Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 So they believed that Jesus was a glorified exalted man with flesh and bones, but did not believe that God the Father was those things. That's interesting. Jesus is not exalted. Jesus has always been the second person of the Trinity.
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 ". . .I understand that your definition and understanding of Christ does not allow me under your definition of Christianity, and I am fine with that. There is no right definition for Christianity, It was a made up term in Antioch to categorize a group of people who professed a belief in Jesus and his teachings, before that it did not exist. Christ did not define it, man did. By redefining Christ through trinitarianism, they also redefined the original understanding of the word "Christian". . .""group of people who professed a belief in Jesus and his teachings" Your statement above is a pretty good definition. Christians believe in Jesus and his teachings--we believe what the Bible teaches--which is why we consider different branches of Christianity as Christian. Since Mormons fall outside of the teachings in the Bible we reject their claim to be Christian. "By redefining Christ through trinitarianism, they also redefined the original understanding of the word "Christian". . ." LDS often have a misunderstanding about Christian beliefs and the statement above is probable the most common thing that is brought up. For some reason LDS think that we take our beliefs from extra Biblical sources--as you have hinted above in your statement--but that is not true. Can explain what you mean exactly and tell me what beliefs you think that I have that are not supported by the Bible?
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The creator-creation dichotomy. We are creatures; we have been created. He is the creator. We can never be the creator because we have been created. A created can not create? I do not understand your reasoning here.
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Your own prophet says you believe in a different Jesus. Why should I take your word over President Hinckley Because in your arrogance you you do not realize that you have misinterpreted and misrepresent what President Hinkley was saying. Edited January 4, 2015 by ERayR 1
Popular Post ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Popular Post Posted January 4, 2015 Jesus is not exalted. Have you told him yet? 5
ERayR Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Since Mormons fall outside of the teachings in the Bible we reject their claim to be Christian. I think that decision is very far above your pay grade so pardon me if I do not put much credence in your proclamation. 1
Jim Stiles Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 A created can not create? I do not understand your reasoning here. Created beings can create things by taken existing materials (wood, stone, iron ore, coal, etc.,) and fashioning them into an artifact like sculptures or buildings. The Creator created the universe ex nihilo (out of nothing). Human beings cannot make things out of nothing because they are creations themselves. Even non-human creatures can make primitive tools to make their lives easier.
Bobbieaware Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Created beings can create things by taken existing materials (wood, stone, iron ore, coal, etc.,) and fashioning them into an artifact like sculptures or buildings. The Creator created the universe ex nihilo (out of nothing). Human beings cannot make things out of nothing because they are creations themselves. Even non-human creatures can make primitive tools to make their lives easier.We are taught by the Saviour that with God all things are possible. Ii light of the Lord's unqualified declaration, do you believe that God lacks the power and ability to endow saved men with his creative power. If your answer is yes, do you believe the Bible is inaccurate when it states that the sons of God will be joint heirs with Christ in ALL he has inherited from his Father?. Edited January 4, 2015 by Bobbieaware 2
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Because in your arrogance you you do not realize that you have misinterpreted and misrepresent what President Hinkley was saying.In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7) Here is the quote again. According to President Hinckley do LDS believe in the traditional Christ?
Flyonthewall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Here is your post #123 (my comments in red) Your own prophet says you believe in a different Jesus. Why should I take your word over President Hinckley In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7)I see you keep posting the words, but do you want to know what they mean? Take a look at all President Hinckley's teachings/sermons and you will get a better understanding. But of course you don't seem interested in that... I sure feel bad for you since you do not believe in THAT Jesus. I don't believe in the Mormon Jesus because he is a different Jesus.The "mormon" Jesus is from the Bible. So you now have declared you are not Christian. Good for you, for your honesty. You also must not believe in the Bible. I do believe in the Bible. Let me ask you if you believe in the Bible then why do your views on God and the gospel differ from what is taught in the Bible?My views on God are reflected in the Bible. I understand they do not agree with you, but that is okay - you have already declared you are not Christian. Since you do not believe in the bible False assertion END OF POSTIt is a true assertion because we believe the Bible, we believe in the Jesus as described in the Bible. You have declared you do not believe in the same Jesus we do so, therefore, you do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 According to President Hinckley do LDS believe in the traditional Christ? I am personally tired of beating around the bush on this. NO, I do not believe in the Christ of sectarian tradition. I do not believe in the Christ of the Nicene Creed. I do not believe in the Christ of the incomprehensible trinitarian doctrine. I do not believe such a being exists. I do believe in Jesus Christ the son of God the Father. I do believe he was perfect and without sin. I do believe he took upon himself my sins and then died to pay the price for them. I do believe he was the firstfruits of the resurrection and has power over death. If that makes people claim I'm not Christian, then so be it. I am 100% happy that the Christ I believe in is the actual Jesus Christ of the Bible regardless of what anyone thinks of my interpretation of the Bible. And I really don't care if anyone else says I am not Christian because I know better.And despite the 3 or 4 threads on this topic going right now there is absolutely no valid debate on the subject. 3
bluebell Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Jesus is not exalted. Jesus has always been the second person of the Trinity. You should probably let the other non-lds Christians know that then, because the people over at bible gateway claim He is- "The exaltation of Jesus Christ, first on the cross and then in his resurrection, provides a model of how God exalts the humble and obedient." Baker's Evangelical dictionary says- "In the Bible "exaltation" most often refers to the lofty position of God and of Jesus Christ" 3
Anakin7 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) We don't Believe in the Holy Bible ?, Do we not study the O.T, N.T on a 4 year rotation cycle in our Sunday Schools classes at Church throughout the world ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 4, 2015 by Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I see you keep posting the words, but do you want to know what they mean? President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. Do you believe that the above sentence doesn't mean what it actually says?
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The "mormon" Jesus is from the Bible. So you now have declared you are not Christian. Good for you, for your honesty.The Mormon Jesus was begotten and spiritually born to heavenly parents and raised to maturity--prior to this he existed as an intelligence. The Mormon Jesus is our spiritual brother These are just two differences. Are they supported by the Bible? Or are these ideas from extra Biblical sources?
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 My views on God are reflected in the Bible.Since you believe in many gods--which god are you referring to in your sentence above?
Anakin7 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 LDS from my Lights Believe In The Godhead - An Anchient Monarch Eastern Economic Social Godhead/Trinity In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 We don't Believe in the Holy Bible ?, Do we not study the O.T, N.T on a 4 year rotation cycle in our Sunday Schools classes at Church throughout the world ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7If you believe the Bible why aren't your teachings in line with what it says?
JLHPROF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 If you believe the Bible why aren't your teachings in line with what it says? Oh for the millionth time, Mormonism is 100% in line with the BIble. Just not with the sectarian interpretation of it.And there is no convincing each other. 1
Anakin7 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) We do Teach and live as what is contained in the Holy Bible Canadaigua. Which version ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 4, 2015 by Anakin7
bluebell Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Since you believe in many gods--which god are you referring to in your sentence above? Are you trying to be obtuse or are you sincerely still confused about this? LDS follow the first commandment, we have no other gods before God the Father. 1
Anakin7 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) It is not very Christian to Counterfiet our [ LDS ] Belief/Faith in The True and Living GOD as Worshipped and found in Holy Writ. http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1451&index=13 In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 4, 2015 by Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Are you trying to be obtuse or are you sincerely still confused about this? LDS follow the first commandment, we have no other gods before God the Father.But according to Mormonism the God of the OT is Jesus. Right? And what about the following verse in John 20. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Edited January 4, 2015 by Canadaigua
Canadaigua Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 We do Teach and live as what is contained in the Holy Bible Canadaigua. Which version ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7You know that is not true. The unique teachings of Mormonism are not found in the Bible. BTW why did you ask "Which version"?
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