100,000 Missionaries By 2019 - Elder Holland

[ERMD]

11 minutes ago, ALarson said:

That's not true (from what I've experienced and known from a few members in our ward).  If the counseling is paid for through welfare funds, the person is to go to LDS social services for counseling.  Do you know of any who have been able to choose their own outside counselor and have the church pay for it?

The person also signs a form giving the counselor permission to share everything with the Bishop that is discussed or said by the person receiving the counseling during their sessions.

 

Having served as a bishop, I speak from experience.  Furthermore, the Church does not require the person to sign a form surrendering his right to confidentiality.  If that is an LDS Family Services policy, I am not aware of it, and it is not in the Handbook.  I did advise the individuals however, that I would get updates from and consult with their counselor(s)/psychiatrist(s).  I do not know if there was information that was not shared with me that the counselor may have been asked to keep confidential, although I doubt it.

Edited January 28, 2016 by ERMD

[rongo]

A bishop can certainly agree to pay a bill from a psychologist/counselor outside of the LDS family services network. Just like any other bill. There are no handbook restrictions on that, although it is understandable that most will want to refer people to the LDS family services network. And, that is usually what happens.

[ALarson]

15 minutes ago, ERMD said:

Furthermore, the Church does not require the person to sign a form surrendering his right to confidentiality. 

From their website (and read the 4th paragraph in the form below):

 

Quote:

We understand that the information you share in counseling can be very personal and that you may not want us to disclose this information to others without your authorization. By signing this Description of Services, you acknowledge receipt of the LDS Family Services Notice of Privacy Practices. This document describes your rights and our obligations regarding the use and disclosure of that information. All clients will be asked to sign an Authorization for Release of Confidential Information.

And:

Quote:

If you indicate that a bishop will be paying for any portion of your bill, an Authorization for Release of Confidential Information must be signed to allow contact with the bishop. If your bishop changes during the course of treatment, and you want the new bishop to continue payment for services, you must discuss this with the new bishop, notify LDS Family Services, and sign a new Authorization for Release of Confidential Information form.

Edited January 28, 2016 by ALarson
correction

[ALarson]

[ERMD]

3 minutes ago, ALarson said:

From their website:

 

Quote:

We understand that the information you share in counseling can be very personal and that you may not want us to disclose this information to others without your authorization. By signing this Description of Services, you acknowledge receipt of the LDS Family Services Notice of Privacy Practices. This document describes your rights and our obligations regarding the use and disclosure of that information. All clients will be asked to sign an Authorization for Release of Confidential Information.

And:

Quote:

If you indicate that a bishop will be paying for any portion of your bill, an Authorization for Release of Confidential Information must be signed to allow contact with the bishop. If your bishop changes during the course of treatment, and you want the new bishop to continue payment for services, you must discuss this with the new bishop, notify LDS Family Services, and sign a new Authorization for Release of Confidential Information form.

As I stated, if this is a policy of LDS Family Services, I am not aware of it, and it is not in the Handbook.

[Scott Lloyd]

26 minutes ago, ALarson said:

That's not true (from what I've experienced and known from a few members in our ward).  If the counseling is paid for through welfare funds, the person is to go to LDS social services for counseling.  Do you know of any who have been able to choose their own outside counselor and have the church pay for it?

The person also signs a form giving the counselor permission to share everything with the Bishop that is discussed or said by the person receiving the counseling during their sessions.

 

What ALarson says is consistent with my observation.  

[ERMD]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What ALarson says is consistent with my observation.  

I have authorized payment to non-LDS counselors and psychiatrists, and I know many other bishops who have as well.  We are not outliers here.  The Handbook gives no restrictions on this.  In most areas outside of Utah, the number of qualified social/psychological professionals is limited.

[salgare]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

All this tells me is that a PhD does not necessarily equate to trustworthiness. 

I was not speaking to trustworthiness, nor were you.

"I understand Dehlin presents himself as some sort of mental health counselor."

I was responding to your stated understanding that he was presenting himself as being inferior in some sort of way.

It's been said a fool chooses a doctor based on their bed side manner. 

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, salgare said:

I was not speaking to trustworthiness, nor were you.

"I understand Dehlin presents himself as some sort of mental health counselor."

I was responding to your stated understanding that he was presenting himself as being inferior in some sort of way.

It's been said a fool chooses a doctor based on their bed side manner. 

I wasn't disputing his academic credentials. I was citing him as an extreme example of one who, due to his past history, would or ought to be unthinkable as someone to whom a bishop would refer a member of his flock with the services to be paid for from the sacred fast offering funds. And yes, trustworthiness is very much an issue here. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Thinking]

7 hours ago, salgare said:

Rhetorical question: What is the difference between a Service missionary and an Employee?

In 2013 the Church laid off some COB employees. I'm quite sure that my wife's parents replaced some of those laid off employees.

Deseret News Article

[salgare]

11 minutes ago, ERMD said:

  In most areas outside of Utah, the number of qualified social/psychological professionals is limited.

Holy cow, that is scary.  It was just over a year ago, in SLC, Utah that I was given about 12 individuals from a major insurance companies hot line who were contracted to work with their members.  Out of this list, every one of the numbers hit a recording asking for information from me.  On each I explained the insurance, giving them account numbers etc for the insurance and noting on each that I was suicidal  and briefly about why (medical issues).  Only four of these even called me back, one of which was some woman doing some funky Herbal therapy, and only one of the remaining three could get me in sooner than three or four weeks.

It was my take that the availability of counselors in SLC is very limited.  And even with contracted, guaranteed payments for six or so sessions from an insurance companies hotline program, the very first thing these people want is a credit card.

The community/association of psychologists which I believe JD is putting together is hopefully a Godsend for people in need.  Especially those Church members who are suicidal with gender issues, of which, to my understanding, he is "some sort of " expertly trained with.   

[salgare]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I wasn't disputing his academic credentials. I was citing him as an extreme example of one who, due to his past history, would or ought to be unthinkable as someone to whom a bishop would refer a member of his flock with the services to be paid for from the sacred fast offering funds. And yes, trustworthiness is very much an issue here. 

Yes and I believe that is exactly why some here might suggest "the plan falls apart" as they would not be willing to fund the best possible option for some individuals

[salgare]

55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I wasn't disputing his academic credentials. I was citing him as an extreme example of one who, due to his past history, would or ought to be unthinkable as someone to whom a bishop would refer a member of his flock with the services to be paid for from the sacred fast offering funds. And yes, trustworthiness is very much an issue here. 

And another thing, with millions rolling in the tithing category (global monies), why does "the plan" push this back on the member as yet another requirement for these sacred local monies?  And these in small fractional ratios to tithing dollars.  At least for medical issues the incorporation Church should open up the wallet instead of leaving this on the shoulders of the member church.  

fwiw, I still pay fast offerings because I know it helps people in my stake.  The change to the donation ship sometime back, about reallocating my donations as they see fit often gives me pause to stop .. but I continue.

Edited January 28, 2016 by salgare

[canard78]

On 5 March 2015 at 9:04 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

"Don't doubt it won't occur" is a triple negative. I'm trying to calculate the meaning in my mind, but I never was very good at math.

Let's see: To doubt it won't occur would mean you think it will occur. But if you don't doubt it won't occur, that would mean you think it won't occur.

Or, to express it mathematically, a negative times a negative is a positive. But a negative times a negative times a negative is a negative.

It's like a toggle switch. Each negative reverses the operation of the negative before it.

 

Thus:

 

Let x represent "will occur."

 

"Won't occur" would be -x.

 

"Doubt it won't occur" would be -(-x).

 

And "don't doubt it won't occur would be expressed as -(-[-x]).

 

So:

 

-(-[-x]) = -x.

 

How did I do?

There are times Scott that, despite our differences, I absolutely love your posts. 

Combining grammar and mathematics is a work of art. 

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, canard78 said:

There are times Scott that, despite our differences, I absolutely love your posts. 

Combining grammar and mathematics is a work of art. 

I'm rather proud of that one, frankly. It took some cerebral energy. 

[ERMD]

On 1/28/2016 at 9:44 AM, salgare said:

Holy cow, that is scary.  It was just over a year ago, in SLC, Utah that I was given about 12 individuals from a major insurance companies hot line who were contracted to work with their members.  Out of this list, every one of the numbers hit a recording asking for information from me.  On each I explained the insurance, giving them account numbers etc for the insurance and noting on each that I was suicidal  and briefly about why (medical issues).  Only four of these even called me back, one of which was some woman doing some funky Herbal therapy, and only one of the remaining three could get me in sooner than three or four weeks.

It was my take that the availability of counselors in SLC is very limited.  And even with contracted, guaranteed payments for six or so sessions from an insurance companies hotline program, the very first thing these people want is a credit card.

The community/association of psychologists which I believe JD is putting together is hopefully a Godsend for people in need.  Especially those Church members who are suicidal with gender issues, of which, to my understanding, he is "some sort of " expertly trained with.   

Let me clarify--the number of qualified LDS social/psychological professionals is limited.

[salgare]

Sorry, funky quote stuff got me again

Edited January 29, 2016 by salgare

[Scott Lloyd]

On 1/28/2016 at 8:48 AM, salgare said:

Yes and I believe that is exactly why some here might suggest "the plan falls apart" as they would not be willing to fund the best possible option for some individuals

In my most desperate moments, I would not send someone I loved to Dehlin for therapy -- or send anyone else, for that matter.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[salgare]

29 minutes ago, ERMD said:

Let me clarify--the number of qualified LDS social/psychological professionals is limited.

Hmmm, I did not realize there were special courses qualifying one as an LDS counseling professional.  Is there a degree associated with this?  What do I look for to know I have one of these qualified individuals?

[salgare]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In my most desperate moments, I would not send someone I loved to Dehlin for therapy -- or anyone else, for that matter.

I realize that

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, salgare said:

I hope so Scott.  It is good to hear.

Just to clarify, you're responding to a post from ERMD here, not me.

[salgare]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Just to clarify, you're responding to a post from ERMD here, not me.

sorry about that, got my quote editor in  a weird state

[ERMD]

56 minutes ago, salgare said:

Hmmm, I did not realize there were special courses qualifying one as an LDS counseling professional.  Is there a degree associated with this?  What do I look for to know I have one of these qualified individuals?

Give me a break.

I will be more clear.

There are people who belong to this church, it is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  Some people call it the LDS Church, and sometimes its members are referred to as "Mormons" or "LDS".  There are a lot of these people in Utah, but some of them live in places other than Utah.  As people (LDS or anyone else) get older, they decide what they want to do for a living.  Some of them go into the field of social services, psychology, or counseling.  They typically receive education and training in this field in order to be licensed or to be considered qualified by their peers and the public in general.  If these people happen to be LDS, they may be referred to as "qualified LDS counseling professionals."  If such a person were a Baptist, he may be referred to as a "qualified Baptist counseling professional."

Outside of Utah, the number of qualified LDS counseling professionals is limited, because per capita, there are fewer LDS in some areas of the country than in Utah.

I hope this helps.

Edited January 29, 2016 by ERMD

[omni]

20 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm rather proud of that one, frankly. It took some cerebral energy. 

It reminds me of my all time favorite triple negative.  From the Family Ties theme song, "there ain't no nothing we can't love each other through".

Edited January 29, 2016 by omni

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In my most desperate moments, I would not send someone I loved to Dehlin for therapy -- or send anyone else, for that matter.

You send people for therapy?  That's rough.