Why Aren't Mormons Christian?

[Rivers]

I was in Elder's quorum today and we were discussing Pres. Packers recent confrence address.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/the-reason-for-our-hope?lang=eng

The teacher asked why other people don't think Mormons are Christian. People answered by saying things like;

"They don't realize we believe in Chirst."

"They don't know we believe in the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon."

"They aren't educated about us." (I found this one ironic)

Would any members of other Christian faiths like to give their own explanation for why we aren't Christian?

[JLHPROF]

It seems like the members of that quorum have no idea why we aren't considered Christian by other faiths.  I hope the teacher at least gave them the right answer during the course of the lesson.

[Brian 2.0]

I don't think it's any of those reasons, personally.  

 

They know we believe in Jesus, but we blaspheme by not believing in the Trinity.

 

They know we believe in the Bible but we blaspheme it by adding unto it with the Book of Mormon.

 

They know we believe in God but we blaspheme him by claiming we can become like him.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Brian 2.0

[Rivers]

Duplicate

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rivers

[Rivers]

It seems like the members of that quorum have no idea why we aren't considered Christian by other faiths. I hope the teacher at least gave them the right answer during the course of the lesson.

No. The teacher gave the same kind of answers. I tried to give better reasons but my response got drowned out by the other ones.

[JLHPROF]

No. The teacher gave the same kind of answers. I tried to give better reasons but my response got drowned out by the other ones.

 

That's a little sad.  We know why we aren't considered Christian.  How are we supposed to explain otherwise if we can't understand why?

[Rivers]

That's a little sad. We know why we aren't considered Christian. How are we supposed to explain otherwise if we can't understand why?

Good question. Understanding why would help us have better conversations with those of other faiths.

[Calm]

An orthodox priest wandered into the LDS bookstore in Calgary when I was working there.  He couldn't find a bible translation he was looking for and I explained to him we were a Mormon Bookstore.  He then got this strange look on his face and pointed to the pictures on the wall "that is Christ?", I said yes, and that we as Mormons believed in Christ.  He was very surprised.  He obviously for one didn't know we believed in Jesus as Christ.

 

I have meant a number of other individuals in Russia and from China who has apparently heard of LDS but heard we were not Christian because they were always shocked when I began to talk about our faith in the Son of God, etc.

 

I have also encountered some people in the past that were surprised we had the Bible in the bookstore or among my things alongside the BoM.  And there have been plenty visiting the board who know we read and study it and yet condemn for not really believing it.

 

The missionaries in Russia were often spat upon as magicians, the kind that raised dead spirits and invoked demons.

 

And they certainly weren't educated about us.  Studies showed in the past that most people who knew much about LDS learned from such things like the Godmakers.  Hopefully that has changed with the internet.

 

I am not saying these are the only reasons people don't consider us Christian…I would say most of these people are those who don't study it themselves (whether by choice or unable to do so for lack of opportunity), hear it in passing and make assumptions about it.  In most cases it didn't bother me, but it was rather sad coming from an Orthodox priest for if he was completely unaware that we believed in Christ than his congregation would like not be informed why we were different accurately either.

 

The only people who have gone into theological differences of understanding for the reason they don't consider Mormons Christians that I have encountered have been online on this message board.  Every person in real life that has talked to me about it had one of those very simplistic understanding.

 

I am not saying all people are like that, just that I wouldn't discount members repeating those as reasons because they are certainly the reasons given to me in my experiences over the past 5 decades.

Edited December 29, 2014 by calmoriah

[rodheadlee]

I give, what's the real reason?

[Lost in Ohio]

In a 2007 Ensign article Elder Holland gave two primary doctrinal reasons why others question whether or not we are "Christians".

 

1. Our view of the Godhead which doesn't follow the trinitarian belief.

2. Our belief in the principle of continuing revelation and an open canon of scripture.

 

I frequently listen to a Christian radio station while commuting and have observed that for those who are doctrinally opposed to the church the two issues Elder Holland lists are the ones most frequently cited for denying us status as "Christians".  The first is used for the "Mormons believe in a different Jesus" argument.  The second is used for the "Mormons don't believe in the bible" argument. Granted this is from the EV point of view.

 

There are a host of other issues like misunderstandings about the role of grace, works, faith, etc. in salvation, but the two Elder Holland lists are the ones used to get the most sensational impact.

[Rain]

Twenty-five years ago when I was on my mission in Texas and Louisiana I heard a lot about how we don't believe in Christ at all or that we believe in a "different god", but they couldn't explain what that meant. 

Over the years I have found as people learn more about our beliefs that the definition slowly changes to not believing in Christ because of our non trinitarian beliefs and other reasons mentioned above. People found their views of us were wrong so they had to change the definition of what it means to not believe in Christ. 

I think there are still a lot of people who think the first way, but the more the church has been able to show that is false through media, internet and members then people either have to change their definition or acknowledge we are Christian. 

Edited December 29, 2014 by Rain

[Tacenda]

 My friend's son in law was baptized into the LDS church a couple of years ago. And when they gathered at Christmas time this year he was wearing a cross. My friend's dad asked my friend, "doesn't, his son in law's name inserted, know that we don't wear crosses?" So not wearing or displaying crosses.

Also in the past, being Christian was not what we thought of ourselves. I'm talking in the early church. Being called Christian along with everyone else was nearly blasphemy, or am I getting my information wrong?

 

Here is a page addressing the very issue with comments http://www.mormon.org/faq/mormon-church

[teddyaware]

I was in Elder's quorum today and we were discussing Pres. Packers recent confrence address.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/the-reason-for-our-hope?lang=eng

The teacher asked why other people don't think Mormons are Christian. People answered by saying things like;

"They don't realize we believe in Chirst."

"They don't know we believe in the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon."

"They aren't educated about us." (I found this one ironic)

Would any members of other Christian faiths like to give their own explanation for why we aren't Christian?

 

If we Latter-day Saints wanted to be doctrinally rigid and uncharitable, we could just as easily say the non-LDS churches aren't Christian. But even though we Latter-day Saints believe these non-LDS Churches reject what we believe to be many of the major doctrines and components of the authentic Christian faith, we graciously apply the term 'Christian' to their religions, primarily because we believe that they (some more than others) have large portions of the truth and enjoy the presence of the enlightening and elevating light of Christ. Meanwhile, many non-LDS Christians condemn the Latter-day Saints as being non-Christian because, unlike us, they don't believe there is any degree of saving light and truth in our religion, and that anyone who believes what we believe will spend eternity suffering forever in hell.

 

So, in brief, the Latter-day Saints believe most of the the non-LDS Churches have much edifying truth and are forces for spiritual good in the world; while, conversely, many non-LDS Christians believe the LDS Church possesses nothing but spiritual darkness and for that reason we don't deserve to be called a Christian religion, even though the LDS Church has many of the outward trappings and much of the same Christian terminology of the non-LDS Churches. We Latter-day Saints believe the non-LDS churches play an important role in leading men back to the true God, while many non-LDS churches believe Mormonism is nothing but a religion of pure destructive darkness and evil. We believe they have much that is good, while in their minds they believe we are nothing but satanically-inspired bad. They cannot call the Latter-day Saint religion Christian because Christianity is supposed to save, not damn. There's the answer...

Edited December 29, 2014 by teddyaware

[JAHS]

People are right when they say the Mormon Church is not a "Christian" church in the traditional Nicene creed sense. It never wanted to be included among the traditional Christian faiths (and still doesn't) because of some important differences in basic doctrines.  However, there is no other category that the church can be placed in because of its christian beliefs and main focus on the worship of Jesus Christ. Therefore it is christian but not Christian.

[teddyaware]

People are right when they say the Mormon Church is not a "Christian" church in the traditional Nicene creed sense. It never wanted to be included among the traditional Christian faiths (and still doesn't) because of some important differences in basic doctrines.  However, there is no other category that the church can be placed in because of its christian beliefs and main focus on the worship of Jesus Christ. Therefore it is christian but not Christian.

 

Correct. The use of either a lower case 'c' or a capitalized 'C' makes all the difference. 

[Rob Osborn]

1. We believe The Father and the Son are two separate beings both of which have flesh and bones.

2. We believe that Lucifer (Satan) is our brother as is Jesus Christ.

3. We believe that salvation becomes available to us through works (repentance, faith, baptism, etc)

4. We believe that we can become gods ourselves.

5. We believe in the Book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ comparable with the New Testament.

Those 5 things are what separate us from mainstream Christianity and why they believe we are not true Christians.

As such they believe to be "Christian" you have to believe in-

1. The Father and Son are the same being without having any body parts (no flesh, no physical attributes)

2. Believe that Lucifer was a creation of God but that he is not a child of God nor is our brother.

3. Belief that salvation comes strictly through accepting Jesus words only without repentance, faith, baptism, etc.

4. Belief that we will always just be angels to God and that we are thus created with no further capacity to progress.

5. Belief that the New Testament is the only correct doctrine of Christ on the earth and that no new revelation has ever been penned as scripture.

[Rain]

 Also in the past, being Christian was not what we thought of ourselves. I'm talking in the early church. Being called Christian along with everyone else was nearly blasphemy, or am I getting my information wrong?

 

Here is a page addressing the very issue with comments http://www.mormon.org/faq/mormon-church

 

I don't know about that and I don't have a desire to read the comments etc today.  I do know that the Book of Mormon talks about the members of the church being Christian and the bible dictionary as well.

[Ahab]

Would any members of other Christian faiths like to give their own explanation for why we aren't Christian?

...for why they believe we aren't Christian, more like.

You should be careful about accepting others' explanations or descriptions of us. We are Christians, to at least some extent, even though others don't think so.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Is this thread going to be 117 pages too?

[The Nehor]

They are just still upset about their creeds being abominations and their professors all being corrupt. Hopefully one day they will get over it.

[pogi]

 Also in the past, being Christian was not what we thought of ourselves. I'm talking in the early church. Being called Christian along with everyone else was nearly blasphemy, or am I getting my information wrong?

 

Here is a page addressing the very issue with comments http://www.mormon.org/faq/mormon-church

 

I have never heard that before.  Your link is about Mormon's being called a cult, not about Mormon's being called Christians.  I didn't find anything in the comments, but there are more than I care to read.

[Gervin]

They are just still upset about their creeds being abominations and their professors all being corrupt. Hopefully one day they will get over it.

Most, if not all, Christians consider that LDS-revealed statement be a lie, and that the LDS-revealed Christ to be a liar.  So, it's hardly anything for a Christian to be upset about since it does a great job of setting a foundational benchmark for the LDS belief system against the Christian world.

[The Nehor]

Most, if not all, Christians consider that LDS-revealed statement be a lie, and that the LDS-revealed Christ to be a liar.

So at least there is symmetry.

[phaedrus ut]

As a member of the church I had always considered myself Christian and was often confused by the dismissal of our Christian claims by other churches.  It wasn't until my study of the greater Christian community that I began to understand their opinion.  In the most general sense Christian denominations may prefer their particular organization but also recognize each others as members of the larger "body of Christ" collectively and universally.

 

They are united as fellow believers, recognizing common creeds, sacraments, beliefs and the legitimacy of each others baptism so a Lutheran becoming a Anglican need not be rebaptized. Mormonism's exclusion from this common Christian community is one of the reasons why people say "Mormons aren't Christians" not because they believe Mormons don't follow Jesus but because they believe Mormons exclude themselves from the community of other Christians. 

 

When Mormons claim that they are the only one true "body of Christ" and the claims by other churches make them "fake" bodies of Christ and various flavors of evil you're not going to make many friends among your fellow Christians.

 

 

Phaedrus

[Ahab]

As a member of the church I had always considered myself Christian and was often confused by the dismissal of our Christian claims by other churches. It wasn't until my study of the greater Christian community that I began to understand their opinion. In the most general sense Christian denominations may prefer their particular organization but also recognize each others as members of the larger "body of Christ" collectively and universally.

They are united as fellow believers, recognizing common creeds, sacraments, beliefs and the legitimacy of each others baptism so a Lutheran becoming a Anglican need not be rebaptized. Mormonism's exclusion from this common Christian community is one of the reasons why people say "Mormons aren't Christians" not because they believe Mormons don't follow Jesus but because they believe Mormons exclude themselves from the community of other Christians.

When Mormons claim that they are the only one true "body of Christ" and the claims by other churches make them "fake" bodies of Christ and various flavors of evil you're not going to make many friends among your fellow Christians.

Phaedrus

That's when it's usually good to explain the difference between a Christian and the true church/body of Christ, explaining how a Christian may be outside of the church/body of Christ and still be a Christian.