100,000 Missionaries By 2019 - Elder Holland

[Scott Lloyd]

59 minutes ago, Gray said:

Missions are very stressful. Unfortunately they're set up to be that way, but I don't think they have to be that way. 

I would characterize them as highly structured in terms of scheduling, use of time, regulations and required conformity thereto, reporting requirements, etc. They are not unlike military service in that regard.

Does that equate to stress? I'm not convinced that it does. In my occupation, where I am frequently required to meet deadlines, I encounter as much or more stress than I ever did on my mission.

It might be argued that missions, with the required bedtimes and morning wake times, goal setting, productivity, frequent physical activity, etc., may be more conducive to both physical and mental health than a more free-wheeling lifestyle.

While on my mission, I often longed to have more control over structuring of personal time. But on the other hand, I don't think I have ever been healthier or more physically fit than when I was on my mission.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[ALarson]

I posted this on another thread, but thought it was relevant here to:

I was talking to a member of our Stake Presidency yesterday and he told me that 9 missionaries have come home early from their missions within the last couple of months (from our stake).  I asked if they were health related and he said they were all youth who went out at the younger age and then came home discouraged and depressed (for various reasons, I'm sure).  He said the Stake President is very concerned.  One thing that is good (from what I've seen) is that members are really dealing better now with any missionaries who come home early than many did in the past....that's a positive. 

I should add that I live in a large stake with a lot of missionaries serving (our ward alone has 12 missionaries serving), so I don't know what percentage those 9 represent.  I personally know of one other young man who is begging to come home, but his parents and our Bishop are trying to work with him to stay out (along with the mission president).  It does seem that more are coming home early, but maybe that's because there are more going out?  I'm not sure....

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by ALarson
spelling

[salgare]

1 hour ago, ERMD said:

Your accusations and assumptions are baseless.  My son was one of those 11th hour "Stripling warrior" missionaries. He was sent home early and excommunicated-- "in shame", some would say.

Thanks to his stake president, his parents, his heart, and his Savior, 4 years later he was rebaptized and 2 months ago had his blessings restored.  Dozens of other friends and family members provided undying support.

He was hardly out in the cold on his own.  Your arguments are invalid.

 

I hope he felt he had a choice in this.  If it was done again as expectations and for the acceptance and love of family, this young man has really been harmed.  This sort of things take years and typically end up in serious regrets, anger and pain.  Hopefully this was not the position you son felt he was in.  What I would suggest as an example of a "plan" would be that the Church provided 1 year of counseling, paid by the Church for all missionaries that come home in your son's situation.

[ERMD]

12 minutes ago, salgare said:

I hope he felt he had a choice in this.  If it was done again as expectations and for the acceptance and love of family, this young man has really been harmed.  This sort of things take years and typically end up in serious regrets, anger and pain.  Hopefully this was not the position you son felt he was in.  What I would suggest as an example of a "plan" would be that the Church provided 1 year of counseling, paid by the Church for all missionaries that come home in your son's situation.

No, he did not have a choice.  I physically drug him to each appointment, and when necessary, provided adequate sedation (I am a doctor, after all).

What are your qualifications to determine that he has been harmed and that (professional) counseling is necessary?  Do you deny that the Atonement can heal?

What are your qualifications and experience that enable you to state that "this sort of things take years and 'typically' end up in serious regrets, anger and pain?"

I strongly suspect that you have no data to back this up, but rather you are pulling ideas from your nether regions.

Edited January 25, 2016 by ERMD

[Scott Lloyd]

43 minutes ago, salgare said:

I hope he felt he had a choice in this.  If it was done again as expectations and for the acceptance and love of family, this young man has really been harmed.  This sort of things take years and typically end up in serious regrets, anger and pain.  Hopefully this was not the position you son felt he was in.  What I would suggest as an example of a "plan" would be that the Church provided 1 year of counseling, paid by the Church for all missionaries that come home in your son's situation.

What makes you think the Church does not provide professional counseling, paid for from the fast offerings made by faithful Church members, as determined to be necessary by the bishop working under divine inspiration and exercising his spiritual gifts? 

Have you ever heard of LDS  Social Services? It exists for just such situations. 

And why the mandatory one-year period? Maybe a longer or shorter amount of time is needed as determined in consultation with the young man, his parents, the bishop and the professional. The way the Church already does things strikes me as better than the one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter approach you seem to be so  blithely demanding.

I get the impression you are making accusations and demands without an informed perspective. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Russell C McGregor]

16 minutes ago, salgare said:

I hope he felt he had a choice in this.  If it was done again as expectations and for the acceptance and love of family, this young man has really been harmed.  This sort of things take years and typically end up in serious regrets, anger and pain.  Hopefully this was not the position you son felt he was in.  What I would suggest as an example of a "plan" would be that the Church provided 1 year of counseling, paid by the Church for all missionaries that come home in your son's situation.

And of course, if anyone doesn't want to go along with your "plan," it can only be because they are callously indifferent to the wellbeing of their own children, right?

 

[Scott Lloyd]

For the second time, I just got a rep point for a post in this thread written way last March.

Thread necromancy can be a way to boost one's rep point count, it appears.

 

[Russell C McGregor]

On ‎25‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 4:57 PM, salgare said:

I'm sorry that you appear to be so naive in your answers as to indicate that you do not believe there are any youth whom choose not to go on missions, or whom come home early from missions (major depressions being one of the main causes of late), or whom fall away within five years.

Unfortunately there are many a young man and woman who suffer from these issues on a daily bases.  Your immorality  shows through having no more concern for these issues than does the organization that you defend with such childish retorts here.

Very sad.

 

Bump for Salgare. You have an unanswered CFR before you.

CALL FOR REFERENCES  that "major depressions," whatever they may be, are "one of the main causes of late."

Thank you.

[salgare]

39 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

Bump for Salgare. You have an unanswered CFR before you.

CALL FOR REFERENCES  that "major depressions," whatever they may be, are "one of the main causes of late."

Thank you.

I retract the statement as being an opinion based on anecdotal evidence

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, salgare said:

I retract the statement as being an opinion based on anecdotal evidence

That is unacceptable.  I demand references!

 

On another note, I have a nephew who recently received his mission call, but then delayed his departure for "emotional reasons" and is undergoing counseling before he leaves.  So at least in his case, there was an awareness of a problem and an effort to deal with it before he went.

[salgare]

That is good to hear cinepro

[Scott Lloyd]

30 minutes ago, cinepro said:

That is unacceptable.  I demand references!

 

On another note, I have a nephew who recently received his mission call, but then delayed his departure for "emotional reasons" and is undergoing counseling before he leaves.  So at least in his case, there was an awareness of a problem and an effort to deal with it before he went.

I presume this was done in consultation with parents and priesthood leaders and perhaps  employing LDS Social Services, paid for, if necessary, from fast offering funds.

Indicating that the infrastructure, or "plan" that salg is calling for, is already in place.

[sjdawg]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I presume this was done in consultation with parents and priesthood leaders and perhaps  employing LDS Social Services, paid for, if necessary, from fast offering funds.

Indicating that the infrastructure, or "plan" that salg is calling for, is already in place.

I'm not convinced LDS Social services is always the healthiest place to go for counciling.  I think it can be beneficial but it is also done with a heavy slant towards Church approved results.  (this is my opinion based on personal experiences with LDS Social Services as well as anecdotal evidences from others)  

 

edited to add:  My experience with LDS Social Services was not related to missionary work and so may not be relevant to this topic

Edited January 27, 2016 by sjdawg

[Scott Lloyd]

14 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I'm not convinced LDS Social services is always the healthiest place to go for counciling.  I think it can be beneficial but it is also done with a heavy slant towards Church approved results.  (this is my opinion based on personal experiences with LDS Social Services as well as anecdotal evidences from others)  

 

edited to add:  My experience with LDS Social Services was not related to missionary work and so may not be relevant to this topic

I have to say I see no problem whatsoever with "a heavy slant towards Church-approved results," especially when the Church presumably is paying for the counseling from fast offering funds. LDS Social Services serves a clientele who are faithful and believing members of the Church, so presumably, they wouldn't have any objection to it either.

If you expect the Church to pay for counseling from, say, John Dehlin, I think you are being highly unrealistic.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[sjdawg]

10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I have to say I see no problem whatsoever with "a heavy slant towards Church-approved results," especially when the Church presumably is paying for the counseling from fast offering funds. LDS Social Services serves a clientele who are faithful and believing members of the Church, so presumably, they wouldn't have any objection to it either.

If you expect the Church to pay for counseling from, say, John Dehlin, I think you are being highly unrealistic.

 

I don't expect the church to pay for counseling at all but understand they do if there is a financial need.   In that instance I think it is perfectly acceptable for the Church to dictate their own Councillors are used.  I'm not sure that it is always the best situation for the patient but don't think the Church is doing anything incorrect.

Not sure why the dig at John Dehlin was thrown in there.  

[SmileyMcGee]

On January 25, 2016 at 1:58 PM, SeekerB said:

Elder Holland  said "projection", not prediction.  There is a difference. A projection comes from data analysis, not the Lord.

Gee thanks seeker. this past year has been full of so much uncertainty, but your answering of a stupid tongue in cheek question that I forgot about has brought resolution. 

[Thinking]

On 3/4/2015 at 3:29 PM, ALarson said:

Do they count the older couples who go out on service missions?  I think more are going out now that there is such a variety of assignments and locations available.  

 

On 3/4/2015 at 3:32 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

I don't believe they do. I think these are just people -- younger elders and sisters and senior couples -- that are called to proselyting missions.

The Missionary Department does not track Church service volunteers. They come under a separate department.

My wife's parents recently finished a mission in which their assignment was to work in one of the departments at the church office building. I asked them what was the difference between "service" missionaries and "full-time" missionaries.

• Service missionaries live at home and perform their duties closeby.
• Full-time missionaries do not live at home and may be assigned to proselyte or even work at the COB like my in-laws. They were considered full-time missionaries. They even spent a week at the MTC before reporting to the COB.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I don't expect the church to pay for counseling at all but understand they do if there is a financial need.   In that instance I think it is perfectly acceptable for the Church to dictate their own Councillors are used.  I'm not sure that it is always the best situation for the patient but don't think the Church is doing anything incorrect.

Not sure why the dig at John Dehlin was thrown in there.  

I understand Dehlin presents himself as some sort of mental health counselor. For purposes of illustration I was trying to think of an extreme example of counseling the Church might not be interested in paying for, and Dehlin came to mind. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, SmileyMcGee said:

Gee thanks seeker. this past year has been full of so much uncertainty, but your answering of a stupid tongue in cheek question that I forgot about has brought resolution. 

Lol! 

And so it goes with thread necromancy. 

[salgare]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I understand Dehlin presents himself as some sort of mental health counselor.

Ph.D. in Clinical and Counseling Psychology from Utah State University.

I know when I was suicidal and looking desperately for help, my insurance companies hot line gave me about 12 counselors who were contracted to put priorities on seeing their members.  There seemed to be as many degrees as counselors, none of which had Dr. in front of them.  I assume many of them with BS maybe Masters.

I wonder how many Ph.D. degree employees LDS Social Services has?

Bottom line that's a very foolish statement you have made  there.

eta:

The Church websites don't provide any lists of their counselors, but I did note a Top 25 list of them at linkdin.  As I expected I did not see any Ph.D.'s

https://www.linkedin.com/title/therapist-at-lds-family-services

Edited January 28, 2016 by salgare

[salgare]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

My wife's parents recently finished a mission in which their assignment was to work in one of the departments at the church office building. I asked them what was the difference between "service" missionaries and "full-time" missionaries.

• Service missionaries live at home and perform their duties closeby.
• Full-time missionaries do not live at home and may be assigned to proselyte or even work at the COB like my in-laws. They were considered full-time missionaries. They even spent a week at the MTC before reporting to the COB.

Rhetorical question: What is the difference between a Service missionary and an Employee?

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, salgare said:

Ph.D. in Clinical and Counseling Psychology from Utah State University.

I know when I was suicidal and looking desperately for help, my insurance companies hot line gave me about 12 counselors who were contracted to put priorities on seeing their members.  There seemed to be as many degrees as counselors, none of which had Dr. in front of them.  I assume many of them with BS maybe Masters.

I wonder how many Ph.D. degree employees LDS Social Services has?

Bottom line that's a very foolish statement you have made  there.

eta:

The Church websites don't provide any lists of their counselors, but I did note a Top 25 list of them at linkdin.  As I expected I did not see any Ph.D.'s

https://www.linkedin.com/title/therapist-at-lds-family-services

All this tells me is that a PhD does not necessarily equate to trustworthiness. 

[sjdawg]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I understand Dehlin presents himself as some sort of mental health counselor. For purposes of illustration I was trying to think of an extreme example of counseling the Church might not be interested in paying for, and Dehlin came to mind. 

Gotcha.  I have no doubt that Dehlin is not a church approved councillor.  lol

 

 

[ERMD]

10 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I don't expect the church to pay for counseling at all but understand they do if there is a financial need.   In that instance I think it is perfectly acceptable for the Church to dictate their own Councillors are used.  I'm not sure that it is always the best situation for the patient but don't think the Church is doing anything incorrect.

Not sure why the dig at John Dehlin was thrown in there.  

The Church does not "dictate" that LDS Social Services be used.  The decision to provide financial assistance for counseling is completely at the discretion of the bishop/branch president, and there are no strings attached or qualifiers given.  The primary advantage of LDS Social Services, in my opinion, is the fact that they speak the language and know the culture, giving them a frame of reference from which to work.  I have referred to both LDS and non-LDS counselors and psychiatrists, and have authorized assistance without regard for the religious leanings of the professional.

[ALarson]

25 minutes ago, ERMD said:

The decision to provide financial assistance for counseling is completely at the discretion of the bishop/branch president, and there are no strings attached or qualifiers given.  

That's not true (from what I've experienced and known from a few members in our ward).  If the counseling is paid for through welfare funds, the person is to go to LDS social services for counseling.  Do you know of any who have been able to choose their own outside counselor and have the church pay for it?

The person also signs a form giving the counselor permission to share everything with the Bishop that is discussed or said by the person receiving the counseling during their sessions.