MiserereNobis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Additional meanings for words or their parts do not negate previous meanings. Words are kinda special that way. Ok. So if I go to a CES symposium I should expect some good hard liquor to be served? or at least a nice craft microbrewed barley drink Protest all you want. I agree that 3 who are God are in unity, and therefore technically I am Trinitarian.If you mean something else when you say you are Trinitarian, that's not my problem. Well, you are correct that you are able to use words in whatever way you want, but it is quite silly for you to think that you can just redefine things willy-nilly and it is someone else's problem. Edited December 31, 2014 by MiserereNobis 1
Ahab Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Ok. So if I go to a CES symposium I should expect some good hard liquor to be served? or at least a nice craft microbrewed barley drink So you're aware of at least 2 valid definitions for what a symposium refers to. Maybe you'll figure out what kind of symposium it is if they don't have something to drink, or maybe not, but either way it will still be a symposium.Well, you are correct that you are able to use words in whatever way you want, but it is quite silly for you to think that you can just redefine things willy-nilly and it is someone else's problem.I'm not doing it willy-nilly. I'm using dictionary definitions.Now you know. Don't protest too much.
MiserereNobis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 So you're aware of at least 2 valid definitions for what a symposium refers to. Maybe you'll figure out what kind of symposium it is if they don't have something to drink, or maybe not, but either way it will still be a symposium. I don't think the term "symposium" has been used for a drinking party for probably 2000 years... I'm not doing it willy-nilly. I'm using dictionary definitions. I find it hard to believe that we're arguing this. You seem an apparently devout and knowledgeable Mormon. You must know that you do not believe in the Holy Trinity. Let me quote Jeffrey Holland for you:I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true. Elder Holland says that Trinitarian notions about God are not true. It follows that Mormons are not Trinitarians. Obviously I disagree that Trinitarian notions about God are not true (and I have some issues with the article I'm quoting from, but that's another issue). But the point is, Mormons are not Trinitarians, and any twisting or simplification of the word Trinitarian to the contrary changes the meaning of this technical theological term and makes it useless. Now you know. Don't protest too much. I'm certainly not doing what Queen Gertrude accused the player queen of doing 1
Ahab Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I don't think the term "symposium" has been used for a drinking party for probably 2000 years...About as long as your mistaken notion of the Trinity then.I find it hard to believe that we're arguing this. You seem an apparently devout and knowledgeable Mormon. You must know that you do not believe in the Holy Trinity. Let me quote Jeffrey Holland for you:He was talking about the mistaken notion of the Trinity, with all 3 being the same substance. The 3 are in unity, though, and that is a trinity. The mistaken notion is that they have one and the same substance.Elder Holland says that Trinitarian notions about God are not true. It follows that Mormons are not Trinitarians. Obviously I disagree that Trinitarian notions about God are not true (and I have some issues with the article I'm quoting from, but that's another issue). But the point is, Mormons are not Trinitarians, and any twisting or simplification of the word Trinitarian to the contrary changes the meaning of this technical theological term and makes it useless.I am not impressed with your reading comprehension skills.I'm certainly not doing what Queen Gertrude accused the player queen of doing Me thinks you are on the verge of protesting too much.
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I am not impressed with your reading comprehension skills. Can you specifically show me where my reading comprehension has gone awry?
Flyonthewall Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Well some on here believe they are Gods in embryo, if we're being honest. And Pres. Hinckley said we believe in a different Jesus, quite recently.We are gods in embryo because God is human - perfected and exalted, and we are His children. We are not perfected nor exalted at this time. We are not worshiped. We are not prayed to. We have no power within ourselves, but only what is given to us by the Father. We do not believe in a "different" person Jesus. We believe different things about Jesus. So yes, the concept of Jesus that mainstream Christianity puts out there is different than our concept but the person is the same.
Ahab Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Can you specifically show me where my reading comprehension has gone awry?Not realizing I am technically Trinitarian after I have explained several times how I am. Start there. I'll think of something else later.
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Not realizing I am technically Trinitarian after I have explained several times how I am. Start there. I'll think of something else later. I think I'll have to let it go here (we're not getting anywhere...), but I'll conclude by saying that I'm glad that you are a believer in the Most Holy Trinity 1
rodheadlee Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It's no big deal, it only matters what Christ thinks. I understand it matters to possible converts to know the truth but I could care less what other wanna be Christians think. 1
ERayR Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 We do not believe in a "different" person Jesus. We believe different things about Jesus. So yes, the concept of Jesus that mainstream Christianity puts out there is different than our concept but the person is the same. Which, as I remember, was exactly President Hinkley's point.
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It's no big deal, it only matters what Christ thinks. I understand it matters to possible converts to know the truth but I could care less what other wanna be Christians think. True, true, of course, though it makes me grin that you'd call Catholics "wanna be" Christians 1
ERayR Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I think I'll have to let it go here (we're not getting anywhere...), but I'll conclude by saying that I'm glad that you are a believer in the Most Holy Trinity Define Most High Trinity. 1
Freedom Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I think I'll have to let it go here (we're not getting anywhere...), but I'll conclude by saying that I'm glad that you are a believer in the Most Holy Trinity They way most protestants and catholics define the term, no we are not trinitarians. The term trinity suggests, as I understand it, that three are united in one. Mormons accept that they are united in purpose. Unless you can give an alternative definition based on the teachings of the bible, I am not sure why you would say our definition is not correct.
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 They way most protestants and catholics define the term, no we are not trinitarians. The term trinity suggests, as I understand it, that three are united in one. Mormons accept that they are united in purpose. Unless you can give an alternative definition based on the teachings of the bible, I am not sure why you would say our definition is not correct. Catholics don't rely on the Bible alone -- we also have the authoritative teachings of Ecumenical Councils and Popes. Like Mormons, we are not sola scriptura, but believe that God guides, directs, and inspires our leadership to teach the truth. My point is that the term "Trinity" and "Trinitarian" are technical theological terms with definitions that have been set for quite some time, and under those definitions Mormons are not Trinitarian. I'm curious -- why is there such a desire to be labelled Trinitarian when Mormonism openly denies (and often derides) the doctrine of the Trinity? 2
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Define Most High Trinity. Most Holy Trinity: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm (it's a start!) Edited January 1, 2015 by MiserereNobis
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Can you specifically show me where my reading comprehension has gone awry?Ahab has his own unique view about language and somehow thinks that everyone would be better if they used it even if it is one person using it his way and 1 billion another way….or so it seems to me from the times he gets on this kind of a definition kick.
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Which, as I remember, was exactly President Hinkley's point.And ours understanding was the biblical story told of Christ while others used the creeds to describe him. IIRC…I might be confusing some talks.
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 True, true, of course, though it makes me grin that you'd call Catholics "wanna be" Christians It is rather absurd, imo.
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I'm curious -- why is there such a desire to be labelled Trinitarian when Mormonism openly denies (and often derides) the doctrine of the Trinity?It comes across as greed to me…not only must we be able to claim all truth belongs to us, apparently all the labels to do too…we are the true Nouns, the true Verbs, the true Adjectives…all others bow in awe before our greatness... I see no reason to appropriate terms we don't need that others use differently when we already have better terms for the same thing, Godhead instead of Trinity for example. Edited January 1, 2015 by calmoriah
Yirgacheffe Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 No, we should be happily and proudly proclaiming that we are not Trinitarians, but followers of the true Christ.Yes. LDS are small t trinitarians not capitol T Trinitarians from the dictionaries I've looked read.
Yirgacheffe Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Additional meanings for words or their parts do not negate previous meanings. Words are kinda special that way.Protest all you want. I agree that 3 who are God are in unity, and therefore technically I am Trinitarian.If you mean something else when you say you are Trinitarian, that's not my problem.No you are a trinitarian, small t.
Yirgacheffe Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It comes across as greed to me…not only must we be able to claim all truth belongs to us, apparently all the labels to do too…we are the true Nouns, the true Verbs, the true Adjectives…all others bow in awe before our greatness... I see no reason to appropriate terms we don't need that others use differently when we already have better terms for the same thing, Godhead instead of Trinity for example.I'll go with greed though many will see it as deception.
Yirgacheffe Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It is rather absurd, imo.That's pretty much the attitude me and my neighbors got from missionaries, most weren't amused.
Freedom Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Catholics don't rely on the Bible alone -- we also have the authoritative teachings of Ecumenical Councils and Popes. Like Mormons, we are not sola scriptura, but believe that God guides, directs, and inspires our leadership to teach the truth. My point is that the term "Trinity" and "Trinitarian" are technical theological terms with definitions that have been set for quite some time, and under those definitions Mormons are not Trinitarian. I'm curious -- why is there such a desire to be labelled Trinitarian when Mormonism openly denies (and often derides) the doctrine of the Trinity?I am not seeking to be labelled one. Your religion has come up with a definition of the term, but you no more own the word then we own the word temple. It is a word that means the union of three persons in one Godhead or as some define it, the three personalities of one divine being. Catholics accept more than the bible, but clearly protestants do not and they therefore do not rely on the teachings of councils and popes so their definition is derived from these documents but are justified through the bible. you have one source to define the word, protestants another, and mormons yet another. We believe they are one God and so do you. 1
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 No you are a trinitarian, small t.Better to be precise about what we mean and say social trinitarians.
Recommended Posts