Why Three Identical Marvelous Visitations?

[Uncle Dale]

In 1650 (and again in 1652) an Amsterdam Jew of some

considerable reputation, published an account of a fellow

he knew, who professed to have discovered Israelites

hidden in the forests of the upper Rio Cauca, a little

northwest of Bogata, in Columbia.

 

These Israelite-natives identified themselves in three

consecutive revelations, separated by distinct intervals,

in which they voiced the exact same, wonderful message.

 

They were a remnant of the Tribe of Reuben, who would

soon come forth and defeat the wicked Gentiles (i. e. the

Spanish, Portuguese, and other European occupiers) and

establish their rule (of God's Kingdom) throughout the earth.

 

An interesting story -- no doubt. And something along the

lines of a divine revelation, to the fellow whom they chose

to broadcast it to the world.

 

But, why three identical visitations, with the message

repeated precisely the same, three times in a row?

 

Where did this mystic pattern of repetition originate?

Was it a well-known phenomenon before Sept., 1827?

 

I suppose, that if some door-to-door salesman (or even

a serif from on high) were to deliver the exact same pitch

to me, three times in sequence, I'd figure that either he,

or I, must be more than a little deranged.

 

???

 

UD

[Duncan]

Why did Jesus ask Peter the exact same basic question three times in John 21? Who knows! More to come as the plot thickens I suppose!

Edited April 2, 2015 by Duncan

[The Nehor]

When you expect someone to write it down later repetition helps.

[Avatar4321]

Law of witnesses

[The Nehor]

Law of witnesses

Pretty sure that does not apply if the three visitations are all to,the same person.

[Avatar4321]

I disagree.

[JLHPROF]

i agree with Avatar. Law of Witnesses.

Also, When God wants something taken seriously 3 warnings is the pattern - Wo, wo, wo unto you - the three wo's being most serious.

[JAHS]

The first visitation the person might think he was hallucinating and therefore doesn't take it seriously.

The second one gets the person's attention, but he is so overwhelmed by the reality of the experience he doesn't really pay attention to what is being said.

The third time he believes what is happening and is ready to listen and remember what he hears and sees.

[Uncle Dale]

The first visitation the person might think he was hallucinating and therefore doesn't take it seriously.

The second one gets the person's attention, but he is so overwhelmed by the reality of the experience he doesn't really pay attention to what is being said.

The third time he believes what is happening and is ready to listen and remember what he hears and sees.

I follow what you are saying, but still, the identical

series of visitations seems extremely odd to me.

Going back to my salesman at the door example,

It would make more sense to me, if the guy began

his second and third appearances with some

variation in his greeting, or at least an acknowledgement

that I was witnessing a planned repetition.

Such as -- "Hi, there -- I wanted to make sure

you understood what a good deal our reasonably

priced product is, so I'd like you to listen again.."

But, I get the impression that these revelatory

visitations are like Princess Leia's call for aid--

"Help me, Obi Wan Kanobi, you're my only hope."

A sort of mechanical recording.

Or -- a dream. Did the biblical Laban dream

the precisely same thing three times in a row?

Repeating dreams are at least a recognized

psychological oddity. Treasure hunter tales

typically have the seeker "seeing" the location

of buried riches multiple times in his dreams.

But here we are talking about actual visitations

and not hazy, visionary dreams of the night.

Still -- strange things happen in the night...

The boy Samuel was called three times during

the night -- followed by what is reported as an

actual, single epiphany -- was that the first known

instance of this strange threefold phenomenon?

UD

But Samuel only heard his name summoned thrice,

and not 3 rote recalls of a boilerplate form letter.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[cinepro]

Pretty sure that does not apply if the three visitations are all to,the same person.

 

Actually, the "witnesses rule" is closely related to the well known "Three Question Rule".  It's simply wonderful and wonderfully simple.

[Senator]

Actually, the "witnesses rule" is closely related to the well known "Three Question Rule".  It's simply wonderful and wonderfully simple.

 

Ha!

 

Classic.

[Ahab]

In 1650 (and again in 1652) an Amsterdam Jew of some

considerable reputation, published an account of a fellow

he knew, who professed to have discovered Israelites

hidden in the forests of the upper Rio Cauca, a little

northwest of Bogata, in Columbia.

These Israelite-natives identified themselves in three

consecutive revelations, separated by distinct intervals,

in which they voiced the exact same, wonderful message.

They were a remnant of the Tribe of Reuben, who would

soon come forth and defeat the wicked Gentiles (i. e. the

Spanish, Portuguese, and other European occupiers) and

establish their rule (of God's Kingdom) throughout the earth.

An interesting story -- no doubt. And something along the

lines of a divine revelation, to the fellow whom they chose

to broadcast it to the world.

But, why three identical visitations, with the message

repeated precisely the same, three times in a row?

Where did this mystic pattern of repetition originate?

Was it a well-known phenomenon before Sept., 1827?

I suppose, that if some door-to-door salesman (or even

a serif from on high) were to deliver the exact same pitch

to me, three times in sequence, I'd figure that either he,

or I, must be more than a little deranged.

???

UD

Haven't you learned yet? Everything is eternal. There was no origin, or at least no ultimate origin, for anything. All that has ever been said and all that has ever been done has been in repetition mode for eternity.

Even all you are saying has been said before.

And you'll probably continue to repeat the same things for eternity, too. Or if not you, someone else will.

We'll never hear the end of it. There is no end.

[The Nehor]

Haven't you learned yet? Everything is eternal. There was no origin, or at least no ultimate origin, for anything. All that has ever been said and all that has ever been done has been in repetition mode for eternity.

Even all you are saying has been said before.

And you'll probably continue to repeat the same things for eternity, too. Or if not you, someone else will.

We'll never hear the end of it. There is no end.

 

If I have to read your posts for eternity as the wheel spins then I want off this karmic wheel and I want off now.

[Ahab]

If I have to read your posts for eternity as the wheel spins then I want off this karmic wheel and I want off now.

If not from me you'll read the same thoughts from somebody else who shares the same thoughts.

Just learn to live in reality.

[The Nehor]

If not from me you'll read the same thoughts from somebody else who shares the same thoughts.

Just learn to live in reality.

Nah, oblivion calls and I run to embrace it.

[ksfisher]

Pretty sure that does not apply if the three visitations are all to,the same person.

 

Agreed.  One witness relating the same story three times, no matter how truthful, is still just one witness.

[Uncle Dale]

Nah, oblivion calls and I run to embrace it.

Well, as the lyrics of Jesus Christ Superstar predict --

To conquer death, you only have to die.

Or, as the Bard of Avon was wont to say --

Out, out brief candle...

UD

(Mine was a sputtering wick set in rancid yak butter...)

[Robert F. Smith]

In 1650 (and again in 1652) an Amsterdam Jew of some

considerable reputation, published an account of a fellow

he knew, who professed to have discovered Israelites

hidden in the forests of the upper Rio Cauca, a little

northwest of Bogata, in Columbia.

 

These Israelite-natives identified themselves in three

consecutive revelations, separated by distinct intervals,

in which they voiced the exact same, wonderful message.

 

They were a remnant of the Tribe of Reuben, who would

soon come forth and defeat the wicked Gentiles (i. e. the

Spanish, Portuguese, and other European occupiers) and

establish their rule (of God's Kingdom) throughout the earth.

 

An interesting story -- no doubt. And something along the

lines of a divine revelation, to the fellow whom they chose

to broadcast it to the world.

 

But, why three identical visitations, with the message

repeated precisely the same, three times in a row?

I don't know, Dale, but that ties in well with another story told by M. Hirsch Goldberg in his The Jewish Connection, 121-122, in which he described a Roman Catholic Priest with a Th.D. (Father Miguel Santa Maria Puerta), who lived in Colombia, and who had been examining the Chibcha Indians for some thirty years – based on which he concluded that their ancestors had been Israelites or Jews who had come to Colombia thousands of years ago.  He made several points:

1.  Hebraic elements in the Chibcha language, especially village names and plants, e.g., chivata =  Hebrew Shivat (Zion), Psalm 126.

2.  Pottery of Jewish origin (see To the Point International, volume 1, July 7, 1974).

3.  With a three word Hebrew inscription (comparable to those found on potsherds at Beersheba). [which he apparently wrote to Yigael Yadin about]

4.  Stones inscribed with Hebrew in southern Colombia, and elsewhere in the country.

Cf. Adolfo Constenla Umaña, “Comparative Chibchan Phonology,” doctoral dissertation (Univ. of Pennsylvania, Department of Linguistics, 1981).  Concludes that the original home for the Chibchan languages was Middle America.  http://repository.upenn.edu/dissertations/AAI8207943/  .  Such languages are found from Honduras to Colombia.

 

Where did this mystic pattern of repetition originate?

Was it a well-known phenomenon before Sept., 1827?

.............................................................

 

First off, it is essential that you learn to count.  And it's O.K. to use your fingers.  In Joseph Smith's case, it was in September 1823, at Autumnal Equinox, not four years later in 1827.  And the angel came to him and repeated everything 4 (four) times (JS-H 27-49).

 

Not that things repeated thrice are not nice or noteworthy.  Tripartite visions:

A. Gilgamesh Epic IV,i-iv, three dreams of Gilgamesh.

B.  “three consecutive dreams . . . from on high,” which came to Descartes on the night of Nov 10, 1619, as a kind of “Hermetic trance, of that sleep of the senses in which truth is revealed” – Descartes’ three visits from the Angel of Truth that night came the same year that the magus Giulio Cesare Vanini was burned at the stake in Toulouse, France.

C. the repeated angelic visits to Christopher Kotter -- Prophecies of Christopher Kotterus, et al., 2nd ed. (1664), 28-29,39-41,59.

[bcuzbcuz]

Law of witnesses

What???? Are you saying those visitations were sanctioned and from God? Aren't they just nonsense?

[Kenngo1969]

i agree with Avatar. Law of Witnesses.

Also, When God wants something taken seriously 3 warnings is the pattern - Wo, wo, wo unto you - the three wo's being most serious.

Wo, wo, wo?!   Whoa!  (Sorry; couldn't resist! )