Bishop Bans Electronic Devices

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

People who use their iPhones, iPads, smart phones, etc., during church meetings don't need a ban on usage, they need information about addiction. The church should publish qualified, researched, substantial information about the signs of addiction and how it applies to modern media usage. Anyone who can't handle 5 minutes of boredom has a real problem.

As a school teacher and administrator for many, many years I have seen how the misuse of smart phones is a disease, a curse. We need much more than gentle urging from the pulpit. 

[ladyshanae]

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, we could do the Whip & Nae Nae in her honor. instead:   

 .

LOL Thanks for the laugh! My kids tease me with this all the time!

[ladyshanae]

43 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, we could do the Whip & Nae Nae in her honor. instead:   

 .

And I just realized this is Curry's kid and can't decide if I should be honored by the NaeNae or offended because it's Curry's kid.

#Believeland

[flameburns623]

17 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And the seer stone...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BG7QoiWDyB6/

 

 

[JulieM]

On June 23, 2016 at 1:37 PM, 6EQUJ5 said:

This past Sunday our Bishop announced that electronic devices such as phones and tablets would no longer be allowed in the chapel.  He said that these devices detract from the Spirit of Sunday meetings and that using these devices in the Chapel was disrespectful.  He also mentioned that this ban may be extended to all Sunday meetings, and not just those held in the chapel as he's received a number of complaints from teachers and others.

Ouch!

How can he enforce this?  

Edited June 25, 2016 by JulieM

[Teancum]

6 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

People who use their iPhones, iPads, smart phones, etc., during church meetings don't need a ban on usage, they need information about addiction. The church should publish qualified, researched, substantial information about the signs of addiction and how it applies to modern media usage. Anyone who can't handle 5 minutes of boredom has a real problem.

As a school teacher and administrator for many, many years I have seen how the misuse of smart phones is a disease, a curse. We need much more than gentle urging from the pulpit. 

How this is relevant to my response to Scott I'm not clear on.

[cinepro]

9 hours ago, consiglieri said:

I have no problem with a bishop telling people to ditch their electronic devices completely from any church meetings.  The opportunity for abuse is just too great.

Why should people be able to entertain themselves with a computer game instead of listening to a boring talk or lesson they have heard a million times before?

But this gets at the real problem, I think.

The problem is that people are bored to death at church and look for any way to alleviate the situation.

If church were actually engaging and interesting, the problem would largely go away of its own accord.

Telling people they can't use electronic devices is just an excuse to let the boredom continue rather than making any substantive change for the better.

There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.  In the last few years, it seems I've never been a movie theater where the movie was so entertaining that someone didn't pull their phone out at least once.  I'm sorry, but if people can't make it through a Star Wars or Jurassic Park movie without needing to look at their phone, I'm not going to suggest that there is any level of performance that could be obtained during a Church lesson that would quell the impulse.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.  In the last few years, it seems I've never been a movie theater where the movie was so entertaining that someone didn't pull their phone out at least once.  I'm sorry, but if people can't make it through a Star Wars or Jurassic Park movie without needing to look at their phone, I'm not going to suggest that there is any level of performance that could be obtained during a Church lesson that would quell the impulse.

I have to agree here.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

People who use their iPhones, iPads, smart phones, etc., during church meetings don't need a ban on usage, they need information about addiction. The church should publish qualified, researched, substantial information about the signs of addiction and how it applies to modern media usage. Anyone who can't handle 5 minutes of boredom has a real problem.

As a school teacher and administrator for many, many years I have seen how the misuse of smart phones is a disease, a curse. We need much more than gentle urging from the pulpit. 

Most people are not addicted. Very very few are. Something happening regularly is not a sign of addiction. I try to say prayers regularly but I can guarantee you I am not addicted to prayer. I can quit any time.

Edited June 25, 2016 by The Nehor

[Calm]

I have gotten emergency calls at times at church about my mom.  I also have it set so my daughter, who is diabetic, can contact me.  If I want to leave the house at times, I need to have this option.  Congregations and movie theatre groups are big enough I wouldn't be surprised if this is what is happening (when it isn't obvious they forgot to turn it off) though I would not also be surprised if it was just someone who felt common courtesy didn't apply to them.  Then there is the odd doctor.  One ward we were in, one guy was always getting called out (iirc, he was an obgyn).

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I will never forget it. He got quite emotional as he announced it from the pulpit. He was released a couple of months later, and things went back to normal. 

Heh. Reminds me of Captain Qweeg in "The Caine Mutiny."

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Last one:

https://www.lds.org/media-library/using-me

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Last one:

https://www.lds.org/media-library/using-media-for-lessons?lang=eng

dia-for-lessons?lang=eng

These are all good and useful resources, but I don't see anything in any of them that clearly endorses or promotes the banning of electronic device use at church when it can reasonably be supposed that one might put them to reasonably appropriate uses, such as looking up scriptures, hymn singing, finding an answer to a gospel question, locating a reference to teach others as part of one's calling, familiarizing oneself with who holds particular ward or stake callings, learning more about individuals in a family so as to minister more effectively to them, etc. 

So I still say a bishop who bans their use is looking beyond the mark and worse: infringing on personal agency. 

The very presence of the rich resource content provided by the Church that is accessible via personal electronic devices suggests that the Church expects those resources to be used -- in Sabbath worship services as well as in family or personal settings. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, JulieM said:

Ouch!

How can he enforce this?  

6EQ answers this later in the thread. He's going to have the edict printed permanently in the ward bulletin/sacrament meeting program and re-announce it from the pulpit from time to time. 

My hunch is there will be enough pushback and/or ignoring of the directive over time that it will gradually fade away. These things have a way of dying a natural death. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Teancum said:

Odd that you would so readily question the inspiration and authority of a a local leader.  Yet I highly doubt you would ever question anything with such vigor common from the FP and Q of 12.  

And if you disagree with your local bishop about a perceived abuse why not just ignore it?  Why go up the chain?  Can't you just decide yourself?  

This is not s discussion about things the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve do that bug you. It's about a single local leader making a highly irregular mandate that arguably misuses authority and infringes needlessly on individuals' personal agency. When that happens, it ought to be brought to the attention of those higher in authority, who might make a correction as happened last year with the stake president who endeavored on his own initiative to shorten the time of Sabbath day worship services by an hour. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[mfbukowski]

On 6/23/2016 at 2:22 PM, Daniel2 said:

It seems to me that in today's day and age this is a common courtesy.

In the church that I attend now, every week whoever is conducting the meeting asks everyone present to please turn off any electronic devices so that we may all enjoy the spirit of the gathering.

As a trainer my profession, I begin every training by asking all attendees to please turn off their cell phones and other electronic devices so as not to disrupt our learning together.

Heck, even movie theaters make a big deal about asking everyone to turn off their cell phones and electronic devices to allow everyone to enjoy the movie free from distractions.

Surely Latter-day Saints don't regard their worship of the divine as any less deserving of reverence, attention, or respect...?

if you have to be on your phone to get through a meeting, maybe you need to reevaluate your attendance…

 

Perhaps you do not understand that it is easier to carry a cellphone or tablet than a triple combination, Bible, teacher's manual and hymnbook, if needed. Oh yes and the priesthood lesson manual. And the leadership handbook, if relevant. I use mine for all of the above, and can check stake information reports, membership lists and anything else I need, and all this fits in my pocket.

And I promise I have never played a game once.

Occasionally I have texted the stake president though with relevant information he has asked me to get him, or sent him an urgent message about a particular member's urgent need I just discovered.

I suspect that is not relevant in your church.

We all need to be more disciplined about using these devices though, no question about it.

Banning anything leads to putting genuine needs "into the closet", and we don't want that, do we?

[consiglieri]

10 hours ago, cinepro said:

There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.  In the last few years, it seems I've never been a movie theater where the movie was so entertaining that someone didn't pull their phone out at least once.  I'm sorry, but if people can't make it through a Star Wars or Jurassic Park movie without needing to look at their phone, I'm not going to suggest that there is any level of performance that could be obtained during a Church lesson that would quell the impulse.

Good point!

But not if you're talking about recent movies in either franchise.  

 

[ALarson]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is not s discussion about things the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve do that bug you. It's about a single local leader making a highly irregular mandate that arguably misuses authority and infringes needlessly on individuals' personal agency. When that happens, it ought to be brought to the attention of those higher in authority, who might make a correction as happened last year with the stake president who endeavored on his own initiative to shorten the time of Sabbath day worship services by an hour. 

I don't know if this has been posted, as I haven't read the entire thread, but here is a statement by Elder Ballard:

Quote

Surely we can expect that cell phones and ipads and games and food can be set aside for one precious hour out of 168 hours in a week for the sacrament meeting that is devoted to Heavenly Father and his beloved son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

So maybe put them away for sacrament meeting, but allow them in the other church meetings?  I don't know.  I know that many use them during sacrament meeting for scriptures and hymns.  This Bishop's ban is extreme, IMO.

[mfbukowski]

On 6/23/2016 at 1:37 PM, 6EQUJ5 said:

This past Sunday our Bishop announced that electronic devices such as phones and tablets would no longer be allowed in the chapel.  He said that these devices detract from the Spirit of Sunday meetings and that using these devices in the Chapel was disrespectful.  He also mentioned that this ban may be extended to all Sunday meetings, and not just those held in the chapel as he's received a number of complaints from teachers and others.

I don't know of another ward with this policy and other members of my Stake told me their bishops havent said anything about it so I don't this this is a Stake-wide thing.

Has anyone else seen this in their wards or stakes?  

I'm torn.  I love having my iPad with all of the scriptures and hymns in one place that is easy to search and mark up.  But I also see a a handful of ward members playing games and even watching videos so I understand what the bishop is trying to do.

Q

If this was in our Stake he would have to kick the Stake President out of the chapel.

And the last Stake President for that matter.

Yes- teach self discipline against improper use, but for pete's sake this is the 21st century!  I don't want to go back to carrying a 30 pound briefcase every Sunday.

Edited June 25, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, ALarson said:

I don't know if this has been posted, as I haven't read the entire thread, but here is a statement by Elder Ballard:

So maybe put them away for sacrament meeting, but allow them in the other church meetings?  I don't know.  I know that many use them during sacrament meeting for scriptures and hymns.  This Bishop's ban is extreme, IMO.

I can't imagine he would object to looking up a scripture on a device during sacrament meeting -- or even during the sacrament itself. In the old days I sometimes did that with hard-copy scriptures to help focus my mind on the Atonement. How is it any different if I do the same thing with my iPod touch?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I can't imagine he would object to looking up a scripture on a device during sacrament meeting -- or even during the sacrament itself. In the old days I sometimes did that with hard-copy scriptures to help focus my mind on the Atonement. How is it any different if I do the same thing with my iPod touch?

In theory it is not.  The real problem, and the only problem I see is that LOTS of people say they are doing this, but from what I have seen rarely is this what is happening.  It's games, videos, facebook posting etc.  A little better, but not great - I have seen a LOT of people doing last minute lesson planning.  And guess what?  On occasion I have been one of those.  For me it has been, "What was that quote that related to this talk? ....Better send myself a reminder to ________....  While I'm on I'll check ______."  

So in theory I agree with you, especially since I may do things like I mention above that may seem like I am against the idea of not having cell phones, but in all honesty I would bet that 90% of the cell phone use in sacrament meeting is pulling one away from the Spirit of the meeting.  Without the information the bishop in this ward has then I can't make a judgment on the man so I figure if I were in the ward I would thoughtfully consider it and then pray over it if I felt that I couldn't or shouldn't abide by the ban.  

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

These are all good and useful resources, but I don't see anything in any of them that clearly endorses or promotes the banning of electronic device use at church when it can reasonably be supposed that one might put them to reasonably appropriate uses, such as looking up scriptures, hymn singing, finding an answer to a gospel question, locating a reference to teach others as part of one's calling, familiarizing oneself with who holds particular ward or stake callings, learning more about individuals in a family so as to minister more effectively to them, etc. 

So I still say a bishop who bans their use is looking beyond the mark and worse: infringing on personal agency. 

The very presence of the rich resource content provided by the Church that is accessible via personal electronic devices suggests that the Church expects those resources to be used -- in Sabbath worship services as well as in family or personal settings. 

I was thinking something might be useful in them supporting the use at least during other meetings.  Lot of it was tangential, but might be used for demonstrating a positive attitude towards the use of such tech in general.  Mainly I was just passing time though.

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

In theory it is not.  The real problem, and the only problem I see is that LOTS of people say they are doing this, but from what I have seen rarely is this what is happening.  It's games, videos, facebook posting etc.  A little better, but not great - I have seen a LOT of people doing last minute lesson planning.  And guess what?  On occasion I have been one of those.  For me it has been, "What was that quote that related to this talk? ....Better send myself a reminder to ________....  While I'm on I'll check ______."  

So in theory I agree with you, especially since I may do things like I mention above that may seem like I am against the idea of not having cell phones, but in all honesty I would bet that 90% of the cell phone use in sacrament meeting is pulling one away from the Spirit of the meeting.  Without the information the bishop in this ward has then I can't make a judgment on the man so I figure if I were in the ward I would thoughtfully consider it and then pray over it if I felt that I couldn't or shouldn't abide by the ban.  

So because some people (and you have no way of knowing whether it's 90 percent or something less than that) misuse the convenience, we're going to ban it outright? Doesn't that open a can of all manner of worms? Shall we forbid the use of the Internet because some use it for pornography or gambling or simply wasting time?

isn't the better approach to teach people the appropriate use of technology and then leave them to exercise wisdom on their own? Isn't that the spirit of Joseph Smith's statement "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves"?

Furthermore, I got the impression from the OP that the bishop is not just concerned about inappropriate use. Rather, he believes that the very presence of the devices in the chapel during sacrament meeting is "disrespectful" and not in keeping with the Sabbath. This strikes me as extremely subjective and ill-considered. 

Incidentally, in the meetings I attend, I observe little-to-none of what might be construed as game-playing or carrying on texting conversations. Perhaps it's because I'm focused on the spiritual content of the meeting as opposed to gazing around and forming judgments on what I suspect others are doing at the moment. 

Edited to add:

I see nothing wrong with your writing a memo to yourself about a quote relating to a talk (scarcely different than note taking) or even doing a web search on the spot for the quote  

 

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[jkwilliams]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Incidentally, in the meetings I attend, I observe little-to-none of what might be construed as game-playing or carrying on texting conversations. Perhaps it's because I'm focused on the spiritual content of the meeting as opposed to gazing around and forming judgments on what I suspect others are doing at the moment. 

You're missing the best parts of the meeting. 

[escott3564]

On June 24, 2016 at 0:28 AM, bluebell said:

I think if it were me, i would completely disagree with his decision, but still follow his counsel in sacrament meeting (not in the other meetings though).  

I would simply stop going to Sacrament Meeting. I have all my scriptures and lesson manuals  on my phone. I see nothing wrong with referring to those during Sacrament. My son is autistic and having his IPad helps him concentrate better. I strongly disagree with the complete ban on these things during Sacrament. How will this be enforced?  Temple recommends being yanked?  Release from callings?

[bluebell]

39 minutes ago, escott3564 said:

I would simply stop going to Sacrament Meeting. I have all my scriptures and lesson manuals  on my phone. I see nothing wrong with referring to those during Sacrament. My son is autistic and having his IPad helps him concentrate better. I strongly disagree with the complete ban on these things during Sacrament. How will this be enforced?  Temple recommends being yanked?  Release from callings?

You would choose to miss out on the blessings of taking the sacrament rather than not use electronics for an hour?