Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 That's pretty much the attitude me and my neighbors got from missionaries, most weren't amused.If missionaries are telling others they are "wanna be Christians" and not the real thing, I am not amused either. 2
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Catholics accept more than the bible, but clearly protestants do not and they therefore do not rely on the teachings of councils and popes so their definition is derived from these documents but are justified through the bible. Not sure what you mean here...how can Protestants not rely on those teachings, creeds, etc. they use that were developed within the historical Catholic church, even if they claim to be sola scripture?
saemo Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Not sure what you mean here...how can Protestants not rely on those teachings, creeds, etc. they use that were developed within the historical Catholic church, even if they claim to be sola scripture?Protestants and Anglicans recognize either the first four or first seven ecumenical councils. Nontrinitarians, including LDS, Oneness Pentecostals and Jehovah Witness, reject all of the councils.
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Yes, I know which is why I am asking Freedom why he said what he did about not relying.....
saemo Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Yes, I know which is why I am asking Freedom why he said what he did about not relying.....He/she said sola scriptura justifies the council documents through the Bible, which is the Protestant view of themselves. Protestants view the RCC as reinterpreting the Bible through the RC Church.Of course, sola scriptura is itself an interpretation of the Bible. Edited January 1, 2015 by saemo
Calm Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Yes, i know, i can read.But they use the creeds, etc. which means they rely on the creeds etc., but he said they didn't. Just want to know his reasoning for seeing it as a nonreliance. Edited January 1, 2015 by calmoriah
Ahab Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I think I'll have to let it go here (we're not getting anywhere...), but I'll conclude by saying that I'm glad that you are a believer in the Most Holy Trinity Good. I'm glad you now at least accept that about me. I do believe in what I would also refer to as the Most Holy Trinity, even though we may and probably do have conflicting beliefs about how those 3 are in unity. Edited January 1, 2015 by Ahab
Freedom Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 protestants, as I understand it, find support for their doctrines from the creeds but do not consider them a source of doctrine. That is, their doctrine of the trinity is justified through the bible, not through the creeds. I have never seen a protestant apologist quote from the creeds to support their teachings. So, in defining the term 'trinity', protestants go to the bible not to the creeds. Catholics go to the creeds and consider the definition from the creeds as the only official definition that anyone can use. An example for mormonism would be quoting a church authority to clarify a doctrine, but not using that quote as an official canonized reference. We accept that God the Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one God. Since no word has an official meaning, it is reasonable to say that we accept the notion of a trinity but our definition is different from protestants and Catholics in that we see them as being on in purpose and not one in person. Of course, the Catholics accept that the Trinity, as defined by protestants and Catholics, cannot be found in the bible which puts protestants at a bit of a disadvantage in finding justification for the doctrine.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Tell me, what other gods do we believe in? Name them. I know of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.Go on. Name one.The gods that LDS believe in are different than the God that Christians believe in, even your own leaders have said so.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Good, I would hate to believe in what you believe in. Yours is false.At least you can admit that Christians and Mormons do not believe in the same God (or gods in your case). Which makes me wonder why Mormons always ask why Christians do not believe Mormons are Christian.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Would any members of other Christian faiths like to give their own explanation for why we aren't Christian?The same reason that Mormons don't consider Evangelical Christians as Mormons. We believe in a different God and a different gospel.
Calm Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 protestants, as I understand it, find support for their doctrines from the creeds but do not consider them a source of doctrine. That is, their doctrine of the trinity is justified through the bible, not through the creeds. I have never seen a protestant apologist quote from the creeds to support their teachings. So, in defining the term 'trinity', protestants go to the bible not to the creeds. Catholics go to the creeds and consider the definition from the creeds as the only official definition that anyone can use. An example for mormonism would be quoting a church authority to clarify a doctrine, but not using that quote as an official canonized reference. We accept that God the Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one God. Since no word has an official meaning, it is reasonable to say that we accept the notion of a trinity but our definition is different from protestants and Catholics in that we see them as being on in purpose and not one in person. Of course, the Catholics accept that the Trinity, as defined by protestants and Catholics, cannot be found in the bible which puts protestants at a bit of a disadvantage in finding justification for the doctrine.Thanks for clarifying, I have seen a very few EVs go to creeds and use them as if a source doctrine but not the more educated ones. It does not makes sense for them to do so based on their premises it would seem.
Freedom Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 The gods that LDS believe in are different than the God that Christians believe in, even your own leaders have said so.We believe in the same God, we just have a greater understanding of His nature thanks to modern revelation.
Flyonthewall Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 The gods that LDS believe in are different than the God that Christians believe in, even your own leaders have said so.How many President Obama's are there? Democrats describe him one way. Republicans another. Does that mean there are different President Obamas? Are there two different people they are referring to? Is it too complex of a concept for you to grasp? Again, I will ask you, name one god we believe in aside from God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
Yirgacheffe Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks for clarifying, I have seen a very few EVs go to creeds and use them as if a source doctrine but not the more educated ones. It does not makes sense for them to do so based on their premises it would seem.I though creeds were an explanation of doctrine, not a source.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How many President Obama's are there?One. How many Gods are there? Christianity - OneMormonism - Many
Calm Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I though creeds were an explanation of doctrine, not a source.One would hope. That is why I think it is only the few uneducated ones that don't realize appealing to creeds as some definitive proof for whatever doesn't really work for sola scriptura positions.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 We believe in the same God. . .Which LDS god are you referring to with your statement above?
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Again, I will ask you, name one god we believe in aside from God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.You believe in many more gods than you listed above. D and C 121:32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.
Flyonthewall Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) You believe in many more gods than you listed above. D and C 121:32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.If you believe the gospel of John, you believe in those same gods. John 10:34 New Testament Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Of course He was referring to Psalms Psalms 82:6 Old Testament I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. If you believe Psalms and John are scripture, then you believe in those very same gods. Now, you are no longer Christian. Ta Daaaaa! Beams. Motes. Pot. Kettle. Edited January 2, 2015 by Flyonthewall
Yirgacheffe Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 One would hope. That is why I think it is only the few uneducated ones that don't realize appealing to creeds as some definitive proof for whatever doesn't really work for sola scriptura positions.Are they appealing to the creeds as proof or deferring to them to articulate belief? Just because someone says this is what I believe when referring to a creed doesn't mean they see it as proof they may just see it as a better explanation than they can come up with on their own.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 If you believe the gospel of John, you believe in those same gods.John 10:34New TestamentJesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?Of course He was referring to PsalmsPsalms 82:6Old TestamentI have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.If you believe Psalms and John are scripture, then you believe in those very same gods.Now, you are no longer Christian. Ta Daaaaa!Beams. Motes.Pot. Kettle.You believe in many gods (polytheism). I believe that there is only one God (monotheism). Not so sure why you are having a hard time admitting that we believe in a different God, especially since your own leaders have affirmed this.
Flyonthewall Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 You believe in many gods (polytheism). I believe that there is only one God (monotheism). Not so sure why you are having a hard time admitting that we believe in a different God, especially since your own leaders have affirmed this.You believe in many gods(Polytheism). Your scripture confirms that. Is the concept of different people believing different things about the same person beyond your ability to comprehend? If we believe in a "different" Jesus then I wonder what you believe in because the Jesus I believe in was born of the Virgin Mary as put forth in the NT. He is the Savior of the world through His atoning sacrifice, and is the Son of God. I sure feel bad for you since you do not believe in THAT Jesus. You also must not believe in the Bible. Since you do not believe in the bible, and do not believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God, Savior of all Mankind that is taught about in the bible, just what religion are you? What god do you follow? You have admitted you do not believe in the same god we do, so who is it? Vishnu? Buddha? Kali? Zeus? Apollo? A tree? A rock? An Idol? C'mon, don't be shy, you can tell us.... (this will be interesting to hear)
rodheadlee Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) True, true, of course, though it makes me grin that you'd call Catholics "wanna be" Christians It's not a sectional thing it's person by person. No real Catholic Christian would deny my Christianity if we knew each other or the Spirit bore witness. So no I didn't call Catholics in general wannabes just the mean ones. Edited January 2, 2015 by rodheadlee 1
Jim Stiles Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread. Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
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