Polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom

[phaedrus ut]

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

 

Phaedrus 

[RevTestament]

6 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

 

Phaedrus 

It is reasonable for the wife to say no, unless commanded by the Lord. However, no one can take another wife in the celestial kingdom once resurrected - that would be false doctrine.

Edited May 18, 2016 by RevTestament

[Bernard Gui]

11 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

 

Phaedrus 

Alma 37:11

11 Now these mysteries are not yet fully made known unto me; therefore I shall forbear.

[phaedrus ut]

5 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

It is reasonable for the wife to say no, unless commanded by the Lord. However, no one can take another wife in the celestial kingdom once resurrected - that would be false doctrine.

So a resurrected single women will remain single for eternity(unless she finds a single man)?  

[JLHPROF]

Absolutely unreasonable.
Not because they don't have their agency, but because IF (and it is still a big if) living polygamy is ever a necessary part of their progression, you are asking someone to say "I will progress this far in the eternities and no farther, I will obey God's commands but only in some things".

As Joseph Smith said on this issue “Sister, you talk very foolishly, you do not know what you will want.”

Nobody has the right to ask a person to place limits on their eternal progression.  That person will always have the right to stop progressing, but that is their choice.
If they enter into their exaltation and stand before the Father ready to move on in the work of the Gods, and the Father says "in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood" (which according to the early saints meant plural marriage as it did all through the 19th century) then obedience is the first law of heaven.

Whatever God requires (or rather eternal laws require) is right.  Nobody has the reasonable right to ask you to refuse to follow an eternal law when it is commanded and authorized.

10 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

t is reasonable for the wife to say no, unless commanded by the Lord. However, no one can take another wife in the celestial kingdom once resurrected - that would be false doctrine.

Good point.  Any polygamous sealings entered into posthumously will be prior to resurrection and final judgement, and a part of the 1000 years of temple work.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by JLHPROF

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

So a resurrected single women will remain single for eternity(unless she finds a single man)?  

No, she will have the opportunity to be sealed into a family posthumously BEFORE her resurrection, as part of vicarious work for the dead.
And that man may or may not be single at the time.

Edited May 18, 2016 by JLHPROF

[Tacenda]

Even in my TBM days I didn't think I'd have to live polygamy.  We never really discussed it much in our marriage, which really makes me wonder why I reacted so badly on first learning that JS followed through on his polygamy.  I'd only saw that he was commanded to live it ("The Work and the Glory" book series) and deep down never believed God would do that even then.  Apparently the church didn't feel comfortable telling it like it really was and the extent he went.  I don't even think the church believes we'll have to live polygamy in order to achieve Godhood.  If they did, I don't believe they'd distance themselves from it as much as they do.  It's like they're ashamed of it ever having existed or it's ties to the LDS church, IMO.  

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

  I don't even think the church believes we'll have to live polygamy in order to achieve Godhood.  If they did, I don't believe they'd distance themselves from it as much as they do.  

I think the Church 100% believes that to achieve Godhood we will have to do/be willing to do ANYTHING that God commands or that law requires of us.
Right now God is not commanding polygamy and gospel law is not requiring it right now, so the Church would be right that we don't need to live it on our journey to Godhood right now.

The question is will that ever change again?  Can we ever achieve perfection when there is a gospel law that extends into the eternities that we refuse to follow?  What if the objectionable law was baptism?

[RevTestament]

1 minute ago, phaedrus ut said:

So a resurrected single women will remain single for eternity(unless she finds a single man)?  

You are asking someone who doesn't quite believe that way. My answer is yes and no. Yes, that is her status forever, and she cannot have an increase.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

I do believe there is a way to change that, and that is to follow a plan to return to another world. Then you are no longer "out of the world." BTW that is not generally accepted "doctrine" I suppose.

[organicpeas]

I told my husband if he wants additional wives in heaven then I'm taking additional husbands.  If he thinks it's ok to sleep in other women's beds than it should be just fine for me to do the same. 

My 70 year old mother was swearing like a sailor the last time I heard her and her home teachers talking about polygamy.  Apparently one of the home teachers is convinced that all men wanting exaltation need to be polygamist.  Needless to say she didn't agree. 

[Eek!]

Here are a few things that I think are worth being aware of regarding polygamy, whether in this world or the next: 

1.  Polyandry is a distinct possibility.  From D&C 132:41:  "if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Now what if it HAS BEEN "appointed unto her by the holy anointing [whatever that means]"?  The clear implication is, in that case, she hath not committed adultery but is innocent.  So... guys, there is a very real possibility that you may be required to "share".  Can you do it as easily as you can ask it of your wife?   If God really is fair, then start getting used to the idea!

2.  There is definitely more to the story that what we have now.  There is at least one more revelation on the subject that we have not seen yet.  From the very last verse of Section 132:  "And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present." 

3.  Polygamy may have been the precursor of something higher that we know almost nothing about.  I do not have access to the names and dates because I no longer have the books I once did, but years ago I looked at the timelines of Joseph's plural marriages vs when he formed the Quorum of the Anointed.  He was entering into plural marriages at a fairly rapid pace UP UNTIL THEN,   He entered into just one more, with an elderly lady, shortly after the Quorum of the Anointed was formed.  And then he stopped altogether.   I do not think that was a coincidence.  His focus was always on the highest that he knew, and his focus obviously changed dramatically.  I'd sure like to know WHY.

Is it possible that the true order of Heaven will be closer to the Quorum of the Anointed than to polygamy?  Too bad we know so little about it. 

 

 

 

 

[Ahab]

3 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

 

Phaedrus 

Sure, I think it's a reasonable thing to ask.

Asking it several times, even, over many years. 

I've promised my wife that I wouldn't take any additional wives, as long as she isn't comfortable with the idea.  And I've assured her repeatedly that I really don't want to have any other woman as my wife, as long as I can have her.

But we both understand that we could both change our minds, especially if God actually commanded us to accept another woman as a wife in our marriage. 

Or we both could still stick to our guns and unequivocally refuse to ever have another wife in our marriage. 

Time will tell, I suppose.  

Promises don't necessarily need to last for forever and the main thing is to do whatever feels right.

[Garden Girl]

1 hour ago, organicpeas said:

I told my husband if he wants additional wives in heaven then I'm taking additional husbands.  If he thinks it's ok to sleep in other women's beds than it should be just fine for me to do the same. 

My 70 year old mother was swearing like a sailor the last time I heard her and her home teachers talking about polygamy.  Apparently one of the home teachers is convinced that all men wanting exaltation need to be polygamist.  Needless to say she didn't agree. 

Hello organicpeas... 

 I never quite understand discussions such as this... we really have no actual knowledge of what type of physical relationship there will be between eternal companions... In my personal view,  I do not believe we will have the same procreative process as we have in this world, i.e., I don't think my husband would be sleeping in "other women's beds" should we ever be commanded to live polygamy... (Isa 55:8-9... for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.   For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.)

In my opinion, polygamous families would live together in perfect love and cooperation to the glory of God... and we would join in whatever type of creative activities that are God's ways, which he clearly says are higher than ours.  And I'm thinking something much different than earth's puny practices... I'm even thinking something along the lines of Petrie dishes (ha)... yes that's gross speculation also... but more realistic to me than "our ways" which God clearly eschews.

There is nothing in God's kingdom that will not be perfect and for our benefit and happiness.  So this whole question of polygamy being tied to our actions in this sphere creates, to me, unnecessary angst.

from the beach on a lovely, warm afternoon... GG

[bcuzbcuz]

4 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

 

Phaedrus 

My wife, soon after we went through the temple and with a good education about Brigham Young¨s polygamy and a conviction about Joseph Smith¨s, informed me that the day I would take a second wife would be the same as asking her to leave. I told her then and I¨m equally sure now that polygamy, no matter promise nor threat, would ever be something I would do. I personally view polygamy as an abomination.

[stemelbow]

4 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Something I've heard from many LDS couples, and something asked of me, is that the wife does not want any sort of polygamist relationship and she asks her husband to promise not to take another wife when they go to the Celestial kingdom.  One close friend of mine even went to her father and made him to promise not to take a polygamist wife.  Is this something you've discussed in your marriage? Is it unreasonable for someone to ask this of their husband or parent? 

I wouldnt' sweat a worthy wife will welcome more wives once they all get a chance to see the great eternal benefit of such a situation.  Oh wait...

[Mystery Meat]

43 minutes ago, Eek! said:

Here are a few things that I think are worth being aware of regarding polygamy, whether in this world or the next: 

1.  Polyandry is a distinct possibility.  From D&C 132:41:  "if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

Now what if it HAS BEEN "appointed unto her by the holy anointing [whatever that means]"?  The clear implication is, in that case, she hath not committed adultery but is innocent.  So... guys, there is a very real possibility that you may be required to "share".  Can you do it as easily as you can ask it of your wife?   If God really is fair, then start getting used to the idea!

 

I think your interpretation is wrong. The "ands" applies to all three. Meaning all three of the above criteria have to apply. Polyandry or not, this verse does not justify it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Mystery Meat

[Mystery Meat]

15 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

My wife, soon after we went through the temple and with a good education about Brigham Young¨s polygamy and a conviction about Joseph Smith¨s, informed me that the day I would take a second wife would be the same as asking her to leave. I told her then and I¨m equally sure now that polygamy, no matter promise nor threat, would ever be something I would do. I personally view polygamy as an abomination.

Hypothetical: If you had to choose between (a) living as a single man, or (b) living with your current wife, but only with other wives, which would you choose?

[VideoGameJunkie]

I have a hard enough time just getting a girl to go on a date with me.

[Eek!]

6 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

I think your interpretation is wrong. The "ands" applies to all three. Meaning all three of the above criteria have to apply. Polyandry or not, this verse does not justify it.

Then why is it specified, "if... I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing"?  If it makes no difference either way, why is that even in there? 

The implication is that it does make a difference. 

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, organicpeas said:

I told my husband if he wants additional wives in heaven then I'm taking additional husbands.  If he thinks it's ok to sleep in other women's beds than it should be just fine for me to do the same. 

My 70 year old mother was swearing like a sailor the last time I heard her and her home teachers talking about polygamy.  Apparently one of the home teachers is convinced that all men wanting exaltation need to be polygamist.  Needless to say she didn't agree. 

I love your response to your husband..would you share his reply?

[organicpeas]

13 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I love your response to your husband..would you share his reply?

It's started with him correcting me that women can't take additional husbands because plural marriage is a right of the priesthood. I retorted that if he's a king and a priest who can take additional wives then I will be a queen and priestess and I should have the same power. 

He is a bit traditional and doesn't see the hypocracy of the situation. 

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, organicpeas said:

It's started with him correcting me that women can't take additional husbands because plural marriage is a right of the priesthood. I retorted that if he's a king and a priest who can take additional wives then I will be a queen and priestess and I should have the same power. 

He is a bit traditional and doesn't see the hypocracy of the situation. 

You were right though.  He can't be a king without you.  The thing is, Joseph was supposed to get Emm'a s approval..that did not always happen. I think men will be surprised if there isn't a turnabout in play.  Yo..I aim would aim to convert a very handsome man who is waiting for you!  Thanks so much for your reply.

[carbon dioxide]

All of us have view on issues based on our current knowledge and the society were have been brought up with.   I think once one has spend enough time in the spirit world or the Celestial Kingdom, their views on a lot of things will be changed.  Polygamy may not be that big of a deal to those there even though it was a problem for them in mortality.  Unless one believes there is conflict between people in the Celestial Kingdom,  there is no anger or contention between those who are polygamists and those that are not.  They treat each other beautifully well.

Edited May 18, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[VideoGameJunkie]

My Patriarchal blessing talks about being sealed to one woman, not multiple.

[Mystery Meat]

1 hour ago, Eek! said:

Then why is it specified, "if... I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing"?  If it makes no difference either way, why is that even in there? 

The implication is that it does make a difference. 

Your ellipses left out quite a bit of language.