Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Since you believe in many gods--which god are you referring to in your sentence above?God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Ghost. By your own admission you do not believe in the God I do, what God to you refer to? By your own admission you do not believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost because they are who I believe in.
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. Do you believe that the above sentence doesn't mean what it actually says?Do you really want to play this game? I have already told you what those words mean. I can take one statement out of context and claim it means something that you will not agree with. If you want to know what those words mean, look at all the words of President Hinckley, not just one sound bite.
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Do you really want to play this game? I have already told you what those words mean.I can take one statement out of context and claim it means something that you will not agree with.If you want to know what those words mean, look at all the words of President Hinckley, not just one sound bite.President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. Perhaps I missed your post where you told me what the above sentence says. Which post number so I can go back and look at your explanation of this sentence?
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Canadaigua--Since you believe in many gods--which god are you referring to in your sentence above? Flyonthewall--God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Ghost.Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring?
Teancum Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring?Yes like the earliest Christians. Like Jesus who in many verse spoke of his father being separate from himself (his father was greater than he, why call him good because there is none good but God, and in praying to his father like In John 17 where he prays to his father that his followers would be one with him IN THE SAME WAY HE IS ONE WOTH HIS FATHER.......).Mornons beleive God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are one in all ways but essence or substance and that they divinely indwell one another. So there you have it, Stop spreading untruth and misinformation in your agenda driven misson to portray Mormons as something they are not. 2
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. Perhaps I missed your post where you told me what the above sentence says. Which post number so I can go back and look at your explanation of this sentence?Posts 81 and 114. Post 81 was directed to someone else but the answer you are asking about is there. I will ask you again, let's see if you can answer this question... Is it too complex a concept for you to grasp that different people can describe the SAME person differently? This issue has been address fully here: http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Gordon_B._Hinckley_states_that_Latter-day_Saints_don%27t_believe_in_the_%22traditional%22_Christ In case you will not follow the link: Question: Did Gordon B. Hinckley say that Latter-day Saints do not worship the biblical Jesus? It is clear that Latter-day Saints believe in the biblical Christ—the Christ that is described in the New Testament President Gordon B. Hinckley, responding to a question regarding whether Latter-day Saints believe in the “traditional Christ,” stated: No I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times. [1] President Hinckley is referring to the concept of Christ that has developed in the centuries since the Nicene Creed was formed President Hinckley is referring to the concept of Christ that has developed in the centuries since the Nicene Creed was formed—He is saying that we do not believe in non-Biblical creeds. This statement is quite correct: Latter-day Saints do not have some of the same beliefs about Christ that other Christian churches do. He is not saying that we do not believe in the Biblical Christ. In fact, the reason that Latter-day Saints do not accept these creeds is because they are non-Biblical. President Hinckley continued (with words usually omitted by critics): Am I Christian? Of course I am. I believe in Christ. I talk of Christ. I pray through Christ. I'm trying to follow Him and live His gospel in my life. Hinckley: "Believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the greatest figure of time and eternity" Consider the following words by President Hinckley: Believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the greatest figure of time and eternity. Believe that His matchless life reached back before the world was formed. Believe that He was the Creator of the earth on which we live. Believe that He was Jehovah of the Old Testament, that He was the Messiah of the New Testament, that He died and was resurrected, that He visited the western continents and taught the people here, that He ushered in this final gospel dispensation, and that He lives, the living Son of the living God, our Savior and our Redeemer. [2] In the statement above, there is no question that President Hinckley is professing belief in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament. Critics, however, ignore clear statements such as these, and instead look to justify their claims that Latter-day Saints are not Christian by mining the quotes of church leaders for phrases which seem to support their position. In order to strengthen their claim, critics of the Church sometimes even modify these quotes Consider the use of President Hinckley’s quote in the critical Search for the Truth DVD. The critics have actually added a phrase to the quote: No I don't believe in the traditional Christ. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the Fullness of Times. [3] President Hinckley understood how the critics would attempt to portray Latter-day Saints with regard to their belief in Christ: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. They spoke to him. He spoke with Them. He testified openly, unequivocally, and unabashedly of that great vision. It was a vision of the Almighty and of the Redeemer of the world, glorious beyond our understanding but certain and unequivocating in the knowledge which it brought. It is out of that knowledge, rooted deep in the soil of modern revelation, that we, in the words of Nephi, “talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that [we and] our children may know to what source [we] may look for a remission of [our] sins” (2 Nephi 25:26). [4] President Hinckley was quite clear in his position regarding Christ: Are we Christians? Of course we are Christians. We believe in Christ. We worship Christ. We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal life. [5]
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring? Oh I don't know that is really hard. When someone speaks of the president how do you know which president? The president of the US or the president of France or the president of some company? How about we try this Father or Jesus Christ or Holy Ghost? It really works quite well for me. 1
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring?Depends on the context of the conversation. They are one with each other so it doesn't really matter much. Now you tell me - Which of the 3 Gods I believe in don't you believe in? Oh, that's right. You have already stated you don't believe in any.
Anakin7 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Canadaigua Yes I know it is True. Different Bible versions are different. Which version do you use ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
JLHPROF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring? When we say God we refer to the Father, just as Christ did.
JLHPROF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 You know that is not true. The unique teachings of Mormonism are not found in the Bible. Oh yes they are. But not in completeness and not according to sectarian interpretation. But I continually find reference to ALL of Mormonism scattered throughout the Bible. You just reject the interpretations that point to the fact. 1
Ahab Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. So when you say God which one are you referring?To translate what we mean into your way of thinking about it would be to say that each of those persons is the God we are referring to. We say "Gods" as a less wordy way to say "persons who are God", knowing there is only one KIND of being that is God while there is more than one PERSON who is God.That should now be enough of an explanation for even you, so go on your way rejoicing.
bluebell Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 But according to Mormonism the God of the OT is Jesus. Right? And what about the following verse in John 20. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. According to Mormonism we believe that Christ represents God the Father in the OT and that though He is the one speaking and interacting with mankind, it is always in the name of God the Father and as if God the Father Himself were there. I see that you are really struggling to understand this so I'm going to quote Jeff Lindsay because he explains this in a way that you should be able to understand (whether or not you agree is irrelevant. The only hope at this point is that you can at least understand LDS doctrine sufficiently so that you can stop believing you know more about what we believe than you obviously do). "First, there is only one God because the Father is the supreme monarch of our universe. There is no other God to whom we could switch our allegiance, and there never will be such a being. He is "the Eternal God of all other gods" (D&C 121:32). Elder Boyd K. Packer writes:The Father is the one true God. This thing is certain: no one will ever ascend above Him; no one will ever replace Him. Nor will anything ever change the relationship that we, His literal offspring, have with Him. He is Elohim, the Father. He is God; of Him there is only one. We revere our Father and our God; we worship Him.[boyd K. Packer, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1991), 293, emphasis in original.]Second, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are so unified in mind, will, love, and covenant that they can collectively be called "one God" (see 2 Nephi 31:21; D&C 20:28). A powerful unity of spirit, the universal "light of Christ" that is the power of God pervading the universe (D&C 88:7-13), bonds them. Jesus Christ can even be identified by the title "Father" because "I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one - The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men" (D&C 93:3-4). Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained: "Monotheism is the doctrine or belief that there is but one God. If this is properly interpreted to mean that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - each of whom is a separate and distinct godly personage - are one God, meaning one Godhead, then true saints are monotheists."[bruce R. McConkie, "Monotheism," in Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), p. 511.] Third, even though an innumerable host of beings may be gods and though many more will become such, there is still only one God because all of them are unified in essentially the same way as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."These are three reasons why Mormons, despite our disbelief in the Trinity, are not polytheistic.
JLHPROF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 According to Mormonism we believe that Christ represents God the Father in the OT and that though He is the one speaking and interacting with mankind, it is always in the name of God the Father and as if God the Father Himself were there. Even that is debatable, being a newer doctrine of the Church not established until the 20th century. Personally I don't believe Christ to be Jehovah, but that is the current standard teaching (until the next one).
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Ghost. By your own admission you do not believe in the God I do, what God to you refer to? By your own admission you do not believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost because they are who I believe in. The LORD God is One. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Father is not the Spirit. The Son is not the Father. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. The Spirit is not the Son. The LORD God is One. Worship God. Worship the Father. Worship the Son. Worship the Spirit. Worship God.
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 We are taught by the Saviour that with God all things are possible. Ii light of the Lord's unqualified declaration, do you believe that God lacks the power and ability to endow saved men with his creative power. If your answer is yes, do you believe the Bible is inaccurate when it states that the sons of God will be joint heirs with Christ in ALL he has inherited from his Father? . God never promised to make human beings god. Satan did, however. Genesis 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) But according to Mormonism the God of the OT is Jesus. Right? And what about the following verse in John 20. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Why don't you sincerely try to understand Mormonism instead of trying to turn it into soundbites that glaringly display your ignorance. Edited January 4, 2015 by ERayR 1
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The LORD God is One.The Father is God.The Son is God.The Spirit is God.The Father is not the Son.The Father is not the Spirit.The Son is not the Father.The Son is not the Spirit.The Spirit is not the Father.The Spirit is not the Son.The LORD God is One.Worship God.Worship the Father.Worship the Son.Worship the Spirit.Worship God.Can you really understand what you wrote here? 1
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Can you really understand what you wrote here? Yes, all of the sentences were grammatically correct and logically coherent.
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The LORD God is One.Agreed. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Spirit is God.Agreed. Numerically that is 3 The Father is not the Son. The Father is not the Spirit. The Son is not the Father. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. The Spirit is not the Son.Agreed. Further emphasis on 3. The LORD God is One. Worship God. Worship the Father. Worship the Son. Worship the Spirit. Worship God.The 3 divine personages make the 1 Godhead. Nothing here to disagree with.
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Westminster Confession of Faith 2:3. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost:[o] the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;[p] the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.[q] o. Matt. 3:16–17. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matt. 28:19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 2 Cor. 13:14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. See Eph. 2:18. p. John 1:14, 18. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.… No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. See Heb. 1:2–3; Col. 1:15. q. John 15:26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. Gal. 4:6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Agreed. Agreed. Numerically that is 3 Agreed. Further emphasis on 3. The 3 divine personages make the 1 Godhead. Nothing here to disagree with. So, you agree with the Westminster Confession of Faith 2:3?
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 God never promised to make human beings god. Satan did, however.Genesis 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Incorrect, Satan said they would become as the gods, knowing good and evil. Then God comes down and confirms what the said by saying; "...behold the man has become as one of us". That is not Mormon Doctrine...that is God speaking, which is why it Mormon Doctrine.
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 God never promised to make human beings god. Satan did, however. Genesis 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Yet there is this scripture in Genesis 3 22 ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 3
Teancum Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The LORD God is One.The Father is God.The Son is God.The Spirit is God.The Father is not the Son.The Father is not the Spirit.The Son is not the Father.The Son is not the Spirit.The Spirit is not the Father.The Spirit is not the Son.The LORD God is One.Worship God.Worship the Father.Worship the Son.Worship the Spirit.Worship God.GreatMormons agree with all that except for the substance. And the essence....which is non biblical additions.
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