100,000 Missionaries By 2019 - Elder Holland

[Scott Lloyd]

I never said anything about a "separate gospel"- the gospel we have is perfectly compatible with theistic humanism

 

This is what I was talking about:

.Wouldn't it be great if people started joining the church because they understood that we believe that human potential is endless and because they wanted to become all they could possibly become?

 

Remember we do worship a God, the Man of Holiness, who is indeed the same "species" we are, yet infinitely more perfected than we are.

 

Indeed that is precisely what separates our gospel from creedal christians.   That is the only sense in which we have a separate gospel.That is what I was talking about,

 

We don't know our own potential as a church to  appeal to theistic humanists.

I'm fine with all of that so long as it is not severed from the doctrine of the Atonement, faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by one having authority, the gift of the Holy Ghost, obeying all the commandments of God and enduring to the end.

[Scott Lloyd]

Old fashioned tracting door to door was always horribly inefficient, and has largely been replaced not only by member referrals and ward council assignments, but also by self-referral on the internet, and teaching on Skype.  Moreover, a lot of missionaries keep busy by showing up outside the many venues of "The Book of Mormon" musical and telling showgoers that "You've seen the show, now read the book."

All this is true, of course.

But even inefficient methods yield results if the work force is large.

[Avatar4321]

All this is true, of course.But even inefficient methods yield results if the work force is large.

A ward near mine had exceptional growth that began through tracting

[mfbukowski]

I'm fine with all of that so long as it is not severed from the doctrine of the Atonement, faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by one having authority, the gift of the Holy Ghost, obeying all the commandments of God and enduring to the end.

of course, but it would have to be seen as learning the way of obedience and submission to an authority one chooses, a path of self determination which includes cleansing rituals, basic changes to lifestyle, allowing one to correct ones mistakes and forgiveness.

Such a path requires discipline and order, meditation and prayer, and the reward is having the universe open itself before you.

Does that sound secular enough to sell and at least hit some of your requirements?

Edited March 6, 2015 by mfbukowski

[rongo]

Old fashioned tracting door to door was always horribly inefficient, and has largely been replaced not only by member referrals and ward council assignments, but also by self-referral on the internet, and teaching on Skype.  Moreover, a lot of missionaries keep busy by showing up outside the many venues of "The Book of Mormon" musical and telling showgoers that "You've seen the show, now read the book."

People always say this, but as Scott mentioned, even "inefficient" activities bear fruit if they are done when there aren't appointments or referrals. From what I can see, social media missionary work is actually a "waste of time" in terms of finding, teaching, and retaining people. We have shifted to this because this non-resilient, electronics-addicted generation was experiencing higher than historical incidence and rates of mental/emotional stress from missions, early returns, etc. Allowing electronics "work" is like a pacifier for this generation, and our stake was told by a seventy that our duty is to do all that we can to ensure that missionaries only have positive experiences and *no* negative ones (which is a ridiculous assertion, given the gospel principle of the value of affliction and adversity). I think the de-emphasis on tracting is less because of its "inefficiency," and more to shield missionaries from rejection and dejection. 

 

While tracting (knocking on doors and talking to people in public) is "inefficient" from the perspective of contacts-to-discussions, the fact is that there are people who are found that way who would not be found any other way (I home teach a family who was found through door-to-door a year ago, even though our mission is supposed to be non-tracting). There is accumulative value in people seeing missionaries out in the neighborhood talking to people (people always stare when I talk to them in front of my garage after an appointment with us). The new image people have is them *always* with their faces glued to their devices, not talking to people ---- or, as with our public library, all the missionaries in the city are dominating the computer lab all day long (or at Walmart).

 

Towards the end of my mission (north Germany, 1994-1996), I was asked to do a presentation for a zone conference. I was known as "door-to-door king," even for a tracting mission, and I did an anonymous survey of the entire mission in the month leading up to it. I asked missionaries 1) how many baptisms they had 2) how many lessons they taught in a typical week 3) favorite finding method 4) least-favorite finding method. While I suspected the results, they far surpassed my expectations. We played "companionship feud," and it was obvious that:

 

1) The overwhelming favorite finding method was referrals

2) The overwhelming least-favorite finding method was tracting

3) Overwhelmingly, the vast majority of our baptisms and discussions originated through tracting. Not even close.

 

Unbeknownst to me, the mission president had just met with Elder Holland, and Elder Holland had told him that our mission didn't do enough tracting. The mission president was emphatic about doing more of this to use our time effectively, and the results of the survey intensified this. Some would/will say that we should have been working with members, trying to get referrals. I think that most members do a pretty good job, actually. Even if members are constantly trying to prepare referrals for the missionaries, they will still have large chunks of time without appointments. During those times, asking strangers questions or engaging them in conversation is still more effective than Facebook/social media contacting, I think. And I think that this pilot program and the aftermath will confirm that the risks (time wasting, inappropriate behavior, extension of electronics addiction, etc.) far outweigh the benefits (potentially teaching the gospel around the world to people in downtime).

[rongo]

I think another big reason for the iPad/social media experiment is that there just isn't enough to do (or enough missions) with 100,00+ missionaries. It's an attempt to give them "something to do" when there is downtime, at least on paper. I think (obviously) that their time would be better spent trying to talk to strangers in person ---- even if they are often rejected, or often find no one home.

[cinepro]

Never mind.  I see another thread already discussing the iPad issue.

Edited March 6, 2015 by cinepro

[mfbukowski]

A ward near mine had exceptional growth that began through tracting

I have made a living essentially in sales all my life. I have sold investments, investment planning, furniture, paintings, and even done door to door in my youth.

If you are not beating the bushes every day, you are not in business.

I have tried it all, and unquestionably eyeball to eyeball works best. Qualified leads are better, but the bottom line is always personal meetings.

Get em in the office, get em on the door step, but real communication happens only eyeball to eyeball. Too much communication is non verbal to really get it any other way.

Edited March 6, 2015 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

I bet I could even get along with Rob Bowman over lunch. I really hit it off with Richard Abanes that way.

[rongo]

Get em in the office, get em on the door step, but real communication happens only eyeball to eyeball. Too much communication is non verbal to really get it any other way.

And that's the thing. Person-to-person communication as a skill is on the decline in general, and this is so in spades with our youth and missionaries. And shifting to an electronics-based missionary approach only exacerbates the problem . . .

[mfbukowski]

And that's the thing. Person-to-person communication as a skill is on the decline in general, and this is so in spades with our youth and missionaries. And shifting to an electronics-based missionary approach only exacerbates the problem . . .

Every problem is an opportunity.

Let's make them learn those skills, and they will excel in life forever.

[mfbukowski]

A flicker of an eyelash can establish trust, and make a sale, or help someone to learn the gospel.

Trust is they key and that does not happen on line, in fact online conversation destroys trust. Just read this board. We have members jumping all over each other not trusting that we are on the same side.

Edited March 6, 2015 by mfbukowski

[cinepro]

Here's a graph I made showing the historical numbers of missionaries called over the past 30 years. The number of missionaries reported for January 2015 is about 85000. The numbers of missionaries called between 2013 and 2015 increases about 1000 more per year. To make it to 100,000 by 2019 there would have to be about 3000 per year more called. 

 

 

I'm sorry, but what in the world could make Elder Holland think we'd hit 100,000 missionaries by December 2019?  Has anyone checked the birth-of-records back in 2000 - 2001 to see if there was a sudden surge in births that would indicate anything like that happening?

 

Because unless they make a drastic change to how they define "missionary", that just seems really...optimistic.

[stemelbow]

I'm sorry, but what in the world could make Elder Holland think we'd hit 100,000 missionaries by December 2019?  Has anyone checked the birth-of-records back in 2000 - 2001 to see if there was a sudden surge in births that would indicate anything like that happening?

 

Because unless they make a drastic change to how they define "missionary", that just seems really...optimistic.

Looking at the yearly graph we had a similar trajectory in the 80s and mid-90s (95-97 the very two years I was on a mission) to what would need to be had over the next four years to reach 100,000. Maybe we ask what caused steep trajectories in those years.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Maybe they will lower the female age to 18. Why is it 19?

[rongo]

I'm sorry, but what in the world could make Elder Holland think we'd hit 100,000 missionaries by December 2019?  Has anyone checked the birth-of-records back in 2000 - 2001 to see if there was a sudden surge in births that would indicate anything like that happening?

 

Because unless they make a drastic change to how they define "missionary", that just seems really...optimistic.

Well, the missionary program has become an extension of the youth program in an effort to stop the bleeding of inactivity with young adults. It is undeniable that the surge is due to youth going on missions who otherwise would not have gone (we used to have only 1/3 or so of young men go on missions, and almost no young women, comparatively. That has now changed drastically with both men and women). There is now a lot of unspoken peer pressure to go on missions, and I could see us easily reaching 100,000 missionaries in four years as this trend continues and an even greater percentage of youth go.

 

Again, I think this is because the missionary program has changed/is changing from a missionary program to an extension of the youth program. My mission where I live is piloting a program where the last six months of the mission, the missionaries are taken out of missionary "work" and engage in life skills training (dating, relationships, job skills, resumes, interviewing, marriage skills, study skills, etc.). As missions become more service and life skill-oriented, with a de-emphasis on finding and teaching, I think the bar will continue to drop for requirements for missionary service. Almost all youth will be expected to go, especially for the "life competency" training.

 

ETA: Going from 80,000 to 100,000 in four years isn't that big of a stretch, really --- if more and more youth who would not otherwise have gone go on missions. And, as mentioned above, it looks to me like like this is what the missionary program is being geared up for.

Edited March 6, 2015 by rongo

[cinepro]

Maybe they will lower the female age to 18. Why is it 19?

 

Having Elders and Sisters being the same age could be disastrous.  Or perfect, depending on the desired outcome.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I think the age should be 18 across the gender board for being able to serve.

[Avatar4321]

Maybe they will lower the female age to 18. Why is it 19?

The Lord said so

[mfbukowski]

What ever happened to people actually trying harder because they have set a high goal?

 

What the heck is wrong with us?

 

Remember "lengthening our stride"?   When did it become, "Nah, we probably can't do that.  It's too hard"  This is just plain sad!

[mfbukowski]

Having Elders and Sisters being the same age could be disastrous.  Or perfect, depending on the desired outcome.

OH no, I am sure it will be terrible.

 

All the missionaries will be excommunicated for fornication- the writing is on the wall, all because the sisters are a year younger, those little hussies!

[Ham Clam]

Isn't 18 for the boys have something to do with army service in some countries?

[Scott Lloyd]

Isn't 18 for the boys have something to do with army service in some countries?

I understand that helped bring on the change. When they tried it in those countries they found that 18-year-olds are capable of missionary service.

[Freedom]

And why do you presume the Lord cannot prepare people?

Well, the statistics tell us that he isn't. Or more likely, that there are just not that many people who are elect. Perhaps I am a bit pessimistic, but the baptisms and retention  in BC, Alberta and Washington state have gone down. absolute numbers of baptisms are up, but not as much as there are missionaries. Maybe we just need time to adjust. 

[rongo]

People forget (or don't consider) the eternal principle of agency. God can prepare people all He wants, but He will never override their agency. And, our missionary work goals can never override people's agency, no matter how much faith we have.