Women At The Priesthood Session...again?

[Pahoran]

What would you suggest? Have them tear gassed?

Tear gas? Oh, heavens no.

Just tell them it isn't all about them, and they'll be sobbing wrecks for weeks.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

I think that there should be no men at the General Women's Meeting and that the General Relief Society Presidency should preside and conduct. Likewise, I agree with DavidT. Rename it the General Men's meeting and no women are to be there either.

I've thought about that option, but we're on a hiding to nothing going down that road. Do that exactly once, and the feminists will start bleating that the evil patriarchy doesn't care enough to bother showing up.

Regards,

Pahoran

[SamIam]

 

Up until shortly after the middle of the Twentieth Century, women were understood to be able to perform healing blessings as part of exercising the spiritual gift of healing, by virtue and authority of their Baptism and Confirmation.

 

 

CFR - I need a source for this statement..."by virtue and authority of their baptism and confirmation".  I think that is a very important distinction between what I understood what the criteria for their exercise of healing blessings.  A credible source would enable me to alter my thinking on the subject. Thanks in advance.

[The Nehor]

This reminds me of reading about the women's movement in the 19th century. All that is missing is the smoky rooms with men sitting in over stuffed chairs, drinking whiskey and smoking expensive cigars. Pitiful.

Yeah, those were good times. Now you can't get good whiskey or a good cigar anywhere.

[EllenMaksoud]

Yeah, those were good times. Now you can't get good whiskey or a good cigar anywhere.

You know Mormon men can putz around all they want. I can not tell you how many women have told me that the reason men have the priesthood is to give them something to do so they do not just sit around. This is a new view from me because I can not say that Genesis 3:16 does not exist and until recently I was at peace with that. But then a couple men had to get abusive about it, and say demeaning things to me and other women in my hearing.  It is absolutely despicable that a man, any man would attempt to "Lord it over a woman" any woman.

 

Our not having the priesthood has nothing to do with the supposed superiority of men, and the next man to say something like that within my reach ...

[Kenngo1969]

What happened to just trusting God's order of things, regardless of logical justifications?  Do we trust our logic more than we trust God?  It's not really having faith in God, or in his prophets, if we put our own logic ahead of everything else.  Sometimes I think we are asked to do illogical things just as a test to see if we can trust something outside of ourselves.  

Yes, the priesthood is wonderful, but there are lessons to be learned with and without it, so it is ok not to have it... Many do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost, that is how God has set it up, and they are progressing on their journey just as we are progressing on ours... some people have not been baptized with the proper authority - does this mean they are damned? or lesser than us? No, it does not.  It does not matter who you are, or what you have or do not have, there are lessons within it all.

Love your first paragraph, Changed.  Can I quote it on my blog?  (I'll even be pleased to give you IRL attribution on my blog, if you want it.  PM me. )

[Kenngo1969]

I think "repugnant" might be more appropriate. At least you didn't have to live through it : )

 

We really do live in a very unique and fragile time. Let's hope when civilization begins to unravel, the pendulum doesn't swing too far in the opposite direction ... [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969]

Uhhhh ... When?

[slamarwi]

I'm sure I don't know, but I do know there are other threads that have the answer. 

[SamIam]

There are some interesting ordinance-related precedents in the Church that could theoretically allow women to participate in saving ordinances without ordination proper. Just as set apart female Temple Workers perform the ordinances of the initiatories 'under proper authority', as well as personally present key parts of the Endowment to patrons through the keys of the Temple President.

 

It should then theoretically, then, be possible for set apart Sister Missionaries (at the least) to be authorized to perform saving ordinances such as Baptism through the keys of their Mission President.

 

The argument, 'well, that's how it practically HAS to be for initiatories' doesn't really work, because it shows the ability of women to perform what are seen as saving/exalting ordinances is not apparently seen as a problem by the Lord. 

 

The role of a Deacon is passing the Sacrament is not set out in scripture as a Priesthood-officer-only repsonsibility, as can be seen by the trays being practically passed by the men and women in the congregation down the rows.

 

Up until shortly after the middle of the Twentieth Century, women were understood to be able to perform healing blessings as part of exercising the spiritual gift of healing, by virtue and authority of their Baptism and Confirmation.

 

While none of these would involve the bestowal of keys (one of the , well, 'key issues' when it comes to the idea of equality, and the ability to lead and preside in the Church), it shows that there are ways already present, without a need to have a revelation changing Doctrine within the Church, to allow for more participation of women in physically exercising and participating in what are seen as Priesthood Ordinances.

 

I don't think there's much of a chance of new revelation or doctrinal shifts coming until all of the arenas currently doctrinally permitted, but culturally prohibited, have been explored and taken advantage of.

 

David T. I posted earlier requesting a CFR on this statement from the post above, "by virtue and authority of their Baptism and Confirmation." I was hoping you could point me in the direction of the source.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SamIam

[SamIam]

David T. I posted earlier requesting a CFR on this statement from the post above, "by virtue and authority of their Baptism and Confirmation." I was hoping you could point me in the direction of the source.

 

 

DT - 3rd Request.  I'm not sure why but you have not been forthcoming on the CFR request.  Please address the request.

[Calm]

Maybe he isn't reading the thread anymore.

[bluebell]

DT - 3rd Request.  I'm not sure why but you have not been forthcoming on the CFR request.  Please address the request.

 

Private message him.

 

I know that i often stop participating or even checking on threads i was previously active in if they start to lose interest for me.  Sometimes i even just plain forget that I was having a conversation.

 

Just PM him and you'll know for certain that he's actually aware of your latests posts.

[SamIam]

Private message him.

 

I know that i often stop participating or even checking on threads i was previously active in if they start to lose interest for me.  Sometimes i even just plain forget that I was having a conversation.

 

Just PM him and you'll know for certain that he's actually aware of your latests posts.

Thanks for the suggestion...will do.

[Stargazer]

You know Mormon men can putz around all they want. I can not tell you how many women have told me that the reason men have the priesthood is to give them something to do so they do not just sit around. This is a new view from me because I can not say that Genesis 3:16 does not exist and until recently I was at peace with that. But then a couple men had to get abusive about it, and say demeaning things to me and other women in my hearing.  It is absolutely despicable that a man, any man would attempt to "Lord it over a woman" any woman.

 

Our not having the priesthood has nothing to do with the supposed superiority of men, and the next man to say something like that within my reach ...

 

I am so glad I don't live where you live. 

[EllenMaksoud]

I am so glad I don't live where you live. 

It was actually on line. The people in my ward have been absolutely brill to me and I respect them quite a lot. It has actually happened more than once on Facebook and the offense was by Mormon men and caused me to almost completely withdraw from my activities on that media.  It is actually exhausting to spend as much time on line talking about religious matters as I was. The break from it is quite pleasant. These days on Mormondialogue, I only respond when spoken to.

 

I have returned to full time writing and none of it save one story will be about Mormons, and it is quite complementary, though implausible.  In September I will publish a Science Fiction Anthology on Amazon, hopefully. Yes, there are Utah publishers but it is doubtful that they ... What ever.

 

It has been quite nice getting to know some of you .

[Calm]

"the offense was by Mormon men"

 

While there are LDS who are way over the top in their treatment of women (one known demented soul sent a death threat), it has been known for individuals to pose as Mormons and come across as ultraconversative and not too nice in their treatment of women and others.  It has happened on this board a number of times.  Be cautious in assuming anyone is who they say they are if you don't know them in real life.

[EllenMaksoud]

"the offense was by Mormon men"

 

While there are LDS who are way over the top in their treatment of women (one known demented soul sent a death threat), it has been known for individuals to pose as Mormons and come across as ultraconversative and not too nice in their treatment of women and others.  It has happened on this board a number of times.  Be cautious in assuming anyone is who they say they are if you don't know them in real life.

Most people I know think that I am this tough, wizened woman, but in truth ... Death threats are not worth it. Now, to my face ...

[EllenMaksoud]

I just saw an interview and story about how "Ordain Women" is once again planning to attend the Priesthood Session. Only this time with twice as many women. How many more sessions will we have to endure the supposed "faithful" female members crashing Priesthood before some type of action occurs to deter it?

“I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been.”

 William Golding.

[thesometimesaint]

“I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been.”

 William Golding.

 

Being put on a pedestal just leads to pigeon droppings.

[Tacenda]

“I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been.”

William Golding.

That's why they need the Priesthood. Atleast that's what my mom would say to me, even when I could care less.

[bluebell]

That's why they need the Priesthood. Atleast that's what my mom would say to me, even when I could care less.

I don't really get this argument.

It might make more sense if we believed that the priesthood exists only in our temporal world and as a part of mortality. But believing as we do that it is the power which God used to make the universe and still uses to govern it, how does it make sense to imply that it is bestowed as a way to shore up weakness?

[Tacenda]

I don't really get this argument.

It might make more sense if we believed that the priesthood exists only in our temporal world and as a part of mortality. But believing as we do that it is the power which God used to make the universe and still uses to govern it, how does it make sense to imply that it is bestowed as a way to shore up weakness?

I probably should have prefaced that my mom would say women have babies, and the men needed something just as significant.  So, sort of that logic, but not really. 

[EllenMaksoud]

That's why they need the Priesthood. Atleast that's what my mom would say to me, even when I could care less.

Women are beyond the priesthood. We hold it all together, dry all the tears, make all the dumb plans work, bring excitement into the dull, pitiful, boring lives of monolitic men. It has hurt me a lot when some very few men have put me down, acted superior, and bullied me. It is freeing to realize that anyone that would do that to another is deeply insecure, and weak. When he used to yell at me, beat me unconscious and mentally abuse me. He was the weak one. Today, I have Smith and Wesson.

 

References to guns will not be permitted. The topic is women at the priesthood session, please take personal matters to Social Hall.

[Senator]

Women are beyond the priesthood. We hold it all together, dry all the tears, make all the dumb plans work, bring excitement into the dull, pitiful, boring lives of monolitic men.

 

 

I've actually got to give you a rep point for that line!