Dog Sacrifice And Joseph Smith

[Peppermint Patty]

My sister-in-law just emailed me three different second hand accounts of dog sacrifice and Joseph Smith.  I've never heard anything like this before and it sure feels like some made up anti-Mormon accusations to me.

 

Can someone with more light and knowledge help me out on this?  Is this real or bogus? Have these accounts been debunked before?

 

-In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33

 

-Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144).

-Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blo]od Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).

[JLHPROF]

- Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money,

 

- "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma

- when Joe Smith and others were digging

 

First time I've ever heard of this (a rare occurrence) so I have no actual information on it.

But given these sources, I think it's pretty clear they weren't first hand, close friends, or anything other than rumours.  These were obviously not people who spent time with Joseph or probably even knew him personally.

 

But I'm sure someone here can debunk them.  Not one I've heard before, and not one that anti's generally use, so I doubt there's much to them.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Jeanne]

I am not sure where but I have read this in a couple of places. 

[ERayR]

I am not sure where but I have read this in a couple of places. 

 

IN the supermarket checkout stand from one of those tabloids they sell there.  Right along side the articles about the two headed snake.

[carbon dioxide]

First time I've ever heard of this (a rare occurrence) so I have no actual information on it.

But given these sources, I think it's pretty clear they weren't first hand, close friends, or anything other than rumours.  These were obviously not people who spent time with Joseph or probably even knew him personally.

 

But I'm sure someone here can debunk them.  Not one I've heard before, and not one that anti's generally use, so I doubt there's much to them.

I think you are basically over the target area.  ""A cousin of Smith's wife Emma"?  Now that sounds like a source that was personally involved with the translation process.  NOT

[Jeanne]

IN the supermarket checkout stand from one of those tabloids they sell there.  Right along side the articles about the two headed snake.

Not all all..they were books. I just can't remember.  I know you are jesting here but this is driving me crazy.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jeanne

[ERayR]

Not all all..they were books. I just can't remember.  I know you are jesting here but this is driving me crazy.

 

Oh then look in the weird fiction section.

[JLHPROF]

A quick google shows this rumour has been around a while.  It falls into the same category as those who accused Joseph of black magic.

His family's use of folk magic led to all kind of rumours about them.  Same kind of stuff Quinn wrote about in his Magic World View book.

 

Some have also speculated that Joseph was following an Iroquois ceremony (white dog sacrifice) that was regulary practiced in the Seneca area of New York where he lived.

 

Basically, these rumours are there for those who point and shout "peep stone" and "treasure digger", (and probably for those who don't realize animal sacrifice is a big part of Judeo-Christian, Native American, and other cultural history too).

 

ETA - a little more reading on "Hiel Lewis" (Emma's cousin) shows his claims of animal sacrifice were given in 1879, more than 50 years later.  Many other claims in the same document have already been proven false.  NOT a reliable source.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JLHPROF

[JLHPROF]

For those interested in the actual source of the rumours - a debate between Hiel Lewis and an Elder Caldwell in 1879.  Hardly a primary source.

 

 

Friend Cadwell, you say Messrs. Lewis would have us believe that [Joseph] Smith, [Josiah] Stowell, and others were such idiots as to offer in sacrifice a white dog, etc. Whether fools or idiots, or not, we would have you believe that they did just such absurd things. And it is no greater stretch of credulity than it is to believe what you and others do of Joseph Smith. The facts are that the sacrifice of white dogs, bloack sluts, black cats, and such like was an indispensable part or appendage of the art which Smith, the embryo prophet, was then practicing. He claimed to possess the supernatural power of second sight, or to see things at a distance, and deep under ground, and his frequent references to "the enchantment," proves that he was a conjurer, a sorcerer, which Webster defines an "an enchanter," and sorcery as witchcraft, or intercourse with the devil....So we have no reason to doubt the truth of the statement about the white dog, and the black slut, and that something of the kind took place each time the enchantment removed the treasure. It is hard to believe that men of common intelligence could believe that Smith could thus see, and believe in his conjuration; be so foolish as to spend thousands of dollars in such a way; but Smith translated his book of Mormon, mostly with this same peep stone and hat....and it is just as hard to believe in this inspired translation as to believe in the fact and efficacy of his dog sacrifices....Smith translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit. Christ says "by their fruits ye shall know them;" and by the application of Christ's rule, we know that Smith was a fasle [false] prophet, to be sure, not equal to Mahommed.....Let me also tell you that you are laboring under a delusion.

Source text: "Joseph and Hiel Lewis Statements, 1879," ,” in Early Mormon Documents, ed. Dan Vogel, (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 2002), 4: 308-9. Vogel lists the original source as "Hiel Lewis, "Review of Mormonism. Rejoinder to Elder Cadwell," Amboy Journal 24 (4 June 1879): 1.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Peppermint Patty]

Thanks for the quick responses!

[JLHPROF]

Thanks for the quick responses!

 

Google is an amazing thing.

Just reading about the Emily Austin quote now.  Seems equally unlikely.

She claims the dog sacrifice (only one) was performed at the Knight farm while Joseph worked there just prior to the organization of the Church.

After the Church was founded in April 1830, she was baptized into the Church in June of 1830  at age 17 (a strange response if she had witnessed that action).

She remained a member for 14 years (1844) all throughout Joseph's life, even after being widowed.

She rejoined the methodist Church, married 3 more times, and then nearly 40 years later published a tell all which has been used by anti's and Church historians alike for years.

 

Something not adding up here for anyone else?

 

 

I also think your sister -in-law has been frequenting the "other Mormon discussion board" since a thread on this topic popped up yesterday.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JLHPROF

[PeterPear]

Per JSPapers, Emily Coburn was the sister of Newel Knight's wife:

http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/history-circa-1841-fair-copy?p=74

A brief bio states she was baptized in the LDS Church but later joined the Methodist Church.

So her recollections of "Life Among the Mormons" may not be the kindest.

http://josephsmithpapers.org/person/emily-m-coburn-austin

This family history site notes her children from her first husband, Clark Slade:

http://www.ourfamilyhistories.org/getperson.php?personID=I171252&tree=00

Edited November 27, 2015 by PeterPear

[why me]

Google is an amazing thing.

For the better and for the worse as we can see from peppermint paddie's sister in-law. Just google joseph smith and we can all discover why.

[PeterPear]

-

Edited November 27, 2015 by PeterPear

[Russell C McGregor]

My sister-in-law just emailed me three different second hand accounts of dog sacrifice and Joseph Smith.  I've never heard anything like this before and it sure feels like some made up anti-Mormon accusations to me.

 

Can someone with more light and knowledge help me out on this?  Is this real or bogus? Have these accounts been debunked before?

 

-In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33

 

-Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144).

-Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blo]od Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).

 

FWIW, Joseph and Hiel Lewis were the inventors of the notorious "Bleeding Spanish Ghost" story, which they attempted to fob off on the world as Joseph Smith's own account of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. There are much earlier sacrifice stories, coming from Joseph's neighbours, but none of them mention sacrificing a dog. They say that a sheep was the victim, and that it was really just a ploy to get their hands on some mutton.

[Kenngo1969]

FWIW, Joseph and Hiel Lewis were the inventors of the notorious "Bleeding Spanish Ghost" story, which they attempted to fob off on the world as Joseph Smith's own account of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. There are much earlier sacrifice stories, coming from Joseph's neighbours, but none of them mention sacrificing a dog. They say that a sheep was the victim, and that it was really just a ploy to get their hands on some mutton.

I love mutton!

[ERayR]

I love mutton!

 

Can't stand it myself but we can still be friends.

[Brant Gardner]

These stories come from sets of affadavits that are pretty late (save for the one from the judge--that probably indicates that the stories had started earlier). .It is difficult to know how they apply to Joseph. The lamb sacrifice is quite probable in magic circles, and the black dog is not far behind in symbolism from the more magical side of money digging. I think that the stories tell us with some degree of certainty that those elements had been used in money digging circles.

 

The historical problem is that they become attached to Joseph only through people trying to color him in a bad light. One possibility is that some of the more lurid stories surrounding money digging were well know (even if they had never happened to anyone that anyone actually knew), and since Joseph was associated with money digging, they were applied to him. The process of transferring stories is well known in folklore.

 

In the end, I think the stories tell us a lot about what people came to think about money digging, and that they were familiar enough to know those stories. I don't think they actually tell us anything about historical events. The reminiscences are late and second hand--and coming mostly from people who could have been involved in money digging  but wanted to distance themselves from it and Joseph when the questions were asked for the affidavits.

[Robert F. Smith]

Since the Jupiter medallion which Joseph Smith supposedly had on his person at the time of his death, also had at the center of the reverse side a reference to Hebrew 'el'e[b], "god of the father (patron of ancestors & ghosts)" – misspelled in this case, and since Hebrew ʾob (1 Sam 28) = Ugaritic ʾeb (Hittite a-a-bi, ayabi, aybi, Hurrian api, Neo-Assyrian apu, and Sumerian AB.LÀL) originally meaning “ritual pit, mundus,” i.e., “a pit dug in the ground, which served as a means of access between infernal spirits of gods or deceased persons and the upper world,” and involved oracles, offerings, and blood libations,* it seems useful to recall here that the money-digging tradition associated with Joseph Smith Jr included precisely those elements.

 

1.  one pit featured the sacrifice of a dog named Tray -- John Walker, “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice: Joseph Smith and Magic,” unpublished April 1984 college history class paper, page 11, copy in Marquardt Papers, Univ. of Utah Special Collections, Accession 900, Box 154, Folder 30;

2.  in another dig a black cat was sacrificed – Stephen Greene, “Money Diggers,” Vermont Life, Autumn 1969, 51 -- copy in Marquardt Papers, Box 155, Folder 13;

3.   in another a lamb was sacrificed – Franklin B. Hough, A History of Jefferson County, New York (1854), 158 – copy in Marquardt Papers, Box 155, Folder 15. 

 

However, this was a very ancient practice: “in Greco-Roman necromancy, blood sacrifices were believed to reanimate the dead,”** and Oracles of the Dead were often delivered via “a ritual sleeping-and-dreaming now known as incubation,” as well as by “skull necromancy.”#  Of course, the exorcism of ghosts is also a specialty of necromancers.  In the Greco-Roman world these functions were performed by a psychagogue, meaning “soul-conductor (like Hermes), necromancer.”##  Was Joseph Smith therefore a necromancer, like the Lady at EnDor?  Some at least apparently considered him to be a medium.@

 

Joseph himself argued that the Priesthood was a medium by which one could discern spirits, providing the very type of phenomena with which we are concerned here in a variety of biblical and more recent instances: Moses and the Magicians of Egypt, the so-called Witch of Endor, Simon Magus, the French Prophets, the English Irvingites, etc.@@

 

*  According to Harry Hoffner in D. J. Wiseman, ed., Peoples of Old Testament Times (1973), 215-216, citing I Sam 28, and Hoffner in Journal of Biblical Literature, 86:385-401, and TWAT, I:141-145; S. Rummel, ed., Ras Shamra Parallels, III (1981), IV 3, sees the equation of ib and ‘ob as “phonetically problematic”; cf. G. Wilhelm, The Hurrians, 56, for Hurrian api, “pit; opening to the underworld in the magical sense.”

**    Ogden, “Lay That Ghost: Necromancy in Ancient Greece and Rome,” Archaeology Odyssey, 5/4  (July-Aug 2002), 46, caption to 5th century B.C. vase of Odysseus & Elpenor, the latter temporarily revivified by black sheep’s blood poured into an offering pit/ mundus (Odyssey 11:56).

#    Ogden, Archaeology Odyssey, 5/4:47,56.  Skull necromancy is included in stories of Orpheus and of Archonides, and recipes for it are included in The Great Magical Papyrus in Paris (4th cent. A.D. Greek magical book of spells written in Egypt); and it is a very ancient practice: Denise Schmandt-Besserat, “Stone Age Death Masks,” Archaeology Odyssey, 6/2 (Mar-Apr 2003), 18-27;  J. A. Scurlock, “Magical Means of Dealing with Ghosts in Ancient Mesopotamia,” doctoral dissertation (Univ. of Chicago, Oriental Institute, 1988).

##    Daniel Ogden, Archaeology Odyssey, 5/4:42-49,56, citing the stories of Pausanius & Cleonice (Thucydides 1:34; Plutarch Cimon 6), Zatchlas & Thelyphron (Apuleius Metamorphoses), Odysseus & Elpenor (Homer Odyssey), Canidia & Sagana (Horace Satires 1:8 ), Erichtho (Lucan Pharsalia 6), and Hamlet & his father (Shakespeare Hamlet).

@    E.g., the conclusion of Joel Tiffany based on his interview with Martin Harris in Tiffany’s Monthly, Aug 1859, cited by T. Givens, By the Hand of Mormon, 158.

@@    Joseph Smith, “Try the Spirits,” Times & Seasons, III/11 (April 1, 1842), 743-748 – pointed out and discussed by John Walker, “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice,” 20.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm a cat person. If he had sacrificed cats that'd send me into a rage.

[Kenngo1969]

I love mutton!

 

 

Can't stand it myself but we can still be friends.

I think one's opinon of it probably hinges on whether the person who cooks it knows what he's doing.  Whenever I've had it, the people cooking it have known what they're doing.

[Peppermint Patty]

I think one's opinon of it probably hinges on whether the person who cooks it knows what he's doing.  Whenever I've had it, the people cooking it have known what they're doing.

 

It certainly depends on how mutton is cooked. If cooked right, it can be one of the best tasting meats. If cooked poorly, it can taste gamey and be very tough. 

[sunstoned]

I'm a cat person. If he had sacrificed cats that'd send me into a rage.

Agreed! I am also a cat person.

[Thinking]

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

[The Nehor]

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

Depends on if it was one of those annoying dogs that barks all the time for no good reason.