Jim Stiles Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.
bluebell Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Psalms 82:6- "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." John 10: 33-36- "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" 4
Teancum Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I suggest the EVs here educate themselves a bit about their Bible. The article I link to below is not a scholarly piece but it is a fairly good layman's summary of Bible issues. It is simply a fact that early Israel was polytheistic, or perhaps better said Henotheistic. It really was the later penned fifth book of Moses, Deuteronomy and then later Isaiah, which moved the Israel to a more monotheistic scope.As far as Jesus being God and Trinitarian theology I suggest for Starters Bart Ehrman's book How Jesus Became God. Sorry EVers.... the oneness of Jesus with God and/or being God is just not in the Bible and the earliest Christians would never recognize your non biblical creeds. Here is the link: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/02/thats-not-what-bible-says-294018.html It is simply nonsense to call Mormons non Christian especially when one studies the Bible, its compilation, early Christianity and even the development of the theology of the OT. Yes Mormons are not what is now Orthodox Christianity but the LDS Church is well placed the Christian camp. And I don't have skin in the game really as I am critical of all religion to some extent at this point in my life. I am just asking that the players be honest and I don't see a lot of that in the attacks. 1
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I suggest the EVs here educate themselves a bit about their Bible. The article I link to below is not a scholarly piece but it is a fairly good layman's summary of Bible issues. It is simply a fact that early Israel was polytheistic, or perhaps better said Henotheistic. It really was the later penned fifth book of Moses, Deuteronomy and then later Isaiah, which moved the Israel to a more monotheistic scope.I am not sure that the Jews today would agree with you that God's word teaches polytheism. But I would like to here your argument.
Teancum Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I am not sure that the Jews today would agree with you that God's word teaches polytheism. But I would like to here your argument. I suggest you read the link I provided and then get the book How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman. There is a chapter in that book on the theological progression of Israel and lots of notes to other works. I don't really have interest in spending a lot of time educating someone on these things. Too much effort. But I am happy to let you know what I have read and if you want the education then you can pursue it.
thesometimesaint Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 The same reason that Mormons don't consider Evangelical Christians as Mormons. We believe in a different God and a different gospel. Non Sequitur. LDS don't consider Catholics as Evangelical Christians, but have consistently stated both are Christians.
Tacenda Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.But that was within that world. Take a look at the galaxies, would there be room for another capital G God?
danielwoods Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 But that was within that world. Take a look at the galaxies, would there be room for another capital G God? The answer is no for a couple reasons. God create all that exists. All, everything. There is nothing that exists, that he didn't create, except himself. The other reason is logical. Can there exist more than one infinite being that created all and everything that exists? Logically it doesn't work to posit more than one, unless God lied and didn't create all, and isn't an infinite being.
MiserereNobis Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Non Sequitur. LDS don't consider Catholics as Evangelical Christians, but have consistently stated both are Christians. Some EVs question whether or not Catholics are Christian. I'm even been told once I was part of a pagan cult, heh.
pogi Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Why would you get banned? It's not like we scratch out that verse in our bibles and condemn it to never be spoken. If there is one thing that I hope you EVs can take away from your time here is that you understand that WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME BIBLE YOU DO, we just INTERPRET it different. Rattling off a bunch of scriptures as proof is not going to convince ANYBODY. http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/%22No_God_beside_me%22 3
MiserereNobis Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Why would you get banned? It's not like we scratch out that verse in our bibles and condemn it to never be spoken. If there is one thing that I hope you EVs can take away from your time here is that you understand that WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME BIBLE YOU DO, we just INTERPRET it different. Rattling off a bunch of scriptures as proof is not going to convince ANYBODY. http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/%22No_God_beside_me%22 Which is exactly why a hierarchy endowed with God's authority to interpret, teach, and pass on the truth is necessary, right? 1
thesometimesaint Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Which is exactly why a hierarchy endowed with God's authority to interpret, teach, and pass on the truth is necessary, right? Yes; Though I would assume we disagree with whom is that hierarchy. Edited January 2, 2015 by thesometimesaint 3
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Some EVs question whether or not Catholics are Christian. I'm even been told once I was part of a pagan cult, heh.Join the club. Oh well.
ERayR Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens. Yes and....?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Here is to hoping that I do not get banned from this thread.Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.Oh my gosh. I have never seen that verse before. It proves that God is monothesitc. Oh wait it doesnt even do that. As you may know, or not, this verse is not about the oneness of God. Care to try again? BTW we are not CARM, you won't get banned here just for posting a scripture that you think backs up your point of view.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 You believe in many gods (polytheism). I believe that there is only one God (monotheism). Not so sure why you are having a hard time admitting that we believe in a different God, especially since your own leaders have affirmed this.You mean, that we believe in different things about God. It seems you cannot see beyong your own nose because of your narrowmindedness. It really is not a hard concept to get. Only a troll would not get this. 1
ERayR Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 You believe in many gods (polytheism). I believe that there is only one God (monotheism). Not so sure why you are having a hard time admitting that we believe in a different God, especially since your own leaders have affirmed this. How would you know what I believe?
thesometimesaint Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How would you know what I believe? Because his minister told him. 1
ERayR Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Because his minister told him. I must be getting forgetful as I do not remember telling his minister what I believe.
thesometimesaint Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I must be getting forgetful as I do not remember telling his minister what I believe. Old age does that to us. but I highly doubt you did tell his minister what you believe,
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 CanadaiguaThe same reason that Mormons don't consider Evangelical Christians as Mormons. We believe in a different God and a different gospel. thesometimesaintNon Sequitur. LDS don't consider Catholics as Evangelical Christians, but have consistently stated both are Christians.You didn't address what I said. Do you consider EV Christians as Mormons?
pogi Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) You didn't address what I said. Yes he did, he said it is non sequitur...and it is. Do you consider EV Christians as Mormons? What does this have to do with anything? It is entirely non sequitur as those are branches of Christianity, of course we don't consider you Mormon. Do you consider all 50,000 branches of Christianity (denominations) as EV Christian? Would you consider the original Christians of Antioch EV Christians? Guess what, they were not even trinitarians, so according to your made-up guidelines, the original Christians were not even Christian. "Trinitarians sometimes refer to Christian belief about God before the traditional statements on the Trinity as unsophisticated, 'naive',[5] or 'incipient Trinitarianism'" (M. Turner and G. McFarlane, 'Trinity' in I. H. Marshall (ed.), et al., New Bible Dictionary (3rd edn), electronic edition) Edited January 2, 2015 by pogi
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How would you know what I believe? My post that you are quoting (post #122) was addressed to Flyonthewall--not you. Perhaps it was just an oversight on your part.
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 What does this have to do with anything? It has everything to do with the discussion. Do you consider Christians (Catholics, EV etc.) as Mormons?
Canadaigua Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Do you consider all 50,000 branches of Christianity (denominations) as EV Christian? Not at all but I consider many different branches Christian. Yet I do not consider Mormons as Christian. Why not? The same reason that Mormons don't consider these other branches that you mentioned as Mormon.
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