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Dog Sacrifice And Joseph Smith


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Posted

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

I'm a huge donor to the humane society and a vegetarian and a lover of animals and yes it would definitely change my opinion on Joseph Smith for the dog sacrifice and for practicing dark magic.

Posted

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

 

Did I receive a spiritual affirmation that he was a prophet, an affirmation that the Book of Mormon is true?  Yes I did.  Next question.

Posted

I'm a huge donor to the humane society and a vegetarian and a lover of animals and yes it would definitely change my opinion on Joseph Smith for the dog sacrifice and for practicing dark magic.

 

See above.

Posted

I thought it all tasted like chicken.

 

Ouch...you're hurting my foodie sensibilities...

Posted

Ouch...you're hurting my foodie sensibilities...

 

Well I live out here and am acquainted with some amateur survivalists who eat rattlesnake and other living things that most of us don't.  They are always telling me something or another tastes like chicken.

Posted

Agreed! I am also a cat person.

 

Me too.... GG

Posted

Well I live out here and am acquainted with some amateur survivalists who eat rattlesnake and other living things that most of us don't.  They are always telling me something or another tastes like chicken.

Rattlesnake tastes like a cross between fish and chicken.  Quite good.  Cook it in the frying pan with flour.

Posted (edited)

My sister-in-law just emailed me three different second hand accounts of dog sacrifice and Joseph Smith.  I've never heard anything like this before and it sure feels like some made up anti-Mormon accusations to me.

 

Can someone with more light and knowledge help me out on this?  Is this real or bogus? Have these accounts been debunked before?

 

-In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33

 

-Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144).

-Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blo]od Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).

church scholar/author/apologist Samuel Brown agrees these likely occured but does not see this as a big issue when you consider the historical context.  Personally I think Joseph's treasure digging involved such things and I personally see it as bothersome.

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/02/samuel-brown-holy-dying/

Edited by DBMormon
Posted

Personally I think Joseph's treasure digging involved such things and I personally see it as bothersome.

 

 

Why?

Posted

Why?

When Jesus died on the cross, sacrificing animals was no longer needed. It's a slap in the face to continue it in the 1800's, and cult like. Wasn't Jesus' sacrifice enough? Did JS need to bring back the OT teachings, polygamy being on the list, also? When restoring a church to it's beginnings do we leave out that Jesus paid the debt? Or maybe JS restored a church not described in the Bible.
Posted (edited)

When Jesus died on the cross, sacrificing animals was no longer needed. It's a slap in the face to continue it in the 1800's, and cult like. Wasn't Jesus' sacrifice enough? Did JS need to bring back the OT teachings, polygamy being on the list, also? When restoring a church to it's beginnings do we leave out that Jesus paid the debt? Or maybe JS restored a church not described in the Bible.

 

1. Animal sacrifice did not end for ever.  Scripture is clear on that, as was Joseph Smith.

2. What part of "restoration of ALL THINGS" precludes OT practices, especially those practiced prior to the Law of Moses?

3. The one accusation happened before the Church was established before the plates were restored, before the priesthood was back on earth.

 

So again, IF it happened, and that's still debatable given the 3 sources, why does it matter?

Edited by JLHPROF
Posted

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

Or if conclusive evidence surfaced that Joseph used seer stones, or practiced polygyny, or claimed to have seen an angel, or claimed to have seen the Father and the Son together, etc.  Has to be something wrong with the guy if he did such things, right?

 

Of course, there is no evidence that Joseph actually sacrificed a dog while money-digging, nor that he was present on such an occasion, but the mere suggestion is enough to cause mortification in the hearts of anti-Mormons.

Posted

When Jesus died on the cross, sacrificing animals was no longer needed. It's a slap in the face to continue it in the 1800's, and cult like. Wasn't Jesus' sacrifice enough? Did JS need to bring back the OT teachings, polygamy being on the list, also? When restoring a church to it's beginnings do we leave out that Jesus paid the debt? Or maybe JS restored a church not described in the Bible.

 

Why is it wrong? I mean if we are trying to avoid anything that looks remotely pagan we should stop our weekly ritual of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a dead but living God.

Posted

1. Animal sacrifice did not end for ever. Scripture is clear on that, as was Joseph Smith.

2. What part of "restoration of ALL THINGS" precludes OT practices, especially those practiced prior to the Law of Moses?

3. The one accusation happened before the Church was established before the plates were restored, before the priesthood was back on earth.

So again, IF it happened, and that's still debatable given the 3 sources, why does it matter?

Well said.

As I understand it, the "restitution off all things" will include a sacrifice by the sons of Levi in the temple, presumably the one in Jerusalem, to fulfill all things, and will then be discontinued. I think JS or BY made a statement to that end. I'll see if I can find it.

Posted

Well I live out here and am acquainted with some amateur survivalists who eat rattlesnake and other living things that most of us don't.  They are always telling me something or another tastes like chicken.

 

My son says Eastern Diamondback tastes more like Tilapia.  

Posted

Would it change your opinion of Joseph Smith if conclusive evidence surfaced that he did sacrifice a dog?

 

I would have really struggled with finding this out when I was an active and believing member... I'm the kind of person that has a bumper sticker that says, "I work hard so my dogs can have a better life" and I recently reposted a FB post of a dog holding an empty food dish that said, "Re-Post This if you would skip a meal to ensure your dog ate." :P  I love my dogs more than I like most people--and that's not a reflection of low esteem for people, it's a reflection of the high esteem I hold for my furkids!!

 

I suppose I would have worked through it... but harming dogs and cats ranks right up there, just underneath harming kids, in my book!!!

Posted (edited)

I would have really struggled with finding this out when I was an active and believing member... I'm the kind of person that has a bumper sticker that says, "I work hard so my dogs can have a better life" and I recently reposted a FB post of a dog holding an empty food dish that said, "Re-Post This if you would skip a meal to ensure your dog ate." :P  I love my dogs more than I like most people--and that's not a reflection of low esteem for people, it's a reflection of the high esteem I hold for my furkids!!

 

I suppose I would have worked through it... but harming dogs and cats ranks right up there, just underneath harming kids, in my book!!!

So it bothers you that God sacrificed his Son?

 

If it is true that he did so could you entertain the notion that sometimes sacrifices must be made for a greater good?

 

Was sacrificing calves during Mosaic times as objectionable?   Why or why not?

 

Just trying to figure out your point here.

Edited by mfbukowski
Posted

Well I live out here and am acquainted with some amateur survivalists who eat rattlesnake and other living things that most of us don't.  They are always telling me something or another tastes like chicken.

Very stringy chicken.

 

Imagine string cheese made of chicken.  

Posted

I think one's opinon of it probably hinges on whether the person who cooks it knows what he's doing.  Whenever I've had it, the people cooking it have known what they're doing. :)

I like my cranberry sauce with some turkey on the side and my mint jelly with a little lamb to go with it.  ;)

Posted

Why is it wrong? I mean if we are trying to avoid anything that looks remotely pagan we should stop our weekly ritual of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a dead but living God.

 

I don't see any of the claims about Joseph sacrificing dogs as being credible. However, when you start defending the principle of dog sacrifice, it's time to admit that you're ready to embrace the gospel of the Deep Ones. 

Posted

Or if conclusive evidence surfaced that Joseph used seer stones, or practiced polygyny, or claimed to have seen an angel, or claimed to have seen the Father and the Son together, etc.  Has to be something wrong with the guy if he did such things, right?

 

Of course, there is no evidence that Joseph actually sacrificed a dog while money-digging, nor that he was present on such an occasion, but the mere suggestion is enough to cause mortification in the hearts of anti-Mormons.

And, it would seem, Bill Reel.

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