Polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom

[JLHPROF]

55 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

There is no support for their hopeful fantasizing. A man who is sealed to one woman and delights in fantasizing about a future kingdom of multiple wives is a corrupt and sinful being. He is no better than a wanton glutton lusting after 72 virgins. Polygamy is disgusting. 

 

49 minutes ago, juliann said:

I don't know that I would go that far, buz, but I do think Mormon men who gather to talk about women other than their wives should be called into their bishop's office.

 

Just now, bcuzbcuz said:

We agree on that.

 

- I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all.

[VideoGameJunkie]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

I don't know that I would go that far, buz, but I do think Mormon men who gather to talk about women other than their wives should be called into their bishop's office.

What about my 2 uncles who are sealed to 2 women each and Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks who are all sealed to multiple women. Are they allowed to imagine a heaven with multiple wives?

[bcuzbcuz]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

 

 

 

- I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all.

So you are saying that male members of the church should prepare themselves to take additional wives, and that women of the church should prepare themselves to being placed in secondary positions and acquiesce to their husbands desires? 

[VideoGameJunkie]

1 minute ago, bcuzbcuz said:

So you are saying that male members of the church should prepare themselves to take additional wives, and that women of the church should prepare themselves to being placed in secondary positions and acquiesce to their husbands desires? 

Isn't that how the church was originally run by the prophets in the 1800s and our ancestors?

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

So you are saying that male members of the church should prepare themselves to take additional wives, and that women of the church should prepare themselves to being placed in secondary positions and acquiesce to their husbands desires? 

No.
I am saying that all these members stating point blank that they would stand in front of their creator and IF (big if) he said it was required would refuse to his face are being ridiculous.
No mortal tradition trumps the will of God.

You can speculate all you want that polygamy will never return and consider it to be evil.  That is no better than speculating that it will.
But the second God commands it, belief that a command of God is evil becomes apostasy.  And there is no more evidence that it is gone forever than there is that it will be restored again.  We don't know.

We DO know that eternal marriages are precisely that.  And that the Celestial Kingdom will contain polygamy, required or not.

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, juliann said:

I don't know that I would go that far, buz, but I do think Mormon men who gather to talk about women other than their wives should be called into their bishop's office.

Sorry- I missed something.  Where does this happen?

[VideoGameJunkie]

16 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Sorry- I missed something.  Where does this happen?

She claims on this board.

[SeekerB]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:20 PM, carbon dioxide said:

All of us have view on issues based on our current knowledge and the society were have been brought up with.   I think once one has spend enough time in the spirit world or the Celestial Kingdom, their views on a lot of things will be changed.  Polygamy may not be that big of a deal to those there even though it was a problem for them in mortality.  Unless one believes there is conflict between people in the Celestial Kingdom,  there is no anger or contention between those who are polygamists and those that are not.  They treat each other beautifully well.

My thoughts as well.  Our feelings on polygamy are based only on our earthly life. Once the veil is lifted from our minds, we will have memories of many thousands of years of life in the pre-existance.  We might then have a very different viewpoint on polygamy.

[Teancum]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

No.
I am saying that all these members stating point blank that they would stand in front of their creator and IF (big if) he said it was required would refuse to his face are being ridiculous.
No mortal tradition trumps the will of God.

You can speculate all you want that polygamy will never return and consider it to be evil.  That is no better than speculating that it will.
But the second God commands it, belief that a command of God is evil becomes apostasy.  And there is no more evidence that it is gone forever than there is that it will be restored again.  We don't know.

We DO know that eternal marriages are precisely that.  And that the Celestial Kingdom will contain polygamy, required or not.

I will believe LDS historical or futuristic polygamy is true when God tells me in person. But not through someone else who argues God can simply revoke and command whenever God wants.  It's just to convenient for the guy claiming God is telling him and he is now,telling us.

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I will believe LDS historical or futuristic polygamy is true when God tells me in person. But not through someone else who argues God can simply revoke and command whenever God wants.  It's just to convenient for the guy claiming God is telling him and he is now,telling us.

D&C 58 (given long before polygamy)
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.
30 Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?
31 Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?
32 I command and men obey not; I revoke and they receive not the blessing.
33 Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

I understand your POV, but prefer scriptural principles.

[bcuzbcuz]

12 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

No.
I am saying that all these members stating point blank that they would stand in front of their creator and IF (big if) he said it was required would refuse to his face are being ridiculous.
No mortal tradition trumps the will of God.

You can speculate all you want that polygamy will never return and consider it to be evil.  That is no better than speculating that it will.
But the second God commands it, belief that a command of God is evil becomes apostasy.  And there is no more evidence that it is gone forever than there is that it will be restored again.  We don't know.

We DO know that eternal marriages are precisely that.  And that the Celestial Kingdom will contain polygamy, required or not.

You are wrong on several points. First of all, you presuppose a "face to face" meeting with God (you state...."refuse to his face") Just because someone dies doesn't mean they qualify to meet God face to face. Even after judgment very few will qualify for a face to face. 

Secondly, you say someone refusing God is "ridiculous". You need to study your old testament better. 

 Psalm 78:10-11, 40-42, 56-57, the psalmist mentions that Ephraim (meaning Israel at large)

did not keep the covenant of God; they refused to walk in His law, and forgot His works and His wonders that He had shown them. . . . How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, and grieved Him in the desert! Yes, again and again they tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. They did not remember His power. . . . Yet they tested and provoked the Most High God, and did not keep His testimonies, but turned back and acted unfaithfully like their fathers.

II Kings 17:7-8 

For so it was that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, who had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, . . . and they had feared other gods, and had walked in the statutes of the nations whom the LORD had cast out from before the children of Israel.

Jeremiah 32:30,  "[T]he children of Israel and the children of Judah have done only evil before Me from their youth."

  Read the complete story of Jonah. 

Read the old testament identifying how to know a false prophet.

21 And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?' — 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:21-22; NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted)

But it is not just enough that the prophet be right not to be false. Notice also the following:

1"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods' — which you have not known — 'and let us serve them,' 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. (Deuteronomy 13:1-4) 

So, if the prophet does not keep and advocate keeping God's commandments, he is also false. http://www.cogwriter.com/true-prophet.htm

 

 

[Teancum]

11 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

D&C 58 (given long before polygamy)
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.
30 Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments?
31 Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?
32 I command and men obey not; I revoke and they receive not the blessing.
33 Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above.

I understand your POV, but prefer scriptural principles.

The the the scriptures are also written by fallible humans who claim God is telling them thngs that may not be so.  

[juliann]

Gotta love the circular reasoning going on here. "I just know that I'm gonna get me a whole lotta wimmenz so here's some scripture that doesn't say that but means it!"

I'll betcha every single one of those with this heart thumping desire for more wimmenz imagine a heaven with sex. It might be the ultimate cosmic joke, they get their wish and then find out their spirit babies aren't made that way. 

[juliann]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

 

I understand your POV, but prefer scriptural principles.

And the rest of us prefer a straight forward announcement that polygamy is coming back from a prophet. That is how it was done the first time after all.

Um, is there any reason you have neglected to provide that?

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, juliann said:

Gotta love the circular reasoning going on here. "I just know that I'm gonna get me a whole lotta wimmenz so here's some scripture that doesn't say that but means it!"

I'll betcha every single one of those with this heart thumping desire for more wimmenz imagine a heaven with sex. It might be the ultimate cosmic joke, they get their wish and then find out their spirit babies aren't made that way. 

In some ways I liken the attitude you put forth here to that of the teaching in the Muslim faith, about the promise of 72 virgins, which totally disgusts me.  But I don't believe our JHLPROF believes like that, he's just more fundamentalist in his views, or true to the roots in his beliefs.  Of course I should let him speak for himself.  And I'm not saying you think of JHLPROF  like that either.   

[juliann]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

In some ways I liken the attitude you put forth here to that of the teaching in the Muslim faith, about the promise of 72 virgins, which totally disgusts me.  But I don't believe our JHLPROF believes like that, he's just more fundamentalist in his views, or true to the roots in his beliefs.  Of course I should let him speak for himself.  And I'm not saying you think of JHLPROF  like that either.   

I don't know the Muslim belief on this or how much of an unfair caricature it is. But I do think it describes what is being hoped for here quite well. And I do think men who repeatedly  fantasize and post about women other than their wives should be called into their bishop's office.

 

[Yirgacheffe]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:57 AM, JLHPROF said:

No, she will have the opportunity to be sealed into a family posthumously BEFORE her resurrection, as part of vicarious work for the dead.
And that man may or may not be single at the time.

So who decides who the woman will be sealed to posthumously?

[VideoGameJunkie]

3 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said:

So who decides who the woman will be sealed to posthumously?

I just hope the Lord will work everything out. I have faith Jesus will make everything right and in order during the Millennium.

[Garden Girl]

6 hours ago, juliann said:

Gotta love the circular reasoning going on here. "I just know that I'm gonna get me a whole lotta wimmenz so here's some scripture that doesn't say that but means it!"

I'll betcha every single one of those with this heart thumping desire for more wimmenz imagine a heaven with sex. It might be the ultimate cosmic joke, they get their wish and then find out their spirit babies aren't made that way. 

I too believe this... that our form of procreation is for this sphere... I think we get a clue from the way Adam was organized "in the garden" from the elements and his spirit put into his "body."  Even if the Garden story is allegorical, we can learn from it...

It was after he and Eve were banished to this dark and dreary world that sex became a factor.

GG

[VideoGameJunkie]

6 hours ago, juliann said:

Gotta love the circular reasoning going on here. "I just know that I'm gonna get me a whole lotta wimmenz so here's some scripture that doesn't say that but means it!"

I'll betcha every single one of those with this heart thumping desire for more wimmenz imagine a heaven with sex. It might be the ultimate cosmic joke, they get their wish and then find out their spirit babies aren't made that way. 

Sex in heaven may not be how spirit babies are formed, but I'm pretty positive a sealed husband and wife will be able to experience intimacy or a joy and connection and bond greater than that in an exalted state. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie

[JLHPROF]

6 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said:

So who decides who the woman will be sealed to posthumously?

She does of course.  Millennial work for the dead will be more two-way than we have now.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Multiple wives does mean multiple mothers in law and fathers in law.

[JLHPROF]

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:43 AM, juliann said:

And the rest of us prefer a straight forward announcement that polygamy is coming back from a prophet. That is how it was done the first time after all.

Um, is there any reason you have neglected to provide that?

Yes.  Common sense.

[Mystery Meat]

On 5/21/2016 at 4:33 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

What about my 2 uncles who are sealed to 2 women each and Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks who are all sealed to multiple women. Are they allowed to imagine a heaven with multiple wives?

Only if juliann says so.

[ttribe]

15 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Only if juliann says so.

Speaking of cheap drive-by insults....