Bishop Bans Electronic Devices

[stemelbow]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not talking about merely silencing our phones, but in putting them away and not looking at them or using them.  There are a lot of places and events in our secular world where that is asked of those who attend the function and no one complains or thinks it's odd.  I don't think a newcomer would be at all surprised if they were asked not to use their electronic devices during an LDS worship service.

In plays and movies?  I don't really find them distracting anymore in such environments.  But church carries a specific reason to use them--they are people's access to the scriptures and other things, like General Conference.  If we went to movies to ponder on the scriptures, I'd see purpose for them there too. 

I don't know it feels like there are more distracting things to worry about.  My son recently bleached to outer areas of his hair, and he's grown it out long.  We've gotten a comment or two from the older members feeling distracted by him and finding his appearance ugly in terms of Church.  Ah well, we figure.  There'll always be haters. 

[Daniel2]

15 hours ago, cynth said:

I would have to disagree with you there.  It is customary in roman catholic masses to request prior to a service for people to turn off electronic devices.  Here on the East Coast, movie theatres, museum tours, Broadway shows, ballet, dance and instrumental performances, school debate competitions, graduation services, even small town zoning meetings ask attendees to turn off their electronic devices.  It is absolutely normal and expected.   No one considers being asked to have respect for the event and for other attendees to be 'uncalled for silliness,' especially during a religious service.  If one insists on using a device during an event, then why be there?  If one insists on looking at their tiny screen rather than at the real life unfolding before their eyes, that is their loss; people will roll their eyes at such crassness, and anything but absolute silence while violators tap on their teeny little device is vigorously excoriated.  'Neo-Luddite cult.'. Please.  The whole world is out there, and no one I know has any problem being asked to respect an event by turning off an electronic device.  

Yes to the above... This... a thousand times, this!

I know a few people responded to my earlier post attempting to justify their use of electronic devices during church along the lines of the following:

• But I use the hymnal app on my phone!
• But I use the scripture app on my phone!
• But I use the lesson manual on my phone!
• You may not understand because in your church, you may not use lesson manuals or reference scriptures like we do in the LDS church, but I really use my phone for legitimate church stuff, and I need it and...I...must...have...the...precioussssssssss...!!!! (this was a joke. sort of.  )
• I'm too old/weak/infirm to carry around actual books!!!

Look, I understand there may be many legitimate uses for a cellphone that are church-related, especially during lessons in class...  And I'm a huge fan of literature/book apps that make reading easier.  Not to mention, that I'm as addicted to my phone as any 15-year-old teenager is likely to be...

But I can't imagine an absolute necessity to ever have to use an electronic device during the one-hour of Sacrament meeting (which is what I meant, during my previous comments)...

The LDS church DOES have hymnals available to EVERYONE during every meeting.  It may take a little planning and effort on your part to ensure you have one or are sitting next to someone who does, so you can (heaven forbid...!) have to interact with someone else and actually share.

And, if you want to look up scriptures to follow along, you can always bring a physical book to do so... or, even better, if you are too weak/infirm to carry around a book, you can always take notes and write down the passages you'd like to study further and/or mark and incorporate those passages/notes/highlighting during your own personal scripture study time.  That'd be a win/win, since it allows you to re-visit important passages and return to ponder their significance more than just a passing glance during a talk...

As others have said: anyone--including this LDS bishop, IMO--is perfectly justified in asking individuals to please turn off electronic devices (or to kindly step outside, in case of an emergency need to use them) during the course of a talk/lesson/prepared remarks/etc.  From my perspective, it simply a matter of politeness and courtesy.

All this discussion recalled to mind the musings of Mr. Carl Conrad Coreander, the owner of the bookshop into which Bastian Bathazar Bux happens to run in to, at the beginning of the book (and the film of the same name), "The Neverending Story":

Quote

"The video arcade is down the street! Here we just sell small rectangular objects.  They're called...books!

"They require a little effort on your part, and make no bee-bee-bee-bee-beeps!

"On your way please."

I can't help but chuckle when I think of how the Mormon Pioneers would regard this kind of discussion...

First World (not to mention modern technology) Problems, people... first world problems...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Daniel2

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

Maybe this is just coincidence, but my family tells me that yesterday our bishop here in Virginia expressed his concern at the excessive use of electronic devices at church and counseled people to put them away except when absolutely necessary (apparently he didn't define when that would be). I wonder if this has come up in leadership training meetings. 

That would be an appropriate way to address the issue. Banning the use of all electronic devices is not.

In my experience LDS services are more interactive than many other traditions in the sense that people are listening and trying to engage as they synthesize info. They look up conference talks to read a quote, follow along in scriptures, follow along and sing parts on the hymns, they make notes. Not to say this wouldn't ever happen in other churches, but from the  non lds churches I've visited there seems to be more of a feel of being in an audience (maybe it's just my inexperience with other churches). I see that as a good thing.

On the other hand, often times other churches will have the words of hymns on large screens so the congregants can follow along. We don't have that. Often times they'll post scriptures or even brief videos during the pastors talk so people can follow along. We don't do that. Sometimes they use powerpoint style presentations during the sermon so people can follow along visually. Obviously we don't do that (though it does happen in General Conference). IOW- many churches work media into their services. We don't do that in sacrament meeting.

This may be getting more into a critique of the conservative, traditional LDS services, but I think our church would do well to recognize that not everyone experiences Sacrament meeting or classes in the same way. People learn differently. They engage differently. People enjoy different things and different approaches. This is good unless we feel that everyone should be required to experience services in the exact same way.

Personally, I'd love to see the church adopt a system that allows people to choose between traditional/conservative services or a more contemporary service. The church could still accomplish it's purposes (sacrament and teaching) while allowing for different styles of presentation/participation.

Edited June 27, 2016 by HappyJackWagon

[Jeanne]

I live in a different world than most here.  I don't own a cell phone.  I have a land line ...the olden days where I check for messages and call back and nothing interrupts my simple world.  I love the smell of new and old books and in my active days, loved my quad.  I don't know..I am just simply amazed that so many will do so much for the Lord and the church (some of which is difficult and painful for others) and yet..can't leave the darn things alone.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, Antoni said:

 

If someone has something more pressing for 60 mins of their lives then they need to deal with that - asking people to refrain from using them for 60 mins a week is NOT a big ask. We have a member of the ward here who works in a very senior capacity in the national security. He has to have his phone on at all times, but he simply has it on vibrate and leaves if he needs to deal with something.(which I think has happened once in the last few years) He also notifies those around him prior to start that he may need to leave due to nature of his work.

I totally get that and admire his politeness. A medical professional or forces/police are only exceptions I can think. 

I also have to be honest here - I seldom see people using them "correctly" - even people I respect and thought would know better  I've caught looking up the news sites/social media. I think the temptation is just too great as people are now habitually used to flicking through their screens at nonsense all day.

I'd also call to peoples remembrance the counsel we've received from apostles over the last few General Conferences about not using devices during sacrament meetings. But of course "who are they to judge people".

I've not posted on here for an age and entering into this "discussion" has reminded me why I stopped. So I'll bid you all adieu again as this clearly isn't the place for me. 

Light, Love and Peace

 

 

You do not seem to understand the church functions available on these devices and their legitimate uses. Perhaps that use is not common in your community.

This is not a place for the thin skinned, and I wish you well. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Daniel2]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

In plays and movies?  I don't really find them distracting anymore in such environments. 

Recently, we took our kids and grandkids to see Disney's "The Jungle Book" in the movie theater.  We sat about four rows up from the entry aisle.

About 30 min into the film, there was a family in the center of the front row who's young son started to get restless and fussy.  So, what was the father's response...?  He pulled out a friggen iPad and pulled up cartoons on Netflix for his son to watch on the iPad's bright, undimmed screen...  It was distracting and just about ruined the entire movie.

At least 8 people whispered their requests for him to please turn off the iPad (and with gradually increasing volume, and moving from politeness, at the beginning, towards incredulity and less patience, by the end).  After a good 10 min of these protests around him, the father continued to completely ignore everyone's requests to turn off the offending device.   

I finally got up, went outside, found a theater employee, and let them know of the father's ongoing use of the iPad, despite numerous requests from multiple patrons.  The employee followed me back inside, stood for a few moments and watched the defiant father, and went up to him and politely asked him to remove the iPad. 

The audience cheered as he angrily grabbed his iPad and took his son outside the theater. 

There is a time and place for technology.  When it's distracting in locations where people are trying to focus--whether it be for entertainment, or to learn, and especially, I would think, to worship--I think it's entirely appropriate to ask everyone to refrain from electronic device use (including the polite suggestion to take it outside, if needs be).

As I said previously, despite the obvious fact that there ARE legitimate times and places to use electronic devices and the amazing apps that allow us to carry virtual libraries in our pockets--it's NOT too much to ask for people to follow up using such devices later.

Oh, and for what it's worth: it's kinda patronizing, not to mention absurd, to tell those of us who belong to other Faiths that our services/circumstances are "less interactive" than LDS services.  In fact, in the UU services I attend, we have both hymns that we sing, as well as responsive readings that require the officiant and the congregants to alternate reading lines back and forth from the hymnals at various times during the service.  Additionally, I often take copious notes of quotations, citations, poems, hymns, and references that I want to bookmark, read through, follow up on, etc.  And because the topics are FAR less repetitive than those I experienced throughout my 30+ years in Mormonism, the topics are more often (to me) previously unexplored territory, meaning that I could probably justify a desire or reason to want to 'look them up' to follow along/mark, more than I would have, within LDS cannon.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Daniel2

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Recently, we took our kids and grandkids to see Disney's "The Jungle Book" in the movie theater.  We sat about four rows up from the entry aisle.

About 30 min into the film, there was a family in the center of the front row who's young son started to get restless and fussy.  So, what was the father's response...?  He pulled out a friggen iPad and pulled up cartoons on Netflix for his son to watch on the iPad's bright, undimmed screen...  It was distracting and just about ruined the entire movie.

At least 8 people whispered their requests for him to please turn off the iPad (and with gradually increasing volume, and moving from politeness, at the beginning, towards incredulity and less patience, by the end).  After a good 10 min of these protests around him, the father continued to completely ignore everyone's requests to turn off the offending device.   

I finally got up, went outside, found a theater employee, and let them know of the father's ongoing use of the iPad, despite numerous requests from multiple patrons.  The employee followed me back inside, stood for a few moments and watched the defiant father, and went up to him and politely asked him to remove the iPad. 

The audience cheered as he angrily grabbed his iPad and took his son outside the theater. 

There is a time and place for technology.  When it's distracting in locations where people are trying to focus--whether it be for entertainment, or to learn, and especially, I would think, to worship--I think it's entirely appropriate to ask everyone to refrain from electronic device use (including the polite suggestion to take it outside, if needs be).

I certainly expect people to act with some level of respect.  Your case is just odd and rare.  I wouldn't imagine it happening until it happened I guess.  Most who use their devices in Church are doing so quietly, on their lap.  No one's got the sound turned up holding it up for other's to see. 

My wife notices devices when turned on in movies, for instance.  I don't.  She can point them out, but doesn't do so anymore.  Most who pop open their phone to see if they get messages from baby sitters can't be noticeable or distracting.  But I get the problem with what you describe above. 

[cynth]

Quote

In my experience LDS services are more interactive than many other traditions in the sense that people are listening and trying to engage as they synthesize info. They look up conference talks to read a quote, follow along in scriptures, follow along and sing parts on the hymns, they make notes. Not to say this wouldn't ever happen in other churches, but from the  non lds churches I've visited there seems to be more of a feel of being in an audience (maybe it's just my inexperience with other churches)

Agreed about more interactivity.   It could just be custom, however, because people can listen and engage without using devices of any kind, electronic or not.  The custom in a mass, for example, could be thought of as more like a temple session, where the mood is more reverential and meditative, and is clearly seen as an appropriate way to worship.

In a mass, there is singing from hymnals and the scriptures used that day are written and provided so certainly in that sense there is no issue with accessing words that are a part of the service.  Putting dates in a calendar, accessing and reading an online source because it was briefly referenced in a sermon would be considered activities that do not contribute to the solemn and reverential nature of the service, nor to the meditative worship of an individual.  

In addition, most people in my parish at least seem to accept that using a phone during a service is really not crucial, so yes, this could be cultural more than anything else.  I know several doctors who attend my parish, I'm sure their phones are on vibrate, but I don't see them out.  Culturally, it is just accepted that the worshipful nature of a mass does not include using an electronic device during them. 

It should be noted also that the equivalent service to a mass would be a sacrament meeting, so I'm not including using devices during other parts of the three hour block.  It sounds like the online nature of manuals and scriptures make devices necessary, at least for those activities, during those other meetings.

[mfbukowski]

44 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

 

Oh, and for what it's worth: it's kinda patronizing, not to mention absurd, to tell those of us who belong to other Faiths that our services/circumstances are "less interactive" than LDS services.  In fact, in the UU services I attend, I often take copious notes of quotations, citations, poems, hymns, and references that I want to bookmark, read through, follow up on, etc.  And because the topics are FAR less repetitive than those I experienced throughout my 30+ years in Mormonism, the topics are more often (to me) previously unexplored territory, meaning that I could probably justify a desire or reason to want to 'look them up' to follow along/mark, more than I would have, within LDS cannon.

OOOO, a little defensive today, huh?

It's our fault you did not understand our doctrine enough to find it stimulating?  Others here do not have that problem

I find that turning Christianity on its head while preserving its essentials is amazingly intellectually challenging.  How can religious experience be intellectually justified goes to the center of the mind-body problem which has been pondered for millenia, and we have solved it in Alma 32 and D*C 93.

That alone is worth the price of admission intellectually for me

Edited June 27, 2016 by mfbukowski

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Daniel2 said:

Yes to the above... This... a thousand times, this!

I know a few people responded to my earlier post attempting to justify their use of electronic devices during church along the lines of the following:

• But I use the hymnal app on my phone!
• But I use the scripture app on my phone!
• But I use the lesson manual on my phone!
• You may not understand because in your church, you may not use lesson manuals or reference scriptures like we do in the LDS church, but I really use my phone for legitimate church stuff, and I need it and...I...must...have...the...precioussssssssss...!!!! (this was a joke. sort of.  )
• I'm too old/weak/infirm to carry around actual books!!!

Look, I understand there may be many legitimate uses for a cellphone that are church-related, especially during lessons in class...  And I'm a huge fan of literature/book apps that make reading easier.  Not to mention, that I'm as addicted to my phone as any 15-year-old teenager is likely to be...

But I can't imagine an absolute necessity to ever have to use an electronic device during the one-hour of Sacrament meeting (which is what I meant, during my previous comments)...

1- The LDS church DOES have hymnals available to EVERYONE during every meeting.  It may take a little planning and effort on your part to ensure you have one or are sitting next to someone who does, so you can (heaven forbid...!) have to interact with someone else and actually share.

2- And, if you want to look up scriptures to follow along, you can always bring a physical book to do so... or, even better, if you are too weak/infirm to carry around a book, you can always take notes and write down the passages you'd like to study further and/or mark and incorporate those passages/notes/highlighting during your own personal scripture study time.  That'd be a win/win, since it allows you to re-visit important passages and return to ponder their significance more than just a passing glance during a talk...

3- As others have said: anyone--including this LDS bishop, IMO--is perfectly justified in asking individuals to please turn off electronic devices (or to kindly step outside, in case of an emergency need to use them) during the course of a talk/lesson/prepared remarks/etc.  From my perspective, it simply a matter of politeness and courtesy.

 

1- Simply not true. EVERYONE does not have a hymnal. In the overflow we rarely have hymnals. We have 50-75 in the overflow every week and none of those people have a hymnal. Therefore, if I want to sing I need to have my ipad-mini or my phone. That's just reality.

2- Yes, a person could do those things but I don't see how making notes on a pad of paper is any better than making notes on the ipad.

3- You are assuming that electronic devices are a distraction but I haven't seen how/why they would be. We're not in a blackened room watching a movie where any light source becomes a distraction. If it is justified for someone to ask another person to leave for quietly reading on an ipad then would it also be justified for me to ask someone to leave if they are reading their scriptures, writing on a notepad, sharing a picture book with their children?

The point is that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to utilize electronics. Banning them all because some people may misuse them is a lazy solution. Frankly, just because someone has a preference against electronics is not sufficient reason for me to obey their preference. It's just as presumptuous for other to inflict their preference on my as it would be for me to inflict my preference upon them.

 

[Is Back]

I'd do what my bishop asked me to do.  That's the way the Lord blesses me.  Some of you are on the road to destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elder+oaks+even+if+wrong+the+lord+bless

 

Dial it back, Is Back. We do not allow posters to condemn other posters' religious beliefs.

[flameburns623]

7 minutes ago, Is Back said:

I'd do what my bishop asked me to do.  That's the way the Lord blesses me.  Some of you are on the road to destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elder+oaks+even+if+wrong+the+lord+bless

 

[Daniel2]

42 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

OOOO, a little defensive today, huh?

Not sure what you're talking about, here, but respectfully, it appears you're reading a tone of defensiveness into my writing that isn't part of my intent.  I'm participating in a discussion, as is the intent and purpose of this board.

Quote

It's our fault you did not understand our doctrine enough to find it stimulating?  Others here do not have that problem.

The above comment is a Strawman argument.  At no time did I say that I didn't understand LDS doctrine, or that I failed to find it stimulating.  On the contrary, I often found (and continue to find) value in studying and discussion of all sorts of theology.

Quote

I find that turning Christianity on its head while preserving its essentials is amazingly intellectually challenging.  How can religious experience be intellectually justified goes to the center of the mind-body problem which has been pondered for millenia, and we have solved it in Alma 32 and D*C 93.

That alone is worth the price of admission intellectually for me.

It's important for each of us to find edification and value within our spiritual life, and I'm glad you're walking a path that you find fulfilling. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Daniel2

[Daniel2]

31 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

1- Simply not true. EVERYONE does not have a hymnal. In the overflow we rarely have hymnals. We have 50-75 in the overflow every week and none of those people have a hymnal. Therefore, if I want to sing I need to have my ipad-mini or my phone. That's just reality.

2- Yes, a person could do those things but I don't see how making notes on a pad of paper is any better than making notes on the ipad.

3- You are assuming that electronic devices are a distraction but I haven't seen how/why they would be. We're not in a blackened room watching a movie where any light source becomes a distraction. If it is justified for someone to ask another person to leave for quietly reading on an ipad then would it also be justified for me to ask someone to leave if they are reading their scriptures, writing on a notepad, sharing a picture book with their children?

The point is that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to utilize electronics. Banning them all because some people may misuse them is a lazy solution. Frankly, just because someone has a preference against electronics is not sufficient reason for me to obey their preference. It's just as presumptuous for other to inflict their preference on my as it would be for me to inflict my preference upon them.

 

Couple of thoughts, in response...

1. You're correct--the exact wording of my post could be sliced and diced to make it sound as if not EVERYONE has their own hymnal... but in my experience, the church places hymnals around enough so that there's usually enough for every two or three people to share. When it comes to overflow into the cultural hall, two thoughts:

• If there aren't hymnals in the overflow area, a simple fix would be to make sure that ANY bishop in ANY ward knows that there aren't any back there, and I am sure ANY bishop would be MORE than happy to ensure that there are hymnals placed every two chairs so those in the overflow can enjoy joining in singing.
• That being said, I would personally consider the overflow space to be "outside" the chapel, proper, and would be a location that it makes sense for people who are arriving late and who don't have access to hymnals to appropriately use their electronic devices, similar to the sitting rooms just outside the chapel doors.

2.  You may not see what the difference is, but as a trainer by profession, I can tell a definite difference in my classes, both as a speaker and in terms of distractions to fellow participants, between someone pulling out an electronic device vs. someone physically handwriting notes or following along in a book or manual.  And yes, I train with the lights on. ;-)  I imagine schools (who also teach with the lights on, and who probably can recognize some obvious value of and benefits to electronic device use) recognize the same difference, and while some are making strides in using iPads as part of their instruction, none that I know of allow students to use their own personal electronic devices in class.

3.  See above.

[jkwilliams]

24 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Not sure what you're talking about, here, but respectfully, it appears you're reading a tone of defensiveness into my writing that isn't part of my intent.  I'm participating in a discussion, as is the intent and purpose of this board.

The above comment is a Strawman argument.  At no time did I say that I didn't understand LDS doctrine, or that I failed to find it stimulating.  On the contrary, I often found (and continue to find) value in studying and discussion of all sorts of theology.

It's important for each of us to find edification and value within our spiritual life, and I'm glad you're walking a path that you find fulfilling. 

Indeed, while I find LDS doctrine endlessly fascinating and always have, sacrament meetings are occasionally interesting, but not often "stimulating." When people tell me they are always engaged and spiritually uplifted by sacrament meetings, I tend to be a little dubious.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

1- Simply not true. EVERYONE does not have a hymnal. In the overflow we rarely have hymnals. We have 50-75 in the overflow every week and none of those people have a hymnal. Therefore, if I want to sing I need to have my ipad-mini or my phone. That's just reality.

2- Yes, a person could do those things but I don't see how making notes on a pad of paper is any better than making notes on the ipad.

3- You are assuming that electronic devices are a distraction but I haven't seen how/why they would be. We're not in a blackened room watching a movie where any light source becomes a distraction. If it is justified for someone to ask another person to leave for quietly reading on an ipad then would it also be justified for me to ask someone to leave if they are reading their scriptures, writing on a notepad, sharing a picture book with their children?

The point is that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to utilize electronics. Banning them all because some people may misuse them is a lazy solution. Frankly, just because someone has a preference against electronics is not sufficient reason for me to obey their preference. It's just as presumptuous for other to inflict their preference on my as it would be for me to inflict my preference upon them.

 

He just doesn't understand the realities of being LDS today.  I am sure he is not racist, just uninformed.

I visited a Spanish ward today- about half our stake speaks Spanish only, and then we have a Samoan ward as well.  We had General Stake Priesthood last night where literally half the congregation were singing their lungs out in Spanish and half in English as we belted out "Ye Elders of Israel"  UNIFIED despite our different languages!!  There was not a dry eye in the house!!  And how did we do it?  With books, we would have needed full sets of hymnbooks in three languages.  Electronic devices made it possible- everyone had the words and music in their own languages- despite the paucity of Samoan hymnbooks

Should each stake center have a full set of hymnbooks for each congregation which meets there?  

Quote

 

Los Angeles which means “The Angels” in spanish is one of the most populated cities in the United States and is the most populated in California. It is located in southern California and is known for the sun and beach. L.A. is home to more than 16 million people and continues to grow every year. Almost half of the population is of Hispanic descent and that number continues to grow every year. Los Angeles is also home to the University of Southern California and the University of California, Los Angeles which combine to almost 80,000 students. L.A. is also known for having the most sports teams located in one city in all of the United States. It has the L.A. Dodgers (baseball), L.A. Kings (Hockey), L.A. Clippers (Basketball), L.A. Lakers (Basketball), L.A. Sparks (Women’s Basketball), and L.A. Galaxy (Soccer), but no professional football team.

This melting pot of a city comprises of people from more than 140 countries who speak more than 200 languages. It has ethnic communities known as: Chinatown, Koreatown, Filipinotown, Thai Town, Little Tokyo, and Little Ethiopia.

 

..... which of course cross stake boundaries. 

http://missionhome.com/?missions=california-los-angeles-mission

Our mission teaches in 20 languages at least as I recall.

Not all of us live in Beaver Utah.

I was in Poland last year and happily sang away in English while everyone else was singing in Polish.  Yes- there were a few other tourists doing the same, but again the EXPERIENCE of being unified despite the language issue is a powerful experience, all possible because of electronic devices- which were ubiquitous in the room.

[mfbukowski]

On 6/23/2016 at 9:13 PM, 6EQUJ5 said:

So you wouldn't sustain the bishop?

I've always been taught that the bishop has stewardship and presides over Sunday meetings.  Especially sacrament meeting.  Not sure how I feel about ignoring his counsel.

On the other hand, everyone could show up in the relief society room and use their devices as they wanted without being disobedient.

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Maybe this is just coincidence, but my family tells me that yesterday our bishop here in Virginia expressed his concern at the excessive use of electronic devices at church and counseled people to put them away except when absolutely necessary (apparently he didn't define when that would be). I wonder if this has come up in leadership training meetings. 

Nope

[mfbukowski]

54 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Indeed, while I find LDS doctrine endlessly fascinating and always have, sacrament meetings are occasionally interesting, but not often "stimulating." When people tell me they are always engaged and spiritually uplifted by sacrament meetings, I tend to be a little dubious.

Which of course was never said.  Where have you seen that said?  Here?

[cynth]

Quote

I visited a Spanish ward today- about half our stake speaks Spanish only, and then we have a Samoan ward as well.  We had General Stake Priesthood last night where literally half the congregation were singing their lungs out in Spanish and half in English as we belted out "Ye Elders of Israel"  UNIFIED despite our different languages!!  There was not a dry eye in the house!!  And how did we do it?  With books, we would have needed full sets of hymnbooks in three languages.  Electronic devices made it possible- everyone had the words and music in their own languages- despite the paucity of Samoan hymnbooks

That's lovely, mfbukowski... in fact amazing since the standard lds hymnal app doesn't seem to have a Samoan translation for 'Ye Elders of Isreal' in it. What app does your stake use? How DID you do it?

[jkwilliams]

15 minutes ago, cynth said:

That's lovely, mfbukowski... in fact amazing since the standard lds hymnal app doesn't seem to have a Samoan translation for 'Ye Elders of Isreal' in it. What app does your stake use? How DID you do it?

Reminds me of being in the MTC with hundreds of other missionaries, all singing in different languages. It was quite stirring, indeed. 

[cynth]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Should each stake center have a full set of hymnbooks for each congregation which meets there?  

Yes, absolutely.  If a congregation is organized why would it not be provided for exactly as any other congregation is provided for?  What is the rationale for skimping on resources?  Simply because they don't speak your language??

 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, cynth said:

Yes, absolutely.  If a congregation is organized why would it not be provided for exactly as any other congregation is provided for?  What is the rationale for skimping on resources?  Simply because they don't speak your language??

 

The last place we lived in Utah had a Tongan ward that met in our building. They had bookshelves on wheels containing hymn books, which would be moved to by the doors before the meetings started. As we came into sacrament meeting, we took a hymnal from the shelf and then put it back after the meeting. The system worked quite well. 

[Daniel2]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

He just doesn't understand the realities of being LDS today.  I am sure he is not racist, just uninformed.

I visited a Spanish ward today- about half our stake speaks Spanish only, and then we have a Samoan ward as well.  We had General Stake Priesthood last night where literally half the congregation were singing their lungs out in Spanish and half in English as we belted out "Ye Elders of Israel"  UNIFIED despite our different languages!!  There was not a dry eye in the house!!  And how did we do it?  With books, we would have needed full sets of hymnbooks in three languages.  Electronic devices made it possible- everyone had the words and music in their own languages- despite the paucity of Samoan hymnbooks

Should each stake center have a full set of hymnbooks for each congregation which meets there?  

I was in Poland last year and happily sang away in English while everyone else was singing in Polish.  Yes- there were a few other tourists doing the same, but again the EXPERIENCE of being unified despite the language issue is a powerful experience, all possible because of electronic devices- which were ubiquitous in the room.

"Racist"....?  I chuckled at those opening comments, mfb, because I was raised in an international LDS stake in Europe.  In our stake chapel, three different branches met, and in the pews, we had three sets of hymnbooks: one English, one French, and one Flemish...  That was standard for many meetinghouses hosting congregations speaking a plurality of languages.  The same was and is true of both meeting houses I frequented during my mission in South America, as well as  my family's meetinghouses in California... several of our chapels had both English and Spanish hymnals. 

So, in my experience, yes, its very commonplace for each stake center have a full set of hymnbooks for each congregation which meets there.  I don't see anything unusual about that, and it's certainly not racist.

Now, on rare occasions when combined congregations or Stakes have an unexpected influx of foreign-speaking visitors, or occasional non-native-speaking visitors, and there aren't resources to allow the use of printed materials, do I view it as appropriate to allow the use of electronics during the meetings...?  Of course that's reasonable.  But that's arguing from the fringe/exceptions, rather than the general rule.

[cynth]

1 hour ago, Daniel2 said:

and it's certainly not racist.

I don't know where mfbukowsi's comment about racism came from, it really seemed out of left field to me, and is certainly inappropriate.  Please don't think others are making that assessment, because NO ONE is. Just ignore him.