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Why Aren't Mormons Christian?

Rivers

By Rivers
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Flyonthewall Mentor

Flyonthewall

Posted
Posted

So much for polytheism:

Psalm 82 New King James Version (NKJV)

A Plea for Justice

A Psalm of Asaph.

1 God stands in the congregation of the mighty;

He judges among the gods.[a]

2 How long will you judge unjustly,

And show partiality to the wicked? Selah

3 Defend the poor and fatherless;

Do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy;

Free them from the hand of the wicked.

5 They do not know, nor do they understand;

They walk about in darkness;

All the foundations of the earth are unstable.

6 I said, “You are gods,

And all of you are children of the Most High.

7 But you shall die like men,

And fall like one of the princes.”

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;

For You shall inherit all nations.

Footnotes:

a. Psalm 82:1 Hebrew elohim, mighty ones; that is, the judges

b. Psalm 82:6 Hebrew elohim, mighty ones; that is, the judges

Jewish leaders: Blasphemy! you are a man and claim to be God!

Jesus: Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are judges? If he called them judges, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Judges?

Jewish leaders: what do men being judges have to do with you claiming to be god?

Jesus: I don't know...drat! Evangelicals took away my argument.

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Jim Stiles Proficient

Jim Stiles

Posted
Posted

Jewish leaders: Blasphemy! you are a man and claim to be God!

Jesus: Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are judges? If he called them judges, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of Judges?

Jewish leaders: what do men being judges have to do with you claiming to be god?

Jesus: I don't know...drat! Evangelicals took away my argument.

Nothing in Psalm 82 or John 10 suggests that a human being can become a God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God from the very beginning and did not earn his position of the second person in the Trinity.

Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

LittleNipper Experienced

LittleNipper

Posted
Posted

The Bible on a few occasions uses the term "gods" in reference to moral humans when it speaks of those in power or having power supplied by GOD. A prophet who speaks on behalf of GOD (such as Moses) would be GOD's ambassador/messenger/emissary. They are not GOD. Christ is the ONLY "begotten" Son of GOD and "begotten" is used to denote Christ's absolute bond/mirror of GOD in human form. GOD became man and took on a human identity so that HE could not only save but sympathize with man's trials and tribulations. 

Flyonthewall Mentor

Flyonthewall

Posted
Posted

The Bible on a few occasions uses the term "gods" in reference to moral humans when it speaks of those in power or having power supplied by GOD. A prophet who speaks on behalf of GOD (such as Moses) would be GOD's ambassador/messenger/emissary. They are not GOD. Christ is the ONLY "begotten" Son of GOD and "begotten" is used to denote Christ's absolute bond/mirror of GOD in human form. GOD became man and took on a human identity so that HE could not only save but sympathize with man's trials and tribulations.

Could He not sympathize with man's trials and tribulations before?
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Flyonthewall Mentor

Flyonthewall

Posted
Posted

Nothing in Psalm 82 or John 10 suggests that a human being can become a God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God from the very beginning and did not earn his position of the second person in the Trinity.

Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Reminder, we are in the form of God too - made in His express image.

Exodus

1 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Scripture say God made Moses a god.

John 10

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Those unto whom the word of God came are called gods, by God.

Has the word of God come to you?

bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted

Not one ante-Nicene church father believed the Father is a glorified, exalted man with a body of flesh and bones.

 

But they believed that's what Jesus was/is, right?

 

Unless they denied the resurrection i suppose.

JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted

Nothing in Psalm 82 or John 10 suggests that a human being can become a God. Paul wrote that Jesus was God from the very beginning and did not earn his position of the second person in the Trinity.

Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

And who else is also in the form of God?  Genesis 1:26

So why should WE think it robbery?

LittleNipper Experienced

LittleNipper

Posted
Posted

I do not believe that to be the case. I believe GOD knew what sin did and what GOD would need to do to overcome and save those He foreknew would accept His ONLY redemption process.  But I do NOT believe that Christ sweated blood in the garden of Gethsemane because he experienced such before. I also feel that Christ NOW has an eternal body that is of a type those who are saved will one day receive.

Jim Stiles Proficient

Jim Stiles

Posted
Posted

And who else is also in the form of God?  Genesis 1:26

So why should WE think it robbery?

The creator-creation dichotomy. We are creatures; we have been created. He is the creator. We can never be the creator because we have been created.

1
Calm Grand Master

Calm

Posted
Posted (edited)

And how does that address the scripture that implies if God wishes there to be other creators, it is possible for him to do so since all things are possible with God?

Edited by calmoriah
thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

Not one ante-Nicene church father believed the Father is a glorified, exalted man with a body of flesh and bones.

 

Because Pre-Nicene believers lost the vote and were threatened with excommunication and death if they objected.

Jim Stiles Proficient

Jim Stiles

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sounds like you need to take a course in Non-euclidean geometry.

A triangle has, by definition, three sides, even in a geometry that does not use the Parallel Postulate.

Edited by Jim Stiles
HOLY CATHOLIC Collaborator

HOLY CATHOLIC

Posted
Posted
 The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)
 
Mormons also follow a different Jesus than Book of Mormon 
 
 
 

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

 

 

3 Nephi 19:

 18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

 

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

 

An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

 

Translated by Joseph Smith, Jun.

 

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

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bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted

Yes, they believed that Jesus was resurrected.

So they believed that Jesus was a glorified exalted man with flesh and bones, but did not believe that God the Father was those things.

That's interesting.

1
pogi Grand Master

pogi

Posted
Posted

Mormons also follow a different Jesus than Book of Mormon 

 

Seriously!?

 

You are going to presume to interpret the Book of Mormon for us? 

2
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

So they believed that Jesus was a glorified exalted man with flesh and bones, but did not believe that God the Father was those things.

That's interesting.

 

That's right, they did not believe that God the Father is a glorified, exalted man with flesh and bones.  To a man the ante-Nicene fathers believed that only the Son was incarnate, became man, died, and was resurrected.  They believed that the Father is immaterial and uncreated.  They also gathered in churches that contained an altar, worshipped liturgically in the Catholic manner, and their worship was centered on the Eucharist. I agree, it is interesting.

Edited by Spammer
2
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Because Pre-Nicene believers lost the vote and were threatened with excommunication and death if they objected.

Actually, pre-Nicene believers won the vote. As Jim Stiles said, pre-Nicene believers were persecuted and hunted by the Roman Empire. Many of the pre-Nicene church fathers, who became Nicene church fathers through their attendance at the Council, participated in that vote and bore the scars and disfigurements caused by their tortures at the hands of Roman authorities. Their faith, the same faith of the apostolic fathers of the Church (e.g., two of these apostolic Catholic fathers, Ignatius and Polycarp, were appointed to their bishoprics by the Apostle John himself and both were executed by the Roman state), was illegal until 313, twelve years before the 325 a.d. Council of Nicea. Pre-Nicene Christians were writing about the incarnate Son, the immaterial, uncreated Father, and liturgical worship at the altar centered on the Eucharist for more than two centuries before the vote you refer to took place. The majority of bishops who voted at the Council and won the day believed the same thing as the pre-Nicene church fathers who preceded them. Their writings are the same ones that are referenced by Catholics, Protestants, and Mormons alike in their studies of early church history (e.g., Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Quadratus of Athens, Aristides, Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Athanasius, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen). None of those early church fathers believed what Mormons believe about the nature of the divine, including the nature of the Father.

Edited by Spammer
1
Canadaigua Proficient

Canadaigua

Posted
Posted

Still awaiting a response to post 123...

Here is your post #123  (my comments in red)

 

You believe in many gods(Polytheism). Your scripture confirms that.

​No I do not believe in many gods. I believe that there is only one God (monotheism).   LDS believe in many gods which makes you polytheistic.

 

Is the concept of different people believing different things about the same person beyond your ability to comprehend?

If we believe in a "different" Jesus then I wonder what you believe in because the Jesus I believe in was born of the Virgin Mary as put forth in the NT. He is the Savior of the world through His atoning sacrifice, and is the Son of God.

 

Your own prophet says you believe in a different Jesus.  Why should I take your word over President Hinckley

 

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7)

 

 

I sure feel bad for you since you do not believe in THAT Jesus.

I don't believe in the Mormon Jesus because he is a different Jesus.

 

You also must not believe in the Bible.

I do believe in the Bible.  Let me ask you if you believe in the Bible then why do your views on God and the gospel differ from what is taught in the Bible?

Since you do not believe in the bible

False assertion

END OF POST

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