is being said (I think the latter is likely the most primary reason).

[ksfisher]

27 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

My take-away from this thread about LDS views on liberties and freedoms... (without meaning to turn it into a same-sex marriage thread--so no need to comment on that aspect, but....)

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Latter-day Saints are OK with banning marriage for same-sex couples... no one better dare suggest banning the use of electronic devices during Sacrament meeting!!!!

Mind boggled.........

Perhaps most people are able to distingush the difference between a phone and a marriage.

[Daniel2]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Perhaps most people are able to distingush the difference between a phone and a marriage.

I agree most people are able to recognize the distinction.  Unfortunately, many Latter-day Saints still deny that there's a legally-settled civil right to one, and obviously no recognized civil right to the use the other during Sacrament meeting.  

Do NOT hijack this thread.Gay marriage posts will be removed.

[Thinking]

8 hours ago, toon said:

How does one person quietly playing/texting/surfing ruin it for others? 

Those members who are "playing" caused the bishop to make the rule, thus ruining the convenience of electronic access to church materials.

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The handbook doesn't say anything about people opening their scriptures, only that the speaker shouldn't ask them to.

Nor does it say anything about the banning of electronic devices from the chapel. As long as we're imposing ad hoc, outside-the-handbook rules, perhaps we could ban hard-copy scriptures as well. Then a speaker wouldn't be tempted to ask people to open them and there would be no paper rustling. 

(I'm being sardonic here, in case you can't tell.)

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I think it is more that they both want to remove a sense of obligation to respond and thus guilt when unable to do so for those who don't bring scriptures to church don't feel awkward and those for whom it would be a struggle to find scriptures to read along in a timely manner (kids, physical or mental limitations) as well as increase ability to concentrate on what is being said as sometimes in attempting to locate scriptures, listeners focus on that and not the talk itself and then may have a hard time refocusing their attention back on what is being said (I think the latter is likely the most primary reason).

I agree. And I'm not opposed to the handbook direction saying speakers shouldn't do this. I'm only trying to make a point (perhaps unsuccessfully) about imposing local, quirky rules beyond what's in the handbook. 

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

I agree most people are able to recognize the distinction.  Unfortunately, many Latter-day Saints still deny that there's a legally-settled civil right to one, and obviously no recognized civil right to the use the other during Sacrament meeting.  

Do NOT hijack this thread.Gay marriage posts will be removed.

Thank you in advance for their removal. 

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I agree. And I'm not opposed to the handbook direction saying speakers shouldn't do this. I'm only trying to make a point (perhaps unsuccessfully) about imposing local, quirky rules beyond what's in the handbook. 

I got it.

[bcuzbcuz]

14 hours ago, toon said:

So what?  Why the need to police whether people in the congregation are doing, especially if they're not bothering anyone else?  Sure, it may be disrespectful to the speaker, possibly the only one who might notice.  But is that up to the bishop to police?  Are we going to have someone walk around and whack anyone who dozes off with a stick to wake him up?  I mean, falling asleep is just as if not more disrespectful. 

I like the stick idea. The ancient Egyptians believed a stick was necessary for proper learning.

[ksfisher]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Nor does it say anything about the banning of electronic devices from the chapel. As long as we're imposing ad hoc, outside-the-handbook rules, perhaps we could ban hard-copy scriptures as well. Then a speaker wouldn't be tempted to ask people to open them and there would be no paper rustling. 

(I'm being sardonic here, in case you can't tell.)

Understood.  I believe that this bishop, while trying to do a good thing in helping his congregation focus more on Christ and sacrament meeting, has gone about it the wrong way.  I don't think there is any way this ban could, or should be enforced.

Edited July 8, 2016 by ksfisher

[juliann]

Cynth, if I was quickly reading that it could easily look like that first comment was from you if it wasn't in a quote box. When somebody makes a bone headed comment make sure it is well highlighted. LOL

[cynth]

10 minutes ago, juliann said:

Cynth, if I was quickly reading that it could easily look like that first comment was from you if it wasn't in a quote box. When somebody makes a bone headed comment make sure it is well highlighted. LOL

Thank you good point, I will!  LOL.  Boneheadedness deserves to be accurately attributed. 

 

[sdc999]

Look,  A bishop can ban anything that he wants to so long as people comply.  If they don't comply, then what?  What are the ramifications?  Consequences?  Anyone, Anyone?  

Just whip out the ole' section 121 on the bishop:  39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the natureand disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

 

[will227457]

I haven't read every post but this Bishop is way off reservation 

[carbon dioxide]

Most of the members in my ward have their scriptures and other church related material on their electronic devices.  It would not work in my ward.  I am still old school.  I don't even have a smartphone or iPad. 

[ksfisher]

10 minutes ago, will227457 said:

I haven't read every post but this Bishop is way off reservation 

Rushing to judgment would seem to be also.  The guy seems to be trying to address a legitimate concern.  I don't agree with the methods.  I would bet that the ward leadership will eventually come to the conclusion that the ban does not work and try to address the problem through other means.